Jason Botchford - Credible or Not

[Mr. Canucklehead]

I'd love to have McNally signed and it'd be disappointing if the Canucks truly don't have interest, as he's certainly shown more than a Sautner or Cederholm.

However, it's important to note that Botch isn't clear on what the holdup is here. From the phrasing, it could just as well be McNally wanting to test the UFA waters rather than the Canucks having no interest. He's presumably a smart kid, and at this point he has nothing invested in the team, so it would make all the sense in the world for him to assess all his options.

Botchford is also frequently wrong. Most recently regarding Ben Hutton, who he said would not be signing a contract and would instead opt to finish his studies and play another year in college. A couple of days later, the Canucks had him locked up.

Click to read more...

 

[Kickassguy]

Botchford is also frequently wrong. Most recently regarding Ben Hutton, who he said would not be signing a contract and would instead opt to finish his studies and play another year in college. A couple of days later, the Canucks had him locked up.

Point. For the most part I like Botch, but he has his foibles. Still hoping we can get this kid locked up.

 

[Seattle Totems]

Botchford has no connection to McNally and is merely speculating as most other sports journalists do with every story.

 

[Kickassguy]

Botchford has no connection to McNally and is merely speculating as most other sports journalists do with every story.

My sense was that he was reporting what he was hearing from the Canucks' side, rather than McNally himself. But it wasn't a very clearly defined statement.

 

[windflare]

My sense was that he was reporting what he was hearing from the Canucks' side, rather than McNally himself. But it wasn't a very clearly defined statement.

As per usual from Botch, just so that he can have his ass covered.

 

[Lindgren]

My sense was that he was reporting what he was hearing from the Canucks' side, rather than McNally himself. But it wasn't a very clearly defined statement.

The Harvard reporter with whom I had a short email exchange said that McNally himself didn't know whether he'd be eligible to play next year and wouldn't have a decision till his season was over.

 

[Wisp]

Botchford is also frequently wrong. Most recently regarding Ben Hutton, who he said would not be signing a contract and would instead opt to finish his studies and play another year in college. A couple of days later, the Canucks had him locked up.

Botchford didn't say that.

Here's what Botchford said on March 9th

2012 draft pick Ben Hutton is planning on going back to Maine for another season. Hutton has long vowed to finish his degree before turning pro, something teams knew at the draft, which could explain why he was taken in the fifth round when some believed he’d be taken in the third.

The Canucks, in turn, are planning a visit, which would include Sir Bennington, at some point over the next few months. The visit would be to give him the old Weber blueprint on why he should skip his plans and join the Canucks instead.

The Canucks would like to make room for Hutton in Utica. That’s not as easy as it sounds. There does appear to be a glut of d-men in this organization currently.
http://blogs.theprovince.com/2015/0...twist-and-why-canucks-were-angry-with-old-17/

And here's an update Botch made a couple days before Hutton signed:

They also plan to sign Ben Hutton. His deal will slide to next year as well. Watch for them to send Hutton to Utica to play on a PTO later this season.
http://blogs.theprovince.com/2015/0...-lack-slays-it-post-game-and-dorsetts-future/

Very different from your narrative. It's a great story from Botchford.

You should provide look for the quotes and fact check before you say things like that.

Botchford's accuracy in the Hutton story leads me to believe he has a good sense of what is going on with McNally.

 

[FroshaugFan2]

Botchford didn't say that.

Here's what Botchford said on March 9th



And here's an update Botch made a couple days before Hutton signed:




Very different from your narrative. It's a great story from Botchford.

You should provide look for the quotes and fact check before you say things like that.

Botchford's accuracy in the Hutton story leads me to believe he has a good sense of what is going on with McNally.

What Botchford was wrong about was Hutton vowing to finish his degree before turning pro and that being why he fell in the draft.

Him signing with us before finishing his degree leads me to believe he was wrong. Along the fact that story never came out at the draft and we picked him above where he was ranked.

 

[Wisp]

What Botchford was wrong about was Hutton vowing to finish his degree before turning pro and that being why he fell in the draft.

Him signing with us before finishing his degree leads me to believe he was wrong. Along the fact that story never came out at the draft and we picked him above where he was ranked.

Botchford said he wanted to finish his degree and that Canucks would try their best to change his mind. Then he broke the signing AND the PTO with Utica days before it happened.

Canucks appeared to change his mind, like Botchford said they would try. He nailed a lot of things outright, so what exactly are we criticizing Botchford over? Good story and coverage from the guy.

The only reason he's getting poopoo'd because some here are desperate for him to be wrong about McNally.

 

[FroshaugFan2]

Botchford said he wanted to finish his degree and that Canucks would try their best to change his mind.

Canucks appeared to change his mind.

Then he broke the signing AND the PTO with Utica days before it happened.

What exactly are we criticizing Botchford over? Good story and coverage from the guy.

The only reason he's getting poopoo'd because they're desperate about him being wrong about McNally.

Hutton never vowed to finish he degree before signing. He didn't fall in the draft. Botchford made that up. In fact Hutton said the opposite and hoped he could sign a contract before playing 4 years in college.

“Vancouver still wants me to go to school at Maine,†said Hutton, noting it will be a good place to build his game. “I can play all four years and if I'm good enough to make the jump to the NHL, I can do that sooner.â€

If Vancouver offers a contract to play in the show, however, he'd take it.

http://www.recorder.ca/2012/07/05/hutton-back-from-nhl-camp

 

[Wisp]

Hutton never vowed to finish he degree before signing. He didn't fall in the draft. Botchford made that up. In fact Hutton said the opposite and hoped he could sign a contract before playing 4 years in college.



http://www.recorder.ca/2012/07/05/hutton-back-from-nhl-camp

Even if he's wrong - which I don't think he is - that's a really bold claim. these college things are fluid, constantly changing situations. That quote of yours is three years old which is more than enough time for a player to change their mind. An agent might say one thing to a reporter, the player another, perhaps for negotiating purposes and create contradictory narratives.

I suspect, with contract negotiations going on, the agent has been using the line 'Hutton wants to finish his degree' to hold over the Canucks head. Whether through the Canucks or through the agent, this was communicated to Botchford, who then communicated it teh ppls.

In any case, there is no contradictory narrative from McNally: his camp from the very beginning has consistently stated his desire to get a Hardvard degree. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that this might not work out for the Canucks.

 

[racerjoe]

Even if he's wrong - which I don't think he is - that's a really bold claim. these college things are fluid, constantly changing situations. That quote of yours is three years old which is more than enough time for a player to change their mind. An agent might say one thing to a reporter, the player another, perhaps for negotiating purposes and create contradictory narratives.

I suspect, with contract negotiations going on, the agent has been using the line 'Hutton wants to finish his degree' to hold over the Canucks head. Whether through the Canucks or through the agent, this was communicated to Botchford, who then communicated it teh ppls.

In any case, there is no contradictory narrative from McNally: his camp from the very beginning has consistently stated his desire to get a Hardvard degree. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that this might not work out for the Canucks.

Yeah Botch would never lie... did you hear he bought a house in Vancouver across the street from Gaborik!

There is a quote from Hutton himself saying he would come out early that Wayne found. I don't know how you can assume much else.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Botchford didn't say that.

Here's what Botchford said on March 9th



And here's an update Botch made a couple days before Hutton signed:




Very different from your narrative. It's a great story from Botchford.

You should provide look for the quotes and fact check before you say things like that.

Botchford's accuracy in the Hutton story leads me to believe he has a good sense of what is going on with McNally.

By all means, choose to believe Botchford on all of his little nuggets if you like. None of what you wrote changes that he claimed Hutton would be returning to school, only to have the Canucks sign him a few days later. Not the first time he's been completely off base, either. The fact that he covers his backside with vagueries and common sense now makes no difference to me. He's improved as a reporter over the years, but his status as an insider is still dubious at best.

 

[Wisp]

By all means, choose to believe Botchford on all of his little nuggets if you like. None of what you wrote changes that he claimed Hutton would be returning to school, only to have the Canucks sign him a few days later. Not the first time he's been completely off base, either. The fact that he covers his backside with vagueries and common sense now makes no difference to me. He's improved as a reporter over the years, but his status as an insider is still dubious at best.

this is absurd, he also called Hutton getting signed two days before it happened. :laugh you can't pick and choose your spots like that. It's dishonest.

the standards people hold reporters too is absurd. Botchford is not attempting to fortune tell, he's providing updates on the situation as it stands.

 

[FroshaugFan2]

this is absurd, he also called Hutton getting signed days before it happened. you can't pick and choose your spots like that. It's dishonest.

the standards people hold reporters too is absurd. Botchford is not attempting to fortune tell, he's providing updates on the situation as it stands.

Not lying to his readers is now an absurd standard?

Botch said Hutton fell in the draft because teams knew Hutton was going to spend 4 years in college. That's not true. It has been brought up before, but he probably got Hutton and McNally mixed up.

 

[Wisp]

Not lying to his readers is now an absurd standard?

Botch said Hutton fell in the draft because teams knew Hutton was going to spend 4 years in college. That's not true. As it has been brought up before, he probably got Hutton and McNally mixed up.

if he did gett Hutton and McNally mixed up, that is a mistake, not lying. if that's the case, I can envision a scenario where Hutton's agent quoted Botchford his client's negotiating position (going back to school) and he conflated the two.

In any case, here's the ACTUAL timeline of recent events:

March 9th: Botchford reports what both parties are thinking. Hutton's camp says school, Canucks want to sign him.

March 14th: Botchford provides update: Canucks going to sign Hutton. Also says he's going to sign a PTO with Comets.

March 16th: Hutton signing announced.

March 19th: Hutton PTO with Utica Comets is announced.

tl;dr, tidy bit of journalism from Botchford. If he says McNally is looking grim, I believe it.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

this is absurd, he also called Hutton getting signed two days before it happened. :laugh you can't pick and choose your spots like that. It's dishonest.

Says the person evidently ignoring that Botchford said Hutton was "vowing to finish his degree" and return to Maine, something that is contradicted by other available evidence which you are selectively ignoring. You're casting stones from a glass house here by accusing others of twisting facts to suit a narrative, given that you are doing a dreadful job of doing just that.

the standards people hold reporters too is absurd. Botchford is not attempting to fortune tell, he's providing updates on the situation as it stands.

This isn't avout "reporters" in a plural sense. This is about Jason Botchford. He regularly passes off his own speculation as fact(as he did here, and he was forced to hastily correct himself as a result) which I take umbrage with.

I'm not trying to convince you, though. If you want to believe his trumped up tea leaf readings, be my guest.

 

[Jay Cee]

Botchford didn't say that.

Here's what Botchford said on March 9th



And here's an update Botch made a couple days before Hutton signed:




Very different from your narrative. It's a great story from Botchford.

You should provide look for the quotes and fact check before you say things like that.

Botchford's accuracy in the Hutton story leads me to believe he has a good sense of what is going on with McNally.

Botch?

 

[FroshaugFan2]

if he did gett Hutton and McNally mixed up, that is a mistake, not lying. if that's the case, I can envision a scenario where Hutton's agent quoted Botchford his client's negotiating position (going back to school) and he conflated the two.

In any case, here's the ACTUAL timeline of recent events:

March 9th: Botchford reports what both parties are thinking. Hutton's camp says school, Canucks want to sign him.

March 14th: Botchford provides update: Canucks going to sign Hutton. Also says he's going to sign a PTO with Comets.

March 16th: Hutton signing announced.

March 19th: Hutton PTO with Utica Comets is announced.

tl;dr, tidy bit of journalism from Botchford. If he says McNally is looking grim, I believe it.

He also made a mistake saying McNally becomes UFA on August 15th this year. Feel free to believe whatever he says though.

 

[Wisp]

Says the person evidently ignoring that Botchford said Hutton was "vowing to finish his degree" and return to Maine, something that is contradicted by other available evidence which you are selectively ignoring. You're casting stones from a glass house here by accusing others of twisting facts to suit a narrative, given that you are doing a dreadful job of doing just that.

Your "evidence" is a three year old quote from 2012.

Are you saying there is no way he changed his mind within three years?

it's possible there was some soul-searching and flip-flopping going on:

http://bangordailynews.com/2015/03/16/sports/umaine-junior-defenseman-signs-with-vancouver-canucks/
“It was a very difficult decision,” said Hutton. “I love it here. I don’t know if I’ll ever play in a rink with the same atmosphere as the Alfond Arena. They’re the best fans in college hockey.

“But I talked to my family and we felt it was time to start my pro career.”

I think the most likely scenario, however, is that Botchford was quoted negotiating position from Hutton's agent. I suspect Hutton's agent has been Botchford's source on this, given the way he called the signing and the PTO.

I don't think there was any speculation going on. I suppose it's possible who confused Hutton and McNally, re: draft, but he was ace otherwise and deserves the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

^I'm not going to drive this thread further off topic. I've said all I have to say about that matter.

Hopefully McNally has a strong finish to the season, and the Canucks start trying to woo him into the professional route.

 

[Verviticus]

he was basically 100% right about hutton and it's baffling that anyone could think otherwise. whether or not he got something from three years ago mixed up with something from five years ago is fully irrelevant

He also made a mistake saying McNally becomes UFA on August 15th this year. Feel free to believe whatever he says though.

yeah dude how dare he... mistakes... the first act of a liar

 

[FroshaugFan2]

he was basically 100% right about hutton and it's baffling that anyone could think otherwise. whether or not he got something from three years ago mixed up with something from five years ago is fully irrelevant

yeah dude how dare he... mistakes... the first act of a liar

Botchford was 100% wrong here. It's fiction that makes the story more interesting.

2012 draft pick Ben Hutton is planning on going back to Maine for another season. Hutton has long vowed to finish his degree before turning pro, something teams knew at the draft, which could explain why he was taken in the fifth round when some believed he’d be taken in the third.

http://blogs.theprovince.com/2015/0...twist-and-why-canucks-were-angry-with-old-17/

McNally not signing because he is going back for his senior year and McNally not signing because he's set to become a UFA are VASTLY different circumstances.

 

[Verviticus]

Botchford was 100% wrong here. It's fiction that makes the story more interesting.

what? all of those things can be completely true without anyone being wrong. did you actually read it? or does a red haze obstruct your vision when anyone types "botch"

edit: i dont know if anyone actually understands mcnally's situation. i certainly dont. im just trying to interpret the CBA literally, but there might be other things that change it so he is a FA.

 

[FroshaugFan2]

what? all of those things can be completely true without anyone being wrong. did you actually read it? or does a red haze obstruct your vision when anyone types "botch"

Are you just ignoring my earlier post? Or do you take Botchford's word over Hutton's with regards to Hutton's plans?

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=99668627&postcount=169