Jake Virtanen XI - Showtime Big Country (Update: Suspended for 2 Games)

[Billy Kvcmu]

Being critical of a pick.

Being critical of a players skill/abilities/how they play the game.

Hoping a player turns into a great player/does well/makes an impact for years.

Those are all three different things that one person can easily think. To equate criticism of the pick or player into hoping a player fails is not at all fair or even remotely accurate.

Agree but
Continue to bring up Ehler/Nylander as a comparison isn't one of those three .

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Being critical of a pick.

Being critical of a players skill/abilities/how they play the game.

Hoping a player turns into a great player/does well/makes an impact for years.

Those are all three different things that one person can easily think. To equate criticism of the pick or player into hoping a player fails is not at all fair or even remotely accurate.

No, going overboard and derailing the Virtanen thread with Ehlers talk constantly, degrading him as a player, questioning every aspect of his game, and then turning around pretending your a "real fan of the guy" is disingenuous and nothing but. If you are hyper critical of a player, which a few noted poster are with Virtanen, it's pretty rich to claim you hope for the best out of the guy.

Being critical is one thing but it's been 18 months of hyper critical, over the top doomsday predictions about this player from the usual suspects.

 

[me2]

Agree but
Continue to bring up Ehler/Nylander as a comparison isn't one of those three .

Bad GStank. Bad.

 

[Bleach Clean]

No, going overboard and derailing the Virtanen thread with Ehlers talk constantly, degrading him as a player, questioning every aspect of his game, and then turning around pretending your a "real fan of the guy" is disingenuous and nothing but. If you are hyper critical of a player, which a few noted poster are with Virtanen, it's pretty rich to claim you hope for the best out of the guy.

Being critical is one thing but it's been 18 months of hyper critical, over the top doomsday predictions about this player from the usual suspects.

I've grown more and more critical of Virtanen, I had him ranked ahead of Ehlers. Am I being disingenuous too?

Your rationale is preposterous. The biggest reason to criticize a player like him is that you expect more from him. If he's an afterthought, no one would care.

No such thing as the 'fan police'.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

I've grown more and more critical of Virtanen, I had him ranked ahead of Ehlers. Am I being disingenuous too?

Your rationale is preposterous. The biggest reason to criticize a player like him is that you expect more from him. If he's an afterthought, no one would care.

No such thing as the 'fan police'.

With fans like these...

 

[Rex Banner]

Get em, Country!

 

[F A N]

My mistake. Missed that you specified only draft year production. Still think the comparison is pretty close.

It's not close at all. It's actually a ridiculous comparison actually, no offense. Their skillsets are totally different. Their offensive potential was seen as completely different. Their style of play is completely different. The only thing similar is that they both play a physical game.

 

[Cupless44]

From the last thread

"I'm confident that virtually every poster here is cheering for Jake to become the best player he can possibly be."

That's BS, there are certain posters that are now renowned Virtanen haters.

You can't complain endlessly about Jake as a pick and player then turn around and say "oh but I hope he does real good"- could you be more disingenuous?

Kinda have to agree.

I get that you don't like the pick but to go on for a couple of years about it, saying Virtanen will be a bust, has lost his shot, is dumb with low hockey IQ ya da ya da....pretty lame when he starts to look good and I mean more in the future then right now, even though he is looking better and better, it is pretty lame to all of a sudden hop on the bandwagon and say you were always cheering for him to work out for the Canucks.

 

[Cupless44]

Being critical of a pick.

Being critical of a players skill/abilities/how they play the game.

Hoping a player turns into a great player/does well/makes an impact for years.

Those are all three different things that one person can easily think. To equate criticism of the pick or player into hoping a player fails is not at all fair or even remotely accurate.

In other words, those of you who are glass half empty and negative 98% of the time about everything Canucks, were really cheering the whole time.

 

[Cupless44]

Exactly.

I am critical of the pick. Virtanen was my 3rd choice at the spot at the draft.

I am critical of his development and his abilities. Virtanen had been disappointing for a while, but has been showing improvement lately.

I hope Virtanen becomes an amazing player. I am a fan of the Vancouver Canucks and want our players and prospects to develop into great players so the team can do well.

That's awesome that you will like Jake if he becomes an amazing player, maybe give the guy beyond 19 years of age before your are critical of his abilities.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

 

[Roy Baby*]

The Canucks are my second favorite team, but still bought a Virtanen jersey (Domi's is next )

Once he's comfortable and his conditioning is up, he's gonna be one hell of a player. I like watching hockey a lot, so will always support that #6 pick...but some people are more excited by boxscores it seems.

 

[Cupless44]

The Canucks are my second favorite team, but still bought a Virtanen jersey (Domi's is next )

Once he's comfortable and his conditioning is up, he's gonna be one hell of a player. I like watching hockey a lot, so will always support that #6 pick...but some people are more excited by boxscores it seems.

Yup box scores but advanced stats even more. Though Jake is looking good with Corsi so they should actually like him.

 

[Zombotron]

He's a cheeky, cheeky ****:

But I think JV's character is underrated, especially after watching the unaired TSN piece about his deceased friend. He's definitely got the intestinal fortitude to demolish adversity. We saw it first-hand with his response to the WJC slagging. Vancouver is a meatgrinder - doubly-so because he's a local player - but I'm thinking he's not only going to tolerate it, he's going to thrive, with that ridiculous big-ass grin on his face.

Also, I love that he's not a meathead and is a reasonably-intelligent human being off the ice. Something about him suggests to me that he reads HFBoards.

 

[StIllmatic]

JV was at Biminis last night, a local bar in Kits frequented by UBC students. The one Wednesday I don't go out...

 

[Wang Gretzky]

JV was at Biminis last night, a local bar in Kits frequented by UBC students. The one Wednesday I don't go out...

If you ever wanna see him go to the warehouse Sundays before the Roxy, he's always there along with a couple of canucks and other teams players. just don't look at his girls. He REALLY doesn't like that lol....
He's uhhhhh pretty protective

 

[Bleach Clean]

That's awesome that you will like Jake if he becomes an amazing player, maybe give the guy beyond 19 years of age before your are critical of his abilities.

Why? This makes no sense. Even prospects before they get drafted are critiqued endlessly. What is different now?

Once he's comfortable and his conditioning is up, he's gonna be one hell of a player. I like watching hockey a lot, so will always support that #6 pick...but some people are more excited by boxscores it seems.

The stats are definitely part of the evaluation. They have to be. He was picked ahead of players that have outperformed him in junior/euro leagues/NHL. It matters. By taking them into account, we get to gauge where he is at relative to his peers. A very common practice.

 

[tantalum]

In other words, those of you who are glass half empty and negative 98% of the time about everything Canucks, were really cheering the whole time.

First yes people who are negative about the direction of the team or rather who are at the helm do in fact cheer for the team. I do every night. As I did through every bad year, bad coach and bad management....and holy crap has that been the majority of the time.

And yes, someone can dislike the pick, dislike a perceived lack of progress wth the player but still cheer and hope that player develops into something good. And btw I'm not critical of virtanen or even the pick that much. He was likely picked a bit early then again he also wasn't going to fall much further so I don't see a huge issue with the pick on the surface. But it is a concern if the wrong pick was made. It just is and part of that is going to be ongoing comparisons to those that could have been picked instead. There isn't a Canuck fan on this board that doesn't hope Virtanen becomes the best player from the draft. Not a one. Hell those fans also hope Sbisa becomes a top pairing D-man! But hoping, disappointment and evaluating are things that can easily coexist.

 

[tantalum]

Agree but
Continue to bring up Ehler/Nylander as a comparison isn't one of those three .

Critical of the pick...the first of those three things actually. I could have added several things that can all co-exist. I stopped at three.

Of course people are going to bring up players that could have been drafted instead that may appear to be a better prospect. Doesn't mean they are cheering for Virtanen to fail.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Wonderful photo essay here

http://fortnucks.com/2015/12/15/big-country/

 

[Proto]

Anything's possible but Horvat was aged 2-7 when Reeves played in Vancouver so I don't know how likely it is he had even heard of the player, let alone his nickname. I mean outside of Vancouver, how high of a profile do you think Reeve's had? I'm guessing barely even registered, esp in Rodney Ontario where the Raps and Stoudamire, Mcgrady, and esp Carter would have absorbed 98% of the NBA exposure. And that's assuming 7 year old Bo Horvat wasn't 100% absorbed in hockey and NHL and had any awareness of NBA at all.

Seems far more likely he and Hutton came up with the name just as he says and had no idea of who Reeves was or that the nickname had ever existed before.

Besides, who is Bo Horfat to be making fun of anyone's weight?

You think those guys watch MMA? Google Roy "Big Country" Nelson if you don't know who he is.

Is there anyone on earth nicknamed "Big Country" that isn't being at least lightly ribbed about their weight?

 

[Proto]

No, going overboard and derailing the Virtanen thread with Ehlers talk constantly, degrading him as a player, questioning every aspect of his game, and then turning around pretending your a "real fan of the guy" is disingenuous and nothing but. If you are hyper critical of a player, which a few noted poster are with Virtanen, it's pretty rich to claim you hope for the best out of the guy.

Being critical is one thing but it's been 18 months of hyper critical, over the top doomsday predictions about this player from the usual suspects.

To be clear, YOU are accusing people of changing opinions, forgetting previous opinions, and derailing threads?

Huh. Well, I agree with you. That is incredibly disingenuous and annoying.

 

[CanaFan]

You think those guys watch MMA? Google Roy "Big Country" Nelson if you don't know who he is.

Is there anyone on earth nicknamed "Big Country" that isn't being at least lightly ribbed about their weight?

Ya maybe it's the MMA dude and maybe it is a rib about his weight. I'm just saying I doubt it's a reference to the plodding hick who toiled here for 5 years. If you showed guys like Bo and Hutton a photo of Reeves I doubt they'd have any idea who he is.

 

[Proto]

Ya maybe it's the MMA dude and maybe it is a rib about his weight. I'm just saying I doubt it's a reference to the plodding hick who toiled here for 5 years. If you showed guys like Bo and Hutton a photo of Reeves I doubt they'd have any idea who he is.

They had a Grizzlies night and there's a picture of Jake in this thread wearing a Bryant Reeves jersey (#50 for the Grizzlies). I think they know exactly what they're doing. The fact that Jake is so good natured about it all actually makes me like him a bit more than I did.

 

[Scurr]

The stats are definitely part of the evaluation. They have to be. He was picked ahead of players that have outperformed him in junior/euro leagues/NHL. It matters. By taking them into account, we get to gauge where he is at relative to his peers. A very common practice.

I thought corsi was your stat of choice?