Recalled/Assigned: Jakub Kindl Recalled

[Mister Ed]

Don't kill the messenger, but :

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[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Great would rather have Ouellet what's going on with Holland. Ouellet right now is better then Kindl.

 

[Flowah]

This is me waving one finger in the air in a circular motion. Very sarcastically.

 

[Dotter]

Great would rather have Ouellet what's going on with Holland. Ouellet right now is better then Kindl.

Maybe he wants Oulette playing 20 minutes instead of the 3 minutes he'd get in the NHL?

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Maybe he wants Oulette playing 20 minutes instead of the 3 minutes he'd get in the NHL?

Yeah obviously that's what Holland has in mind, Better to give Ouellet 20 minutes per night playing with the Griffs then 3 minutes per in Detroit that's logical.

 

[Frk It]

Maybe he wants Oulette playing 20 minutes instead of the 3 minutes he'd get in the NHL?

Doesn't even sound like he will play. If they were actually calling someone up to play I think they would have called a prospect up.

 

[Electric Eric]

Maybe he wants Oulette playing 20 minutes instead of the 3 minutes he'd get in the NHL?

I feel like there is a time where that shouldn't apply anymore. You can only get so much out of the AHL, unless you're saying the NHL is the same.

 

[Heaton]

Maybe he wants Oulette playing 20 minutes instead of the 3 minutes he'd get in the NHL?

Well, if XO played in the NHL, even as a 6th defensemen he'd get at least 14 minutes. I just don't think XO is a priority. If he were going to be really good he'd have gotten some time this year in the NHL. He'll be a good depth guy moving forward, but he'll get a spot by default of losing his waiver option, not because he forced the teams hand.

 

[Flowah]

Even Kindl got double digit minutes in the NHL. If XO isn't going to get at least 11 every night then we should just trade him because he's apparently not as good as Kindl.

 

[Mister Ed]

Stupid question, but does Kindl have to go through waivers again to go down to the AHL?

 

[lidstromiscool]

I thought he was sent down for salary reasons, how can they call up his 2.4 Million? If Detroit is so concerned about the salary cap, call up someone who is cheaper (And better)

 

[FlashyG]

Its a call up for the 7th defenceman, why call a prospect up just to sit him?

Its a set of back to back games on the road, if someone gets injured in the first there'd be nobody to replace him in the 2nd and these games are incredibly important.

It makes sense to have someone like Kindl in the pressbox to be used if he's needed and sat if he's not.

I thought he was sent down for salary reasons, how can they call up his 2.4 Million? If Detroit is so concerned about the salary cap, call up someone who is cheaper (And better)

Kronwall was put on LTIR after the all-star game, freeing up salary space for this move. He can't be activated until the 13th, so they have a bunch of cap space until then.

 

[Frk It]

Even Kindl got double digit minutes in the NHL. If XO isn't going to get at least 11 every night then we should just trade him because he's apparently not as good as Kindl.

Being a better candidate to be the #7 d man and sit in the press box, and being the better player are 2 entirely different things.

I'm assuming Kindl is just there as an emergency option, but maybe I'm naive.

 

[Flowah]

Being a better candidate to be the #7 d man and sit in the press box, and being the better player are 2 entirely different things.

I'm assuming Kindl is just there as an emergency option, but maybe I'm naive.

That makes more sense. But I was responding to someone who was commenting on the "3 minutes" a night he'd get. That's not what he'd get if he were playing and I'm not worried about it.

 

[BinCookin]

If we want to trade Kindl, its best to play him in the NHL for as much as we can, and hope he has a freakin beast game of 2 goals and an assist.

Ironically this might make another team bite. So its in XO's interest to have Kindl called up, because this means he has a better chance to make the team if Kindl is traded

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Stupid question, but does Kindl have to go through waivers again to go down to the AHL?

Nope, I believe it's like 10 games or 24 days he would have to be up and he will be sent back down once Kronner gets back

 

[Kronwalled55]

He even looked like a pylon at times in the AHL. Why can't we quit him.

 

[Winger98]

I thought he was sent down for salary reasons, how can they call up his 2.4 Million? If Detroit is so concerned about the salary cap, call up someone who is cheaper (And better)

Not all of his contract comes off the cap when down. Whether we recall Kindl or call up XO, I think the cap concerns of either move are pretty similar in the end. And with Kronwall on LTIR, I'm not sure there's any cap savings going on by keeping just six D up.

Well, if XO played in the NHL, even as a 6th defensemen he'd get at least 14 minutes. I just don't think XO is a priority. If he were going to be really good he'd have gotten some time this year in the NHL. He'll be a good depth guy moving forward, but he'll get a spot by default of losing his waiver option, not because he forced the teams hand.

My problem is that I've never seen an indication of what exactly it takes for a D to force the Wings' hand. We've seen prospects come up and out play vets in short term injury call-ups, we've seen them out perform vets in the pre-season, but aside from a vet just sucking so badly it's indefensible to keep them in the lineup (Kindl), it seems the promotion process is just a game of roulette.

 

[Datsyukian Deke]

Ugh.....why????

 

[Frk It]

My problem is that I've never seen an indication of what exactly it takes for a D to force the Wings' hand. We've seen prospects come up and out play vets in short term injury call-ups, we've seen them out perform vets in the pre-season, but aside from a vet just sucking so badly it's indefensible to keep them in the lineup (Kindl), it seems the promotion process is just a game of roulette.

Waiving Kindl to keep Marchenko in the lineup is probably the best you're gonna get.

 

[Henkka]

Every time same roster move procedure and people are surprised.

 

[HockeyinHD]

My problem is that I've never seen an indication of what exactly it takes for a D to force the Wings' hand.

Dekeyser, Kronwall, Ericsson, Fischer. Off the top of my head those are the only dmen who have somewhat recently came up to Detroit while having waiver/stashing options available, or who have progressed into pretty large roles very quickly upon arrival.

We've seen prospects come up and out play vets in short term injury call-ups, we've seen them out perform vets in the pre-season, but aside from a vet just sucking so badly it's indefensible to keep them in the lineup (Kindl), it seems the promotion process is just a game of roulette.

The problem is that Detroit's had very few good young defensemen, especially compared to forward, where we have more cases of young players coming up and in quickly.

My general impression for players pushing their way onto the roster is that they just can't be as good or better than the bottom half of it. Whatever "upside" formula the team employs, they disregard it if they are figuring on the young player not being able to crack the top 3-4 on D or the top 6-8 at forward.

That theory holds up in analyzing pretty much all of Detroit's roster calls with young players over the past 15+ years, essentially Holland's tenure.

 

[BinCookin]

Dekeyser, Kronwall, Ericsson, Fischer. Off the top of my head those are the only dmen who have somewhat recently came up to Detroit while having waiver/stashing options available, or who have progressed into pretty large roles very quickly upon arrival.



The problem is that Detroit's had very few good young defensemen, especially compared to forward, where we have more cases of young players coming up and in quickly.

My general impression for players pushing their way onto the roster is that they just can't be as good or better than the bottom half of it. Whatever "upside" formula the team employs, they disregard it if they are figuring on the young player not being able to crack the top 3-4 on D or the top 6-8 at forward.

That theory holds up in analyzing pretty much all of Detroit's roster calls with young players over the past 15+ years, essentially Holland's tenure.

This is pretty accurate i think!

 

[Chance on Chance]

Maybe he wants Oulette playing 20 minutes instead of the 3 minutes he'd get in the NHL?

Maybe at this point it would be better for XO to practice with the big team. He could even go back to the griffins on Friday

 

[Winger98]

Dekeyser, Kronwall, Ericsson, Fischer. Off the top of my head those are the only dmen who have somewhat recently came up to Detroit while having waiver/stashing options available, or who have progressed into pretty large roles very quickly upon arrival.



The problem is that Detroit's had very few good young defensemen, especially compared to forward, where we have more cases of young players coming up and in quickly.

My general impression for players pushing their way onto the roster is that they just can't be as good or better than the bottom half of it. Whatever "upside" formula the team employs, they disregard it if they are figuring on the young player not being able to crack the top 3-4 on D or the top 6-8 at forward.

That theory holds up in analyzing pretty much all of Detroit's roster calls with young players over the past 15+ years, essentially Holland's tenure.

Do I need to point out that you're having to go back nearly 20 years to try to build a point around guys making the blueline? And even then Kronwall and Ericsson were 25 when they played their first full seasons in Detroit (or turned 25 that season, depending on when their respective birthdays fell), and Dekeyser came up when we were decimated by injuries and we were leaning on the likes of Brian Lashoff to get us through the season. Ficher got his start when roster limits were higher - something I wish they'd revisit considering the high energy games now being played from start to finish.

For the most part, I'd agree with you about Detroit's philosophy barring some outliers (Lashoff, Glendening, Andersson come immediately to mind), but that doesn't mean I think it's the best way of doing it. It's part of what led us to dumping ~$5m into Kindl/Smith, and another $4m into Quincey to fill out the bottom half of our blueline. I think you've talked about people looking at the mythical upsides of 25 year olds when looking at the roster, but that's really what the wings did with Smith and Kindl, and both have turned out to be debatable moves at best.

Has Detroit had a bunch of top3 quality D knocking on the door? No, at this point it's probably safe to say they haven't, but they've had several who could have taken those 4-7 jobs at a fraction of the cost and we wouldn't have lost anything on the ice. And we've sunk a lot of money into those spots to fill them poorly.

Going back to Fischer, though, and roster limits. I think it's safe to say the regular season has become more competitive with cap ceiling/floor, and the games have become more stressful from the beginning of the season on. We're also seeing a growing body of work about the negative effects of travel/playing/lack of sleep/etc. considering costs are for the most part controlled, I don't see why it's not being looked at to expand the rosters again. It would give teams more flexibility with subbing players in/out to keep them fresh, and allow slower grooming of players - like the Wings did with Fischer in his rookie year - since they don't have to play him every night. To me it's win/win for the league and the players (more jobs).