Jamie Benn vs Mark Stone - Peak

[Brovalchuk]

Who would you rather have/who is better at their absolute prime/peak?

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[bobholly39]

Benn was pretty spectacular in 2014-2015 & 2015-2016. For that 2 year stretch, I prefer him, so voted him.

If it's longer overall prime, I could see an argument for Stone

 

[M88K]

Maybe homer vote, but at his absolute best, Benn was considered a top3 LW in the league.
Stone while great, not so much.
There's a laundry list of players I'd take over Stone at his best.
That said, no doubt Stone will have a better overall career, as Benn is already hot garbage

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Benn, easily. Ross winner, ross runner up, hart finalist, lindsay finalist, 1st AST. Stone has never been close to that level.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

At their absolute peaks, Benn. He was arguably the top powerforward in the league when he finished 1st and 2nd in the scoring race those back to back seasons.

 

[TheGoldenGod]

Peak Benn was an all around beast

 

[McRpro]

Peak Benn wins easily.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Peak Benn was a top tier power forward who won the Art Ross (granted one of the weakest wins ever but still)
That’s a level of dominance Stone hasn’t hit

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Benn for sure. At his best, only Ovechkin and Kane were considered to be better wingers than him.

 

[Regal]

Benn just had a bit more high end scoring touch, but it's a lot closer than the comments.

 

[Lays]

Peak-Benn
Career-Stone

 

[Evergreen]

Benn.

 

[Gurglesons]

Benn just had a bit more high end scoring touch, but it's a lot closer than the comments.

No it isn't. Benn won an Art Ross. Stone's only top ten finish in terms of production is 10th in assists.

 

[Norwegianoiler]

This is an interesting duo, because it's pretty clear Benn had the better peak, but I suspect the results would be completely reversed where the poll to ask for the better career.

 

[surixon]

This is an interesting duo, because it's pretty clear Benn had the better peak, but I suspect the results would be completely reversed where the poll to ask for the better career.

I don't know about that. I think people will tend to look a but too closely at Benn's last 3 or so years which aren't great but that might discredit what he did prior to that.

Benn had a real nice 5 year prime where outside those big two years he was pretty consitiently around the ppg/80 point mark.

Prior to that he was a consistient mid to high 60's point power forward. So really a good 8 years of being a first line/elite power forward.

He's pretty much a second line caliber forward now which isn't too bad for a physical player in his 30's.

Stone so far has 7 years at the first line/elite level so pretty close to the same as Benn. It will be interesting to see if he ages better or worse which I think will ultimately distinguish those two in terms of careers.

 

[Regal]

No it isn't. Benn won an Art Ross. Stone's only top ten finish in terms of production is 10th in assists.

Nah, this trophy counting is why it's closer than people are saying. Benn's Art Ross would not have won in any other season in the modern era. It was a product of a lack of top tier talent and down/injured years at the time.

The difference between him and 11th in scoring (what Stone did last year) was 15 points. In the years before and after, which was the same scoring environment, it was 8 and 12. So on average, probably a 12 point difference between them. Now consider Benn played next to Seguin on Ruff's run and gun Stars team, and Stone is better defensively.

It's not like Art Ross winning Benn was some super elite forward like a McDavid or Kucherov, etc. He would probably only be the 4th best winger in the league today. No way he's better than Kucherov, Panarin or Marchand. And Stone was just voted the 7th best today. I don't really see a huge difference.

 

[Gurglesons]

Nah, this trophy counting is why it's closer than people are saying. Benn's Art Ross would not have won in any other season in the modern era. It was a product of a lack of top tier talent and down/injured years at the time.

The difference between him and 11th in scoring (what Stone did last year) was 15 points. In the years before and after, which was the same scoring environment, it was 8 and 12. So on average, probably a 12 point difference between them. Now consider Benn played next to Seguin on Ruff's run and gun Stars team, and Stone is better defensively.

Benn finished 2nd in scoring the year after and 8th the year prior.

If we are throwing in "x-factors" like defense, Jamie Benn in his prime was an absolute truck. I also question how far defensively Benn's prime was off of Stone's defensive prime when we compare it to Benn being a level above him offensively.

 

[Regal]

Benn finished 2nd in scoring the year after and 8th the year prior.

If we are throwing in "x-factors" like defense, Jamie Benn in his prime was an absolute truck.

Yes, he was smoked by Kane the year after despite a better season, because his win wasn't close to usual Art Ross standards. He was better offensively, but it wasn't by as great as his point finishes suggest. I think the system factor is also bigger than people want to admit. Dallas was 2nd in goals for and 26th in goals against that year. They went all out offense, and while Benn has regressed as a player, I don't think Seguin did much in the subsequent years under Hitchcock and Montgomery, and yet his points and PPG finishes were much worse.

Defense isn't an x-factor, it's a main part of the game and far more valuable than physicality.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yes, he was smoked by Kane the year after despite a better season, because his win wasn't close to usual Art Ross standards. He was better offensively, but it wasn't by as great as his point finishes suggest. I think the system factor is also bigger than people want to admit. Dallas was 2nd in goals for and 26th in goals against that year. They went all out offense, and while Benn has regressed as a player, I don't think Seguin did much in the subsequent years under Hitchcock and Montgomery, and yet his points and PPG finishes were much worse.

Defense isn't an x-factor, it's a main part of the game and far more valuable than physicality.

Cool. When was Stone in the top ten for scoring?

I don't think Benn was the best player in the league or even top 3 in those years, but the simple fact is his offensive game was at levels Stone has never been close to.

There is no comparison between Benn and Stone's peak. Stone was a solid two way forward. Benn was in the conversation for being the best winger in the game.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Depends on what you put more value towards. Offense vs. Defense.

 

[Gurglesons]

Depends on what you put more value towards. Offense vs. Defense.

Jamie Benn was a very good defensive player in his prime?

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

No it isn't. Benn won an Art Ross. Stone's only top ten finish in terms of production is 10th in assists.

And Stone's finish came in a 56 game covid season so, based on the rest of his career, that can be considered a fluke outlier. He really has no finishes.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Benn just had a bit more high end scoring touch, but it's a lot closer than the comments.

Nah, this trophy counting is why it's closer than people are saying. Benn's Art Ross would not have won in any other season in the modern era. It was a product of a lack of top tier talent and down/injured years at the time.

The difference between him and 11th in scoring (what Stone did last year) was 15 points. In the years before and after, which was the same scoring environment, it was 8 and 12. So on average, probably a 12 point difference between them. Now consider Benn played next to Seguin on Ruff's run and gun Stars team, and Stone is better defensively.

It's not like Art Ross winning Benn was some super elite forward like a McDavid or Kucherov, etc. He would probably only be the 4th best winger in the league today. No way he's better than Kucherov, Panarin or Marchand. And Stone was just voted the 7th best today. I don't really see a huge difference.

Your arguments against Benn sort of sound similar to the arguments in that Crosby/Datsyuk thread for why Crosby's peak wasn't really better than Datsyuk's peak.

"Sure, his offense was a bit higher, but DEFENSE"

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Jamie Benn was a very good defensive player in his prime?

He was, but not better than Stone. Stone is Datsyuk-like in terms of transitioning play; takeaways.

 

[Gurglesons]

He was, but not better than Stone. Stone is Datsyuk-like in terms of transitioning play; takeaways.

Jamie Benn was 5th in the league in takeaways in his Ross season.

Once again, when did Stone finish top ten in scoring? Because Benn did it three times in his peak, so I'm glad Stone takes the puck away like Datsyuk, but Datsyuk finished in the top five twice in his career at least.

Honestly, sounds like a lot of people never watched prime Jamie Benn, because he was basically everything people are liking about Stone's game, but with actual elite scoring ability and he could also beat the shit out of people.