Jersey Retirement thread

[MXD]

I think the jersey retirement should be a very exclusive club. We have HOFers who are excluded from it. I don't think either Markov or Koivu really belongs. I'm not even sure I'd have Lemaire in there and his career is far more prestigious than either of those two.

Joliat and Blake should've been in long ago. Apart from them there are some HOFers who I'd consider but that's about it.

I guess there COULD be a case for Markov, but it really passes by a Cup (and quite a few additionnal seasons). And we'd all understand he'd not be what I call a "first tier" retiree (which would be the Morenz, Beliveau, Richard, Harvey and Lafleur, with possibly Dryden if I feel generous).

I don't think a cup should be a pre-requisite. A HOF slot is though. If you aren't in the HOF then I don't think you should get your jersey retired here.

Tenure is quite important as well. Frank Mahovlich was absolutely crucial for the 71 and 73 Cups (probably the most important skater for those two Cups), and all in all a better player than quite a few players who have their jersey retired. But no one gets their jersey retired in Montreal with only 3 seasons and a half.

 

[Tighthead]

Who would you unretire for the Habs?
I mean, there are four guys for whom it's possible to make a case :

- Butch Bouchard
- Guy Lapointe
- Yvan Cournoyer
- Bob Gainey

I would be fine with none of those guys getting it with the exception of Gainey. If you yank Pointu you can likely cut the Senator out as well. I could be swayed on Boom Boom as well. I don't recall any clamour in the 70s and 80s to add him.

They are all great players, but the bar used to be insanely high - Harvey, Beliveau, Richards, Lafleur, Larry etc. Part of what makes the honour great is leaving out very good players and not lowering the standard.

 

[MXD]

I would be fine with none of those guys getting it with the exception of Gainey. If you yank Pointu you can likely cut the Senator out as well. I could be swayed on Boom Boom as well. I don't recall any clamour in the 70s and 80s to add him.

They are all great players, but the bar used to be insanely high - Harvey, Beliveau, Richards, Lafleur, Larry etc. Part of what makes the honour great is leaving out very good players and not lowering the standard.

Geoffrion? Geez, that's harsh standards. A clear Top-100 player in NHL history.

Pointu makes it on the Big-3 Clause. That's probably enough in and of itself.

 

[Tighthead]

Geoffrion? Geez, that's harsh standards. A clear Top-100 player in NHL history.

Pointu makes it on the Big-3 Clause. That's probably enough in and of itself.

I said if you cut Pointu you cut Serge. I'm fine with that.

Harsh standards worked for years.

 

[le_sean]

This franchise already has too many retired jerseys. I mean Bob Gainey? Dickie Moore? Really? These type of honours should be left for the best of the best, players that transcend. Like Beliveau and the Rocket.

I guess it could be worse. We don't have Stan Smyl or Glen Wesley up there.

 

[MXD]

This franchise already has too many retired jerseys. I mean Bon Gainey? Dickie Moore? Really? These type of honours should be left for the best of the best, players that transcend. Like Beliveau and the Rocket.

I guess it could be worse. We don't have Stan Smyl or Glen Wesley up there.

I'd have no issue cutting Dickie Moore...
He's just really not the first guy I'd list (and he might actually be the last I'd list, well, him or Geoffrion or Roy).

 

[MXD]

I said if you cut Pointu you cut Serge. I'm fine with that.

Harsh standards worked for years.

Again, if you inretire Geoffrion, you probably have to unretire 2/3 of the jerseys. Which is fine if that's what you actually want to do.

It's just that, a bit like with Dickie Moore, Geoffrion is one of the last guys I'd like for this. Not the first.

 

[Tighthead]

Again, if you inretire Geoffrion, you probably have to unretire 2/3 of the jerseys. Which is fine if that's what you actually want to do.

It's just that, a bit like with Dickie Moore, Geoffrion is one of the last guys I'd like for this. Not the first.

If Geoffrion was such a slam dunk why was there such a delay in retiring the number? I know he made the 100 greatest, but for years he was like Cournoyer - just not quite there.

Moore I have no problem with. I think we are basically on the same page with a few quibbles. At some point they started to relax the standard, and it feels a little watered down. Looking at the chronology they started going back in 2005. I would be fine with only Moore, Robinson, Roy and Dryden of these modern inductions. For a guy like Lach, he retired in 1954. Retiring it 50 years later means it was either a gross oversight or a relaxing of the standard. I guess the same argument could be made for Moore and we all draw the line in a different spot.

Roy is the only player since the 1979 winning team who merits retirement in my opinion, and nobody else is even close. Markov, Koivu, Carbo etc.

 

[Stive Morgan]

Honestly, I'd like to see Markov's jersey retired. Entire career spent with Montreal (most likely) and being 2nd in all time points among Canadiens defensemen is no easy task.

 

[le_sean]

Lemaire and Blake. How is Lemaire not a slam dunk?

See that's the slippery slope of retiring so many jerseys. If Cournoyer is retired, then you have to retire Lemaire. They had similar careers.

Same with Toe Blake. How can Lach be up there and not him?

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

I hate to give the Leafs any credit but I've always felt their approach to honoring past players made more sense than ours. Retiring an actual number should be an extremely rare, prestigious honor that you only bestow on the few guys who unquestionably defined their particular era. Giving the same treatment to everybody has really devalued the whole process. Objectively, only 1-2-4-7-9-10 and arguably 33 should be retired forever, the rest should have been simply honored with a banner.

 

[Toene]

Lemaire, won 8 cups with MTL, played entire career here, almost PPG, and was the first selke like forward. HOF in 84'. Top 100 player. What is he missing? Guys like Bouchard, Lach, Moore, have not been better.

Honestly I 100% agree with you I dont understand why Lemaire doesnt already have his jersey retired as he's the best centerman in Habs history after Béliveau.

 

[hototogisu]

I hate to give the Leafs any credit but I've always felt their approach to honoring past players made more sense than ours. Retiring an actual number should be an extremely rare, prestigious honor that you only bestow on the few guys who unquestionably defined their particular era. Giving the same treatment to everybody has really devalued the whole process. Objectively, only 1-2-4-7-9-10 and arguably 33 should be retired forever, the rest should have been simply honored with a banner.

Except the Leafs actually did retire all of those "honored" numbers at the start of this season.

 

[MXD]

Honestly I 100% agree with you I dont understand why Lemaire doesnt already have his jersey retired as he's the best centerman in Habs history after Béliveau.

...and Howie Morenz. And Elmer Lach. And Henri Richard.

 

[Toene]

...and Howie Morenz. And Elmer Lach. And Henri Richard.

Imo Lemaire could be argued over any of these guys but just the fact he is in the same conversation means he should be strongly considered.

I shouldve said post-expansion but imo it gives him a better case : he's the best center we've had since then.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

Except the Leafs actually did retire all of those "honored" numbers at the start of this season.

I know, I was talking about the old way they did it. I feel it was dumb to change it .

 

[Tighthead]

I know, I was talking about the old way they did it. I feel it was dumb to change it .

I liked the honoured system, I also felt it was part of their club history/culture. Now they are the same as everyone else.

 

[Chili]

I hate to give the Leafs any credit but I've always felt their approach to honoring past players made more sense than ours. Retiring an actual number should be an extremely rare, prestigious honor that you only bestow on the few guys who unquestionably defined their particular era. Giving the same treatment to everybody has really devalued the whole process. Objectively, only 1-2-4-7-9-10 and arguably 33 should be retired forever, the rest should have been simply honored with a banner.

I thought the Leafs got it right too, but they joined the rest. Too bad.

Because of all the retired numbers it has diminished the honour for me.

It is similiar to the lower bar (that I perceive) to enter the HHOF.

And Toe Blake not being honoured? How many bigger NHL legends are there?

I do think of Blake when I see #6 skating out there on whoever is wearing it, as I think of others like Shutt (22), Lemaire (25), Mahovlichs (20 and 27), etc.

A ring of honour with truly great contributions to the team (which would definitely include the names in the poll like Koivu and Markov) would be my preference with only a few 'retired' jerseys.

 

[MXD]

Imo Lemaire could be argued over any of these guys but just the fact he is in the same conversation means he should be strongly considered.

I shouldve said post-expansion but imo it gives him a better case : he's the best center we've had since then.

The thing is, I can put David Desharnais in the same conversation, too. That wouldn't make him "part of the conversation".

 

[MXD]

I thought the Leafs got it right too, but they joined the rest. Too bad.

Because of all the retired numbers it has diminished the honour for me.

It is similiar to the lower bar (that I perceive) to enter the HHOF.

And Toe Blake not being honoured? How many bigger NHL legends are there?

I do think of Blake when I see #6 skating out there on whoever is wearing it, as I think of others like Shutt (22), Lemaire (25), Mahovlichs (20 and 27), etc.

A ring of honour with truly great contributions to the team (which would definitely include the names in the poll like Koivu and Markov) would be my preference with only a few 'retired' jerseys.

Frank Mahovlich was absolutely huge, but...
He played 3 seasons and a half with the Habs.

 

[Chili]

Frank Mahovlich was absolutely huge, but...
He played 3 seasons and a half with the Habs.

Not suggesting to retire 27.

But I would honour Frank Mahovlich, he is a Habs legend in my opinion.

His time with the Habs was not long but very impactful, if you remember the 1971 and 1973 Cups.

When I see 27 out there, I do think of him.

 

[Galchenioretty]

I don't think a Cup is required and I also don't get why people think it's such an affront to retire a simply good/v good player's number who meant a lot to the city organization. It's doesn't have to be a Habs HoF, qualifications are arbitrary. I'm not pro Saku or Markov being retired personally but if you think that, say Saku's contributions off the ice makes him the most exemplary example of what a Hab should be and should stand for in the last 30-40 years, why not retire it?

With that said, I don't get why they don't do a tiered system, some jerseys deserve to be honored with only a very, very small handful permanently retired (4, 7, 9, 10 for example). The rest can have a banner and just be recirculated, Leaf style. I love a lot of the guys retired but there's no way some of those numbers should be forever out of circulation. Then we can stop the silly debate about worthiness and just honour the right guys. They've already gone too far and retired too many numbers. The meaning isn't the same when you're retiring guy's numbers 40+ years after they retired. All of the sudden they're worthy?

 

[Mrb1p]

I dont see the point od retiring dead people numbers, especially Joliat and Lalonde.

Obviously they deserved it, but its too late.

Lalonde has been dead for 50 years now... Even if he had kids theyre probably dead too.


Vezina is an all time great, but hes been dead almost a century FFS

 

[Toene]

The thing is, I can put David Desharnais in the same conversation, too. That wouldn't make him "part of the conversation".

Nice strawman.

 

[DAChampion]

Jersey retirement should only be left to the absolute best of best.

How about Gainey and Lapointe?