Jets - General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation 14-15 Part XI

[Teemusalami204]

I've always thought about how important getting rid of Kane was. His contract would act as a benchmark with other players ( Ladd , Frolik , etc )

Imagine what Ladd's agent would say about Kane's contract and his production and what he brings to the team. There's a pretty good argument that Ladd would be worth a lot more then Kane , Frolik as well IMO .

Having Kanes contract while he isn't living up to it would make us pay a lot more for players that do just as much or more for the team.

Off ice antics and attitude aside. Kane not living up to his contract and the effect on future signings had to be a huge reason why he was traded as well. Opinions guys ?

 

[sully1410]

I've always thought about how important getting rid of Kane was. His contract would act as a benchmark with other players ( Ladd , Frolik , etc )

Imagine what Ladd's agent would say about Kane's contract and his production and what he brings to the team. There's a pretty good argument that Ladd would be worth a lot more then Kane , Frolik as well IMO .

Having Kanes contract while he isn't living up to it would make us pay a lot more for players that do just as much or more for the team.

Off ice antics and attitude aside. Kane not living up to his contract and the effect on future signings had to be a huge reason why he was traded as well. Opinions guys ?

It could have played a part, but there are other bench marks that I think are more important. Eg.) Wheeler and Little.

 

[Teemusalami204]

It could have played a part, but there are other bench marks that I think are more important. Eg.) Wheeler and Little.

That is true as well, thanks!

 

[AWSAA]

I've always thought about how important getting rid of Kane was. His contract would act as a benchmark with other players ( Ladd , Frolik , etc )

Imagine what Ladd's agent would say about Kane's contract and his production and what he brings to the team. There's a pretty good argument that Ladd would be worth a lot more then Kane , Frolik as well IMO .

Having Kanes contract while he isn't living up to it would make us pay a lot more for players that do just as much or more for the team.

Off ice antics and attitude aside. Kane not living up to his contract and the effect on future signings had to be a huge reason why he was traded as well. Opinions guys ?

Chevy was forced to sell low on Kane because he & the coaching staff chose an older/inferior player in Ladd over him. Facts are Evander was the better prospect coming out of junior, had 100+ more points in the NHL by 23. Shudder to think what the differential will be over the next 10 years.

Have always felt Ladd's leadership was overrated being credited for 2 Stanley Cups where he played little factor in the runs. 27 of 29 opposing teams will have qualified for the playoffs since he took the C.

Now Ladd's one year away from UFA, will be 30 next season. It's going to cost us upwards 6.5-7+ million over 5 or more years to retain him.

 

[Mathmew Purrrr Oh]

Chevy was forced to sell low on Kane because he & the coaching staff chose an older/inferior player in Ladd over him. Facts are Evander was the better prospect coming out of junior, had 100+ more points in the NHL by 23. Shudder to think what the differential will be over the next 10 years.

Have always felt Ladd's leadership was overrated being credited for 2 Stanley Cups where he played little factor in the runs. 27 of 29 opposing teams will have qualified for the playoffs since he took the C.

Now Ladd's one year away from UFA, will be 30 next season. It's going to cost us upwards 6.5-7+ million over 5 or more years to retain him.

Ladd is/has been a top 10 LW in the league and is in no way inferior to Kane.

The "problem" with Kane was coaches/management refusing to play him with at least an average 2C/2RW for any length of time.

 

[KingBogo]

Ladd is/has been a top 10 LW in the league and is in no way inferior to Kane.

The "problem" with Kane was coaches/management refusing to play him with at least an average 2C/2RW for any length of time.

Agreed. As of today Ladd is a more effective player then Kane. I don't know if Kane will develop into much more then he is now. He likely doesn't age as well as Ladd either. When Kane's speed starts to go he likely becomes ineffectual because he hasn't added a lot else to his game.

 

[Koonta]

Chevy was forced to sell low on Kane because he & the coaching staff chose an older/inferior player in Ladd over him. Facts are Evander was the better prospect coming out of junior, had 100+ more points in the NHL by 23. Shudder to think what the differential will be over the next 10 years.

Have always felt Ladd's leadership was overrated being credited for 2 Stanley Cups where he played little factor in the runs. 27 of 29 opposing teams will have qualified for the playoffs since he took the C.

Now Ladd's one year away from UFA, will be 30 next season. It's going to cost us upwards 6.5-7+ million over 5 or more years to retain him.

Kane dreams of being the player Andrew Ladd is. Thank God they chose to play Ladd over Kane, talk about the right choice. Facts are Andrew Ladd is a better player than Evander Kane.

To me it looks like they didn't really sell low on Kane at all, early returns are looking like Myers may be the best player in that deal. The differential on that may be huge over the next 10 years.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Chevy was forced to sell low on Kane because he & the coaching staff chose an older/inferior player in Ladd over him. Facts are Evander was the better prospect coming out of junior, had 100+ more points in the NHL by 23. Shudder to think what the differential will be over the next 10 years.

Have always felt Ladd's leadership was overrated being credited for 2 Stanley Cups where he played little factor in the runs. 27 of 29 opposing teams will have qualified for the playoffs since he took the C.

Now Ladd's one year away from UFA, will be 30 next season. It's going to cost us upwards 6.5-7+ million over 5 or more years to retain him.

How did it ever become a choice between Ladd and Kane?

 

[sully1410]

Now Ladd's one year away from UFA, will be 30 next season. It's going to cost us upwards 6.5-7+ million over 5 or more years to retain him.

No it won't. I would be surprised if he made more then both wheeler and little by that amount. My guess is 6years at 5.5mil a year.

And Chevy did not sell low on Kane. He got more then good value considering that Bobby Ryan returned an NHL ready prospect and a top ten first.

I think we can all agree that Ryan> Kane. So Kanes return of a late first, a prospect that's close to bring ready, another prospect, and a rental.

Even if you make it rental, armia and a 1st for Kane and myers + lemieux for Bogo...that's still a crazy over payment.

 

[DEANYOUNGBLOOD17]

Chevy was forced to sell low on Kane because he & the coaching staff chose an older/inferior player in Ladd over him. Facts are Evander was the better prospect coming out of junior, had 100+ more points in the NHL by 23. Shudder to think what the differential will be over the next 10 years.

Have always felt Ladd's leadership was overrated being credited for 2 Stanley Cups where he played little factor in the runs. 27 of 29 opposing teams will have qualified for the playoffs since he took the C.

Now Ladd's one year away from UFA, will be 30 next season. It's going to cost us upwards 6.5-7+ million over 5 or more years to retain him.

I think you are quite high on your estimate on Ladd s next contract. Three comparables show a 5 yr contract btw 5.4-5.8 mill is more than enough and maybe on the high side.

Wheeler...WPG....6 yrs ....5.7 mill

Dubinski,,,, Columbus ....5.8 mill

Folingno Columbus.......5.5 mill

edit ,,,add ,,,, Ryan Callahan..... Tampa Bay ....5.8 mill

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Ladd is a very good player but if he wants 6.5 7 million a year, he can go away pretty much cuz he might be good but he's not elite.

 

[Teemusalami204]

Ladd is a very good player but if he wants 6.5 7 million a year, he can go away pretty much cuz he might be good but he's not elite.

That's why I feel not having Kane's contract here will help us with Ladd's negotiations.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

I don't think any team would give ladd 6.5 7 million a year. I don't really think Kane being gone makes a difference.

 

[Teemusalami204]

I don't think any team would give ladd 6.5 7 million a year. I don't really think Kane being gone makes a difference.

IMO Ladd would not want to make the same or less then Kane. He scores a lot more points , hits just as much , is better on the power play and is the captain. As well as being a leader.

There is no way he would be happy to make less then him. Nor would he let his agent accept a contract less then his

Now that he is gone I bet Ladd takes something around little or wheelers contract. And maybe Walsh was using Kane's contract as a benchmark for Frolik as well

 

[allan5oh]

Ladd is 8th in LW scoring. He would be highly coveted and would be on the 1st line on the majority of teams.

 

[Gm0ney]

I don't think any team would give ladd 6.5 7 million a year. I don't really think Kane being gone makes a difference.

He's a Top 10 LW in the NHL. Plays big minutes in all situations (20:05 minutes a night puts him at 9th for forwards). Captain of the team. Two Stanley Cups. I think he could name his price as a UFA. A lot of teams would be interested in him in the $6.5 - $7 million range.

 

[sully1410]

He's a Top 10 LW in the NHL. Plays big minutes in all situations (20:05 minutes a night puts him at 9th for forwards). Captain of the team. Two Stanley Cups. I think he could name his price as a UFA. A lot of teams would be interested in him in the $6.5 - $7 million range.

If Dave Bolland can get 5.5 and Clarkson can get 5.2 etc. Ladd can get 6.5-7 in the free market. Will he? i don't think so. He re-sign with the team in the off season for around wheelers money and call it a day. I'd even be willing to front load it so he gets a good chunk of money up front while he's still effective and scale it down as he gets older.

 

[GJF]

Frontload it and give him 6.5 AAV over 4 years. very fair value if people like it or not.

 

[Evil Little]

Upgrades over Jim Slater:

I would wish Slater the absolute best of luck wherever he goes, but in my mind he's the weakest link on the fourth line right now (in part because all of the PK time he gets).

I also think there's no chance in Hell that Maurice is going to give the 4C spot to a rookie (a la O'Dell, if he chose to re-sign), so the only hope for a Slater upgrade would be a vet. If Maurice has any influence I think it has to be penalty killing face-off specialist.

What options are out there for that role? Marcus Krüger? Chris Kelly?

Could we trade Pavelec for an upgrade with a bad contract, thus coming out even?

 

[Bob E]

I think Ladd should be $6 mill over 5 yrs. I wouldn't want the Jets to go much higher, tbh.

The bigger issue for me is, will he want to sign? Let's say the Jets miss the playoffs, will he want to put his name on a multi-year deal or test FA? In FA, he'd be able to pick a franchise he sees as being a cup contender even if it meant taking less money. Maybe he wants to go back to the Hawks, maybe the Pens come calling, or even Montreal.

It would be very difficult to not test FA if the Jets miss the playoffs again, imo.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

No it won't. I would be surprised if he made more then both wheeler and little by that amount. My guess is 6years at 5.5mil a year.

And Chevy did not sell low on Kane. He got more then good value considering that Bobby Ryan returned an NHL ready prospect and a top ten first.

I think we can all agree that Ryan> Kane. So Kanes return of a late first, a prospect that's close to bring ready, another prospect, and a rental.

Even if you make it rental, armia and a 1st for Kane and myers + lemieux for Bogo...that's still a crazy over payment.

Whether Chevy sold low or was over-payed is highly debatable right now. It depends on how the futures turn out and there is still room for a great deal of doubt about that. Breaking the deal into parts might make sense if we make it Myers for Bogo but really I don't think it can be broken apart like that. Lemieux for Bogo? Please! Even if Lemieux were to hit his ceiling that would be a terrible trade.

If we agree with your assessment of what we got it is a good trade but how about we got a rental + a prospect close to being an AHL lifer + a prospect who is a headcase + a 25th OA pick? I'm not saying that Armia and Lemieux turn out that badly but I wouldn't be surprised at all if they end up being the upgrade to our 4th line and no more. By itself that is not a bad thing if we get them a decent centre. And if that 25th pick can be a 2nd line F or 2nd pair D we will have done well enough but it is way too soon to start declaring Chevy a genius for that trade even though Bogo for Myers straight up looks like a win for us so far.

 

[Bob E]

I'm starting to get a bad feeling about Frolik resigning this summer.

If the Jets miss the playoffs, there's a pretty decent chance many of the UFAs walk. Making the playoffs could give them a big reason to stick around with a close team that is a playoff contender. Not getting there may have guys looking elsewhere where consistently making the playoffs is more likely.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

If Dave Bolland can get 5.5 and Clarkson can get 5.2 etc. Ladd can get 6.5-7 in the free market. Will he? i don't think so. He re-sign with the team in the off season for around wheelers money and call it a day. I'd even be willing to front load it so he gets a good chunk of money up front while he's still effective and scale it down as he gets older.

Frontload it and give him 6.5 AAV over 4 years. very fair value if people like it or not.

I think Ladd will want at least 6 years and it easily could be more. Frontloading is somewhat restricted now but still possible. I think I recall something about not slipping by more than 10%/yr. Not sure of that. 6 years starting at ~7 mil and then tapering off 10%/yr in the last 4 years to an AAV of ~6 mil is my guess. That would = an AAV of 5.95 mil and pay him 4.6 mil in the last year when he would be 36.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Upgrades over Jim Slater:

I would wish Slater the absolute best of luck wherever he goes, but in my mind he's the weakest link on the fourth line right now (in part because all of the PK time he gets).

I also think there's no chance in Hell that Maurice is going to give the 4C spot to a rookie (a la O'Dell, if he chose to re-sign), so the only hope for a Slater upgrade would be a vet. If Maurice has any influence I think it has to be penalty killing face-off specialist.

What options are out there for that role? Marcus Krüger? Chris Kelly?

Could we trade Pavelec for an upgrade with a bad contract, thus coming out even?

The bold is not impossible but it is unlikely. a)I don't think Pav is going anywhere for another year. b)That bad contract would have to be the right length and the right player. Tough combination. Good idea just not likely.

Chicago would want a prospect or pick for Kruger, probably a better one than he would be worth. Kelly might fit but what would we give Boston?

I think the UFA market should be a better place to look.

 

[sully1410]

Frontload it and give him 6.5 AAV over 4 years. very fair value if people like it or not.

How much are you front loading it if Ladd will still have a cap hit of 6.5mil?