Player Discussion Jake Virtanen (MOD WARNING POST 755)

[Love]

The criticism JV gets is completely insane. He was one of our best producers last season. He was the best RW fit on the Miller/EP line (don’t get mad at me it’s just facts) and he’s still just 24.

Our already slow forward group doesn’t need to lose its fastest player. JV isn’t perfect but he’s sure as hell better than most in this market thinks he is. The media in this city is horrendous with their JV coverage. Zero facts, zero logic, just emotional drivel used to stir up controversy when there’s nothing to talk about.

Find me another player in the NHL who scored 18 goals (12 ES) in 69 games playing 13 minutes a night with 4th liners as his linemates. Seriously. Find me another guy who did that.

It’s also weird for a guy who “never hits” and “doesn’t have a physical game” to be 4th on the team in hits behind Miller, Edler, and Motte.

Weird... I’ve been told he doesn’t produce and doesn’t hit. Some of you really need to give your head a shake before talking about JV.

 

[Fatass]

The criticism JV gets is completely insane. He was one of our best producers last season. He was the best RW fit on the Miller/EP line (don’t get mad at me it’s just facts) and he’s still just 24.

Our already slow forward group doesn’t need to lose its fastest player. JV isn’t perfect but he’s sure as hell better than most in this market thinks he is. The media in this city is horrendous with their JV coverage. Zero facts, zero logic, just emotional drivel used to stir up controversy when there’s nothing to talk about.

Find me another player in the NHL who scored 18 goals (12 ES) in 69 games playing 13 minutes a night with 4th liners as his linemates. Seriously. Find me another guy who did that.

It’s also weird for a guy who “never hits” and “doesn’t have a physical game” to be 4th on the team in hits behind Miller, Edler, and Motte.

Weird... I’ve been told he doesn’t produce and doesn’t hit. Some of you really need to give your head a shake before talking about JV.

Jake comes to every camp overweight and not in proper professional condition, right? When he’s fit and plays well he’s a really good player, and a difference maker. Fingers crossed he understands the opportunity he has coming next season. He’s very likely going to get every chance to play with Petey and Miller. Maybe Miller works over the off season with Jake? That would be great for Jake.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Yeah looking at the FA crop, JV might be the best gamble out there right now. He’s frustrating as hell but not sure you find another 20 goal scorer at that price right now.

 

[4Twenty]

The criticism JV gets is completely insane. He was one of our best producers last season. He was the best RW fit on the Miller/EP line (don’t get mad at me it’s just facts) and he’s still just 24.

Our already slow forward group doesn’t need to lose its fastest player. JV isn’t perfect but he’s sure as hell better than most in this market thinks he is. The media in this city is horrendous with their JV coverage. Zero facts, zero logic, just emotional drivel used to stir up controversy when there’s nothing to talk about.

Find me another player in the NHL who scored 18 goals (12 ES) in 69 games playing 13 minutes a night with 4th liners as his linemates. Seriously. Find me another guy who did that.

It’s also weird for a guy who “never hits” and “doesn’t have a physical game” to be 4th on the team in hits behind Miller, Edler, and Motte.

Weird... I’ve been told he doesn’t produce and doesn’t hit. Some of you really need to give your head a shake before talking about JV.

The numbers say it's Boeser and it isn't even remotely close.

Boeser and Pettersson together is better for both Brock and Pettersson. Brock with Bo is bad for both and bad for the team. This bears out in the stats.

 

[F A N]

The numbers say it's Boeser and it isn't even remotely close.

Boeser and Pettersson together is better for both Brock and Pettersson. Brock with Bo is bad for both and bad for the team. This bears out in the stats.

I think Boeser with Petey is definitely good for both. I'm not sure if Bo with Brock is bad. Last season it was a very small sample size and they weren't good together. But in previous seasons Bo with Brock were fine.

 

[I am toxic]

The criticism JV gets is completely insane. He was one of our best producers last season. He was the best RW fit on the Miller/EP line (don’t get mad at me it’s just facts) and he’s still just 24.

Our already slow forward group doesn’t need to lose its fastest player. JV isn’t perfect but he’s sure as hell better than most in this market thinks he is. The media in this city is horrendous with their JV coverage. Zero facts, zero logic, just emotional drivel used to stir up controversy when there’s nothing to talk about.

Find me another player in the NHL who scored 18 goals (12 ES) in 69 games playing 13 minutes a night with 4th liners as his linemates. Seriously. Find me another guy who did that.

It’s also weird for a guy who “never hits” and “doesn’t have a physical game” to be 4th on the team in hits behind Miller, Edler, and Motte.

Weird... I’ve been told he doesn’t produce and doesn’t hit. Some of you really need to give your head a shake before talking about JV.

I like this post, it is mystifying the media BS hate. Not sure if it is some bizarre code for off-ice issues beyond just partying and showing up less than 100% ready to go, or if the media is as stupid as I am beginning to suspect.

Minor nit, I still think Brock had better numbers with Petey, but moot point. Brock and Jake are clearly our 2 best options at RW in our top 6, given the crappling contracts Benning has handed out like candy.

 

[Love]

The numbers say it's Boeser and it isn't even remotely close.

Boeser and Pettersson together is better for both Brock and Pettersson. Brock with Bo is bad for both and bad for the team. This bears out in the stats.

Well in both expected gf/60 and cf% Virtanen was better on the Miller/EP line. But yes Brock has better totals as he played there much more. I’m not saying JV is a better player than Brock my point is that having JV on the top line is a great option because he plays really well there and it allows Brock to help the 2nd line.

FYI, the line of Miller-EP-Virtanen had the 3rd best expected gf/60 of any line in the entire NHL (minimum 100 mins of playing time). Statistically it is a very good line combo.

 

[4Twenty]

Well in both expected gf/60 and cf% Virtanen was better on the Miller/EP line. But yes Brock has better totals as he played there much more. I’m not saying JV is a better player than Brock my point is that having JV on the top line is a great option because he plays really well there and it allows Brock to help the 2nd line.

FYI, the line of Miller-EP-Virtanen had the 3rd best expected gf/60 of any line in the entire NHL (minimum 100 mins of playing time). Statistically it is a very good line combo.

Elias Pettersson - Teammates - On Ice - Natural Stat Trick


Pettersson with Virt @ 5 on 5: 9GF 7GA
Pettersson with Brock @ 5 on 5: 37GF 23GA

Elias Pettersson's Expected goals is under 45% not with Brock Boeser.

 

[Love]

Pettersson's Expected goals is under 45% not with Brock Boeser.

Cool. Also not what I said.

Pettersson’s expected goals with Virtanen is better than it is with Boeser, and the link you just provided once again says just that.

 

[4Twenty]

Cool. Also not what I said.

Pettersson’s expected goals with Virtanen is better than it is with Boeser, and the link you just provided once again says just that.

Im just showing you that Pettersson is better with Boeser than without.

 

[Love]

Im just showing you that Pettersson is better with Boeser than without.

Of course he is. But that has nothing to do with anything I’ve posted.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

My formula for contracts based off of the last 3 years has Jake at 4.67m. It works much better for first/second liners, instead of middle 6 wingers though. Then again, Josh Anderson just got 7 years at 5.5m...

 

[Get North]

Either way you slice it, he's next in line to move up into the top 6 if there's no Toffoli replacement. Maybe Eriksson, Baertschi or Leivo have a outside shot, but I can be optimistic if Virtanen is in the top 6 on opening night.

 

[DonnyNucker]

The criticism JV gets is completely insane. He was one of our best producers last season. He was the best RW fit on the Miller/EP line (don’t get mad at me it’s just facts) and he’s still just 24.

Our already slow forward group doesn’t need to lose its fastest player. JV isn’t perfect but he’s sure as hell better than most in this market thinks he is. The media in this city is horrendous with their JV coverage. Zero facts, zero logic, just emotional drivel used to stir up controversy when there’s nothing to talk about.

Find me another player in the NHL who scored 18 goals (12 ES) in 69 games playing 13 minutes a night with 4th liners as his linemates. Seriously. Find me another guy who did that.

It’s also weird for a guy who “never hits” and “doesn’t have a physical game” to be 4th on the team in hits behind Miller, Edler, and Motte.

Weird... I’ve been told he doesn’t produce and doesn’t hit. Some of you really need to give your head a shake before talking about JV.

JV makes everyone he plays with worse. I have no idea what you are talking about. Harman did a great article on Virtanens negative impact on his teammates. Addition by subtraction

 

[M2Beezy]

Either way you slice it, he's next in line to move up into the top 6 if there's no Toffoli replacement. Maybe Eriksson, Baertschi or Leivo have a outside shot, but I can be optimistic if Virtanen is in the top 6 on opening night.

Miller Pettersson Boeser
Virtanen Horvat Leivo
Pearson Gaudette MacEwan
Motte Garbage Garbage 2

Hughes Myers
Edler Rafferty
Rathbone Schmidt

Demko
Holtby

The d might get mixed around a bit esp with shutdowns have Edler and Schmidt eating those minutes. No way is Schmidt a third pairing guy

 

[lawrence]

Virtanen fighting Hartman when Hartman nailed Pettersson from behind in round 1 shows Jake will and is ready to step up for his teamates when needed. I think he gets too much harsh words from the fan base, although I can't defend the selfie while driving thing, out of shape to camp, he needs to mature up. I know his iq is lacking, I don't expect him to ever lite it up, a physical opportunist winger who can score 20 is all we will get, he was a physical player for us during the playoffs.

 

[Love]

JV makes everyone he plays with worse. I have no idea what you are talking about. Harman did a great article on Virtanens negative impact on his teammates. Addition by subtraction

Statistically you are wrong.

 

[DonnyNucker]

Statistically you are wrong.

Statistically I’m correct. Have a look at the athletic article on Virtanen. Eye opening. Not for me as the statistical evidence supported the eye test

 

[sting101]

The criticism JV gets is completely insane. He was one of our best producers last season. He was the best RW fit on the Miller/EP line (don’t get mad at me it’s just facts) and he’s still just 24.

Our already slow forward group doesn’t need to lose its fastest player. JV isn’t perfect but he’s sure as hell better than most in this market thinks he is. The media in this city is horrendous with their JV coverage. Zero facts, zero logic, just emotional drivel used to stir up controversy when there’s nothing to talk about.

Find me another player in the NHL who scored 18 goals (12 ES) in 69 games playing 13 minutes a night with 4th liners as his linemates. Seriously. Find me another guy who did that.

It’s also weird for a guy who “never hits” and “doesn’t have a physical game” to be 4th on the team in hits behind Miller, Edler, and Motte.

Weird... I’ve been told he doesn’t produce and doesn’t hit. Some of you really need to give your head a shake before talking about JV.

I like this post, it is mystifying the media BS hate. Not sure if it is some bizarre code for off-ice issues beyond just partying and showing up less than 100% ready to go, or if the media is as stupid as I am beginning to suspect.

Minor nit, I still think Brock had better numbers with Petey, but moot point. Brock and Jake are clearly our 2 best options at RW in our top 6, given the crappling contracts Benning has handed out like candy.

Good Posts.

For all the complaining about getting value from contracts. This media driven desire to off Virtanen is mind numbingly stupid.

I'm not gonna sit here and say he's not super inconsistent and frustrating as all hell at times but when a guy can make your team faster push back defenses and has grown his passing and decision making to a decent level as well as puts up 40pt pace and 20goals for a measly 2.5 to 3 million you take that and run with it.

 

[Love]

Statistically I’m correct. Have a look at the athletic article on Virtanen. Eye opening. Not for me as the statistical evidence supported the eye test

JV playing with Miller and EP was the best line we had last season by both Corsi and expected goals per 60.

Pettersson’s expected goals, CF%, and SCF% was better when he was on the ice with Virtanen than when he was on the ice with Boeser. Pettersson’s high danger scoring chances for % was better with Virtanen than it was with Miller, Boeser, Toffoli, or Hughes.

So no, you’re wrong. One could easily make an argument that he makes our best player better.

 

[DonnyNucker]

JV playing with Miller and EP was the best line we had last season by both Corsi and expected goals per 60.

Pettersson’s expected goals, CF%, and SCF% was better when he was on the ice with Virtanen than when he was on the ice with Boeser. Pettersson’s high danger scoring chances for % was better with Virtanen than it was with Miller, Boeser, Toffoli, or Hughes.

So no, you’re wrong. One could easily make an argument that he makes our best player better.

I’d recommend reading Harman Dayal’s article on the Athletic. In short, he made all of our centres control offence less (And produce less) and his production is offset by his negative defensive impact. I’m on my phone so I’m not going to copy and paste plus the Athetic is worth the subscription price. He is a lazy player that produces low danger shots off the rush and can’t distribute the puck. Matches the eye test

 

[Bougieman]

The criticism JV gets is completely insane. He was one of our best producers last season. He was the best RW fit on the Miller/EP line (don’t get mad at me it’s just facts) and he’s still just 24.

Our already slow forward group doesn’t need to lose its fastest player. JV isn’t perfect but he’s sure as hell better than most in this market thinks he is. The media in this city is horrendous with their JV coverage. Zero facts, zero logic, just emotional drivel used to stir up controversy when there’s nothing to talk about.

Find me another player in the NHL who scored 18 goals (12 ES) in 69 games playing 13 minutes a night with 4th liners as his linemates. Seriously. Find me another guy who did that.

It’s also weird for a guy who “never hits” and “doesn’t have a physical game” to be 4th on the team in hits behind Miller, Edler, and Motte.

Weird... I’ve been told he doesn’t produce and doesn’t hit. Some of you really need to give your head a shake before talking about JV.

I honestly wish he took his career as seriously as you take it, because he'd always be 100% ready for his opportunities when they arrived, if that were the case. This guy is frustrating for management, I'm sure, because he's got it all sitting here for him on a silver platter, and they (and we) want nothing more for him to succeed and blow all our expectations out of the water, and yet... *shrugs* meh.

Well, all I can say is lets hope we're able to keep him, and he figures out how to take it to the next level. Every canucks fan wants JV to succeed, trust me.

 

[Love]

I’d recommend reading Harman Dayal’s article on the Athletic. In short, he made all of our centres control offence less (And produce less) and his production is offset by his negative defensive impact. I’m on my phone so I’m not going to copy and paste plus the Athetic is worth the subscription price. He is a lazy player that produces low danger shots off the rush and can’t distribute the puck. Matches the eye test

Everything you’re saying was true up until last season. His shot selection completely changed. Once again this is statistically proven.


“Virtanen’s poor shot selection was one of his largest areas of criticism in past seasons. Countless times, he would fail to recognize developing plays and opt to release a fluttering wrist shot from the boards. This became a virtual non-issue in 2019-20, where it looked as though he had completely shed that aspect of his game. The following shot charts by Evolving Hockey visualizes this.

The chart on top represents Jake Virtanen’s 2018-19 season. It clearly shows his tendency to shoot from along the right wing boards, and other low-danger areas. Shots from the slot are few and far between. This is not very promising from a supposed power forward. In contrast, the chart visualizing his 2019-20 season clearly shows a concentration of shots in the scoring area. This suggests that Virtanen was far more engaged near the net and not being deterred by physical battles, getting involved in the “dirty areas” as it’s affectionately called. It was the type of play that the fans and media had been clamouring for.”

The Breakout Season of Vancouver Canucks Winger Jake Virtanen

 

[4Twenty]

JV playing with Miller and EP was the best line we had last season by both Corsi and expected goals per 60.

Pettersson’s expected goals, CF%, and SCF% was better when he was on the ice with Virtanen than when he was on the ice with Boeser. Pettersson’s high danger scoring chances for % was better with Virtanen than it was with Miller, Boeser, Toffoli, or Hughes.

So no, you’re wrong. One could easily make an argument that he makes our best player better.

But Pettersson is better with Brock. Because he could pass on a line as passenger is fine but he’s not good there.

Actual goals% isn’t good. Extrapolate it over more minutes and they score less and get scored on more.

I like Jake as a guy who can play up there but if that’s the plan heading into the season I think it’s bad and hurts the team.


I also don’t know who you’re actually conversing with so sorry for butting in again.

 

[Star Ocean]

The criticism JV gets is completely insane.

3p in 16 playoff (0.18ppg) games says otherwise.

He deserves the critcism.