OT: Jeff Gorton Performance + Team Direction

[Svenhart2008]

Problem is, do we anticipate a full on tank with Shestyorkin?

This team has a blessing and a curse with all of the excellent goaltenders of the past, present and future.

 

[Lays]

I dont understand people saying he needs to find an elite player
1. Gorton doesn't scout prospects himself, thats what our scouting department is for
2. We're not even a year into the "technical" rebuild. Before last TDL we were "retooling" not rebuilding, you're not going to get an elite prospect from 1 year of rebuilding, the closest we have is Kravtsov who was a great pick and he has elite potential
3. A lot of people hating on the Lias pick but who was (realistically) picked after him that looks potentially elite anyway? Mittelstadt? He's struggling so far as well and half the board would have turned on him by now. Vilardi? Maybe but he's not some potential elite prospect. In Lias, we have someone who can be our future captain with a gritty, defensively responsible game. We got our stud in Chytil later in that 1st

Gorton has done a fantastic job so far, only thing he did which I didnt like was the Smith contract but to be fair, Smith deserved it after those playoffs. Shattenkirk signing was nice at the time but doesn't look too good now but it's not terrible

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

The brightside is that I firmly believe they will build a strong team that can go deep.

Rangerstown has done this many times.

But they wont win a cup.

Anyway, an online militia tried to whack me for suggesting this repeating pattern, so I’m just going to be positive for a while.

People will figure it out whenever they will

c’est la vie

 

[nyr2k2]

ok, ive changed my mind. I've decided.

as long as we have henrik in net, and as long as he's able to play at this level, we will not tank. won't happen.

we will be good enough to beat teams and good enough to finish just out of a playoff spot. as we decide to sell off players, we will drop some but again, with hank, there can be no tank.

forget the fact that i honestly believe the players and the coaches have zero interest in tanking. they all want to win. with this team and hank in net, there won't be any tank.

now what ?

This is the same point I made the other night with the complaints about our performance where we won a game where we were out-Corsi'ed. We have a bunch of hungry young players that are stepping up. We have our core players like Zibs and Kreider and Skjei et al, who want to win, and definitely don't want to tank. Then we have our impending rentals, who all want to do their best because a) they're professionals and b) they want to go to a contender. And then of course, Hank. We're clearly lacking in overall team talent, but not so much that we're going to be horrible, and we have enough (particularly with Hank) that we should be competitive most nights.

Before the season when people were saying we were bottom three for sure, I said we're more like 20-25 than 25-31. I still firmly believe that to be the case. And who knows, if the kids like DeAngelo, Pionk, Chtyil, Howden, and Andersson all continue to improve, we could be flirting with a wild card spot, and be in the 16-20 range. I don't expect that, but I don't view it as impossible. We're "only" 18 games in, but that's almost a quarter of the season and not an insignificant amount.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I've merged two threads together on topics I believe will end up overlapping. I think as long as this doesn't run parallel with the roster building thread (which usually ends up happening) we can keep it open.

 

[Crease]

I think it was right to move on from McDonaugh at the beginning of a rebuild, it just sucks he was playing so poorly (for his standards) at the time.

 

[True Blue]

Before the season when people were saying we were bottom three for sure, I said we're more like 20-25 than 25-31. I still firmly believe that to be the case. And who knows, if the kids like DeAngelo, Pionk, Chtyil, Howden, and Andersson all continue to improve, we could be flirting with a wild card spot, and be in the 16-20 range. I don't expect that, but I don't view it as impossible. We're "only" 18 games in, but that's almost a quarter of the season and not an insignificant amount.

If, If, IF....If Gorton stays the course and peddles Zucc and maybe Hayes to obtain more assets and this team still manages to make the playoffs and winds up in that mid range and that first pick turns out to be a Boldy/Turcotte/Newhook, I wold be completely fine with that. And don't forget the other assets brought in by the would be trades. The upside is that the kids would have had a season to grow together and play meaningful minutes. And the veteran new leaders (ZBad, Kreider) will have taken steps forward. That does not net you Hughes, but it does lay down a pretty darn good foundation.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

They’ve been so absurdly lucky over the last few weeks.

Things will normalize.

 

[True Blue]

They’ve been so absurdly lucky over the last few weeks.

Things will normalize.

I say that they need to take much more drastic measures. If you score a goal, you are benched for the rest of the period. If you do not give the puck away to the opposition, you are scratched from the next game. Oh, and let's send the Lundqvist family on a much needed vacation for a few months.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I say that they need to take much more drastic measures. If you score a goal, you are benched for the rest of the period. If you do not give the puck away to the opposition, you are scratched from the next game. Oh, and let's send the Lundqvist family on a much needed vacation for a few months.

Lol if AV didn’t like you he would basically do these things.

 

[Machinehead]

Lol if AV didn’t like you he would basically do these things.

Remember when he benched Kreider and forgot he benched Kreider?

"I wasn't aware he missed a shift"

 

[True Blue]

Remember when he benched Kreider and forgot he benched Kreider?

"I wasn't aware he missed a shift"

The same man who "lost" his best defensive pairing on the bench in the closing minutes of a playoff game?

 

[Off Sides]

I think the Smith, Shattenkirk thing was a retool, when it failed to materialize last year they figured it was rebuild time in earnest.

My guess, the Brassard/Zbad trade was getting younger and they got a pick but they figured Zbad was soon to be as good as Brassard so no on ice loss.

That in a way along with Hayes and Miller emerging facilitated the Stepan trade, along with his clause pending activation. I think they believed Miller/Hayes could replace Stepan more easily. They knew the prospect pool stank so they got the #7, they knew the RD was bad so they took on DeAngelo in hopes he'd turn it around.

The Smith rental was a playoff move that turned into a extension and they saw it as a free 2nd and only an extra 3rd.

Smith extended based on his playoffs, yet only for 4 years.

Shattenkirk they figured was too good to pass up on that term, ends same year as Lundqvist, Smith and Staal as they did not have much faith in DeAngelo or Pionk at that time.

I think they were preparing to use the remaining term on Lundqvist's contract as their timeline and were prepared to still "go for it" if the season's circumstance allowed for it. I mean why buyout Girardi unless they figured they could use that cap "savings" to improve the team?

Once that went off the rails, possibly injury related along with Smith and several others under performing and AV being AV, the rebuild opportunity presented itself.

I'm not sure it was really a A to B plan being followed, more the circumstances dictated what the moves were. At least until the rebuild was officially announced, from that point on other than the McQuaid trade I think they have followed through on a more of an A to B plan. They probably should have put more faith in DeAngelo, Pionk but then again maybe Shattenkirk's health was still in question, maybe still is.

How long they stick to that plan, I have my doubts since I think the plan may still change based on shorter term or lack of patience circumstances but until they totally deviate I at least see some method of long term planning being applied. If they follow through on it I do believe the organizational assets from drafted to developed NHLers will eventually be in very good shape.

They have a lot to still sell off if they choose, they have some up and coming stuff. If they continue to add to the up and coming stuff eventually tons of that will come of NHL at or around the same time and there will still be more behind, and most will be on cheaper entry level or 2nd contracts. They can pick and choose who to bridge and who to sign long term off their entry levels. At that point once it settles and matures a bit they can use whatever redundancy they have within those organizational assets to fill in the holes.

No guarantees, maybe not even a super early pick, more so, for once in as long as I can remember an organization that has prioritized patience, organizational health and future above the right now, or as Sather would call it, always looking to improve the current team.

With that said, I shall now prepare myself to be disappointed. Who are they renting this year and what giant UFA contract(s) are they signing this off-season? I know that sounds cynical but I have been a Rangers fan through I think 5 maybe 6 GMs.

 

[Webster]

I think that Gorton will execute his plan no matter what. Which means trading Zuccarello no matter what. Probably/Possibly trading Hayes (unless he views him as now being a legit #2 center) no matter what.

I think you're in for a disappointment...wait and see.

 

[Machinehead]

The same man who "lost" his best defensive pairing on the bench in the closing minutes of a playoff game?

That's him.

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

I am all for the Rangers playing well, but realistically we have 4 wins in 18 games that didn't come as a result of a sideshow gimmick. (yes 3 on 3 is a joke)

our record is artificially inflated which may be the worst thing for this team right now.

This team is not a very good one, but at least they seem to give a shit, and put forth the effort. Thats important

 

[Ori]

I know many here want an U20 hockey team, but as I`ve mention many times it don`t work like that in NHL, because u need some veteran players. So if we like it or not one of Kevin Shattenkirk or Marc Staal will play next season as well if they are healthy.

And more likely Zucc will be moved for a future pick similar to the Nash deal, and I can see Brendan Smith being moved with his modified-NTC, and with Spooner and Hayes since they are developing and drafting centers recently in 2017 and possible in 2019 when we hopefully bottom out at least ideal this season.

I don`t look at the 20 game mark as a magical number that would change the Franchise direction at all so what if we just had 5 games that we were fortunate and won. And this is a full rebuild and it started last season with the Letter and moving our 2nd captain in Ryan Mc. We can get good return in both ZiB and Kreider as well since many of you are talking about moving Brady Skjei who is only 24.
Anyway if we fail to bottom out it looks really bad since Gorton moved Ryan Mc. we need top draft picks and elite players to win cups in NHL. LA management hired one of the worst coach in NHL and they started to tank.

And if we end up as a playoffs or a wild card team and some talking about buyers at TDL.. ..I don`t know what to say we just wasted another draft year I guess. We are not one Panarin away from the cup - we need a new core and young elite prospects/talents among the forwad group.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I know many here want an U20 hockey team, but as I`ve mention many times it don`t work like that in NHL, because u need some veteran players. So if we like it or not one of Kevin Shattenkirk or Marc Staal will play next season as well if they are healthy.

And more likely Zucc will be moved for a future pick similar to the Nash deal, and I can see Brendan Smith being moved with his modified-NTC, and with Spooner and Hayes since they are developing and drafting centers recently in 2017 and possible in 2019 when we hopefully bottom out at least ideal this season.

I don`t look at the 20 game mark as a magical number that would change the Franchise direction at all so what if we just had 5 games that we were fortunate and won. And this is a full rebuild and it started last season with the Letter and moving our 2nd captain in Ryan Mc. We can get good return in both ZiB and Kreider as well since many of you are talking about moving Brady Skjei who is only 24.
Anyway if we fail to bottom out it looks really bad since Gorton moved Ryan Mc. we need top draft picks and elite players to win cups in NHL. LA management hired one of the worst coach in NHL and they started to tank.

And if we end up as a playoffs or a wild card team and some talking about buyers at TDL.. ..I don`t know what to say we just wasted another draft year I guess. We are not one Panarin away from the cup - we need a new core and young elite prospects/talents among the forwad group.

I don't know that the issue is some posters wanting a U20 hockey team. In my opinion, the issue is that rebuilds do not go as fast as they might like so it makes their vision of doing a fire sale and having a core that is almost entirely made up of Rangers draft picks, not practical. You cannot sell off an entire team in 1 season. You will never get fair value for your players AND you need some vets to insulate your younger guys.

 

[NYRKing]

And if we end up as a playoffs or a wild card team and some talking about buyers at TDL.. ..I don`t know what to say we just wasted another draft year I guess. We are not one Panarin away from the cup - we need a new core and young elite prospects/talents among the forwad group.

First, I'd be completely shocked if this team makes the playoffs, but you never know. Kudos to Quinn and the team for being competitive, but a lot would need to break right for them not to be in the lottery.

What's more important than the ultimate Isles/Oil/Pens/Caps/Leafs 5 year tank jobs, is actually accumulating pick/assets and then capitalizing on those picks! Teams win and fail in different way. Look at the Islanders vs. Bruins for example. Isles did the 5-10 year tank job and they have nothing. Even with Tavares, achieved absolutely nothing. The Bruins won a cup with excellent drafting and sound accumulation of assets. Same for the Red Wings. And guess what, as great as Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Backstrom are as top picks, Kuznetsov, Carlson, Letang, Guenzel are nothing to sneeze at.

Point is people get caught up with a top 3 pick, but really there are other ways to craft a championship team.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Remember when he benched Kreider and forgot he benched Kreider?

"I wasn't aware he missed a shift"

That’s a bit literal.

 

[offdacrossbar]

jack hughes is a ridiculous talent.

were this team to actually add him to this roster next year- rather than say, LA which is likely where hes heading, its would transform this organization from pretender to contender over night.

hes that good.

or we can keep adding mid 1st round talent and continue as we have been.

adding an elite 1C like JH isnt like adding the 7th pick in this years draft.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

jack hughes is a ridiculous talent.

were this team to actually add him to this roster next year- rather than say, LA which is likely where hes heading, its would transform this organization from pretender to contender over night.

hes that good.

or we can keep adding mid 1st round talent and continue as we have been.

adding an elite 1C like JH isnt like adding the 7th pick in this years draft.

In all fairness, if we met the Kings in the finals again 14 years from now, and we lost again because they drafted better, the 8k Virtual Reality HF Boards will say “the coach didn't make the best lines”.

So I say to hell with tanking!

 

[Levitate]

jack hughes is a ridiculous talent.

were this team to actually add him to this roster next year- rather than say, LA which is likely where hes heading, its would transform this organization from pretender to contender over night.

hes that good.

or we can keep adding mid 1st round talent and continue as we have been.

adding an elite 1C like JH isnt like adding the 7th pick in this years draft.

Agreed but there's no surefire way to get the #1 overall pick plus this team just isn't quite as bad as people want it to be. Quinn actually seems to have a clue when it comes to coaching and the talent on the team is enough for it to not be absolutely horrid.

If there's a selloff that guts the team then we could see them drop down further but realistically I think we're still looking at a top 10 pick but not top 5

 

[Nickmo82]

Give him a top-5 pick and let’s see

Rangers have drafted top 5 once since the O6 era. It's not really something Rangers GMs have to consider.

 

[Rempe73]

Any particular reason you see that as Kravtsov's ceiling? Not that it's a bad one.

His awkward skating is a slight issue, as well as his good (but not crazy good) shot. His playmaking is really good, though.