Value of: Jaden Schwartz - St Louis Blues

[St Louis515]

So Jaden is going into his contact year. If the cap stays the same for the next year or two someone is going to have to go. What is he worth this summer, getting a full year out of him and a chance to extend him ?

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[TheImpatientPanther]

Didn't realize he's 27, almost 28 already, feels like he was 23 or 24 for some reason.
Definitely a 1st + mid pick or prospect at minimum
Basically a 20+ goal/55-60pt top 6 player

Wouldn't STL just try and move Steen and use majority of that money and cap to re-sign ?

 

[themelkman]

I could see the sharks interested. Maybe we take him and Allen on to make the return a little less harsh and kill a ton of cap for the blues

 

[CraigsList]

If the Flames ever moved Gaudreau, I wouldn't mind the Flames taking a stab at him. What's the cost if we only acquired him for just a year?

 

[Chubbinz]

All of Steen, Bozak and Allen's contracts expire after next season plus potentially exposing Faulk in the expansion draft. Even if the Blues have to move one of them to make room for a new deal for Petro this summer there will be enough free salary next season to toss some extra salary at Schwartz. Plus the Blues LW depth would be god awful without Schwartz.

 

[Beauterham]

Didn't realize he's 27, almost 28 already, feels like he was 23 or 24 for some reason.
Definitely a 1st + mid pick or prospect at minimum
Basically a 20+ goal/55-60pt top 6 player

Wouldn't STL just try and move Steen and use majority of that money and cap to re-sign ?

A lot of people think the Blues are in cap trouble this year with Petro and Dunn's contract needing to be extended, however, the situation before the 21/22-season could be even worse with Parayko, Schwartz, Binnington, Thomas, Barbashev, Kyrou and Sanford all needing new (and improved) contracts.

Even if you take in account that the contracts of Allen, Bozak's and Steen will be gone before the 21/22-season, that will probably not be enough to give everyone a new improved deal (unless Seattle takes the Faulk-contract). Wouldn't be surprised if a player (not named Parayko/Thomas) would have to be traded/goes in free agency.

 

[BlueDream]

There was just a thread about this a week ago. No, he shouldn’t be available.

 

[57special]

About the same as Zucker, maybe a bit more. Schwartz is better, but Zucker's contract runs longer, which has value.

 

[themelkman]

About the same as Zucker, maybe a bit more. Schwartz is better, but Zucker's contract runs longer, which has value.

I do think Zucker got an inflated price because he was one of the only players of his caliber on the market then, but the summer will have many more options so id expect slightly less for Schwartz. Something like a first and good prospect would be the most likely.

 

[St Louis515]

A lot of people think the Blues are in cap trouble this year with Petro and Dunn's contract needing to be extended, however, the situation before the 21/22-season could be even worse with Parayko, Schwartz, Binnington, Thomas, Barbashev, Kyrou and Sanford all needing new (and improved) contracts.

Even if you take in account that the contracts of Allen, Bozak's and Steen will be gone before the 21/22-season, that will probably not be enough to give everyone a new improved deal (unless Seattle takes the Faulk-contract). Wouldn't be surprised if a player (not named Parayko/Thomas) would have to be traded/goes in free agency.

 

[St Louis515]

That was my thinking, Parayko is going to get big money, likely more than Petro will sign for. Throw in Thomas, and if Binnington keeps playing on the same level, plus the fact the cap might stay flat something has to give. Add in the fact that Jaden will be 28, going into 29 for the new deal, already making close to six million a year, and wanting to cash in on his last big deal he will want term and money. The hope being Kyrou and maybe Kostin ready to fill the void if Schwartz leaves. Also getting at least a decent 1st to help fill in the pipeline.You cann't keep everyone, and the way Schwartz plays it could turn into Steen 2.0 two years into a long term deal.

 

[Mike Liut]

There was just a thread about this a week ago. No, he shouldn’t be available.

Unfortunately, there is no way to extend Schwartz, Petro, Parayko, Binny and some others at the same time. Schwartz is one of my favorite players, but with only one year left, I have a feeling it will be him that gets moved.

 

[57special]

If the 2020-21 season is shortened, the Schwartz will be worth even less. A 1st in the 20's, and a decent prospect. Seems a shame to have to move him, though. He's very much a part of STL, IMO.

 

[CraigBillington]

In a sim league, I traded him for MacKinnon and a first round pick in 2018.
I'd say that's his value

 

[TheBluePenguin]

In a sim league, I traded him for MacKinnon and a first round pick in 2018.
I'd say that's his value

 

[Bluesnatic27]

Unfortunately, there is no way to extend Schwartz, Petro, Parayko, Binny and some others at the same time. Schwartz is one of my favorite players, but with only one year left, I have a feeling it will be him that gets moved.

Uhhh... Why not?

They all are under contract now and with the potential losses of Bozak, Steen, Allen, and/or any other non-essential "bloated" contract should be sufficient for their pay increases. Everyone you mentioned are most likely looking at a $2 - $2.5 million increase at most (and honestly, that's being VERY liberal). In total, that would be about a $8 - $10 million increase across the board, which is offset from loss of Bozak, Steen, and Allen.

Now this is ignoring the substantial increases the Blues will have for Dunn, Thomas, Kyrou, etc. But to suggest that there's no way the Blues can sign all of the bolded seems to suggest an overestimation of what every player will make in their next contract.

 

[Mike Liut]

Uhhh... Why not?

They all are under contract now and with the potential losses of Bozak, Steen, Allen, and/or any other non-essential "bloated" contract should be sufficient for their pay increases. Everyone you mentioned are most likely looking at a $2 - $2.5 million increase at most (and honestly, that's being VERY liberal). In total, that would be about a $8 - $10 million increase across the board, which is offset from loss of Bozak, Steen, and Allen.

Now this is ignoring the substantial increases the Blues will have for Dunn, Thomas, Kyrou, etc. But to suggest that there's no way the Blues can sign all of the bolded seems to suggest an overestimation of what every player will make in their next contract.

You’re underestimating the increases. I bet Parayko and Petro get 8x8 minimum. It’s going to take more than shedding Bozak, Allen and Steen. And Steen won’t be moved. Nobody will take him without a big incentive. Not happening.

 

[Bluesnatic27]

You’re underestimating the increases. I bet Parayko and Petro get 8x8 minimum. It’s going to take more than shedding Bozak, Allen and Steen. And Steen won’t be moved. Nobody will take him without a big incentive. Not happening.

1) It doesn't matter if Steen could be moved or not because his contract ends next year, you know, the same time that Schwartz's contract ends. This goes for Bozak and Allen as well. The only conflict right now is Pietrangelo's contract, which would only require one of the three to be moved. But those contracts have no bearing on any future contract past this season, which means my point still stands for Parayko, Schwartz, and Binnington.

2) I have no idea why you're worried about Parayko's contract when his doesn't end until after the 2021 - 2022 season. The Blues only have 6 current contacts that extend beyond that season. Armstrong will have really screwed something up between then and now to not afford a Parayko extension.

3) How much do you expect Binnington and Schwartz to make? If either of those guys make much more than what I put, then the Blues should walk away from those deals as fast as they can, because those would be some bad contracts to have on hand for more than 4 seasons. That would mean that both Schwartz and Binnington end up with more than $7.8 million and $6.9 million respectively. That's not going to happen unless both put in some crazy elite seasons next year.

4) Even with all of the above laid out, the elimination of the Bozak, Steen, and Allen contracts means that the Blues get $15.15 million in cap space. As I said, the extensions for all of the players listed would be between $8 - $10.5 million, meaning that there's still $4.65 million to work with. Now I did say it was simplistic given that the Blues will have Kyrou, Dunn, Thomas, and other contracts from younger players to worry about. But the thought that a player like Schwartz will have to go because of the contract situation is a fantasy. Could Schwartz leave the Blues? Of course. But he leaves from reasons such as not wanting to be on the team anymore, or the Blues wish to get another player, or something along those lines. Not because of the cap.

 

[Mike Liut]

1) It doesn't matter if Steen could be moved or not because his contract ends next year, you know, the same time that Schwartz's contract ends. This goes for Bozak and Allen as well. The only conflict right now is Pietrangelo's contract, which would only require one of the three to be moved. But those contracts have no bearing on any future contract past this season, which means my point still stands for Parayko, Schwartz, and Binnington.

2) I have no idea why you're worried about Parayko's contract when his doesn't end until after the 2021 - 2022 season. The Blues only have 6 current contacts that extend beyond that season. Armstrong will have really screwed something up between then and now to not afford a Parayko extension.

3) How much do you expect Binnington and Schwartz to make? If either of those guys make much more than what I put, then the Blues should walk away from those deals as fast as they can, because those would be some bad contracts to have on hand for more than 4 seasons. That would mean that both Schwartz and Binnington end up with more than $7.8 million and $6.9 million respectively. That's not going to happen unless both put in some crazy elite seasons next year.

4) Even with all of the above laid out, the elimination of the Bozak, Steen, and Allen contracts means that the Blues get $15.15 million in cap space. As I said, the extensions for all of the players listed would be between $8 - $10.5 million, meaning that there's still $4.65 million to work with. Now I did say it was simplistic given that the Blues will have Kyrou, Dunn, Thomas, and other contracts from younger players to worry about. But the thought that a player like Schwartz will have to go because of the contract situation is a fantasy. Could Schwartz leave the Blues? Of course. But he leaves from reasons such as not wanting to be on the team anymore, or the Blues wish to get another player, or something along those lines. Not because of the cap.

0% chance the Blues can sign Pietrangelo, Parayko, Schwartz, Binnington, Dunn, Kyrou and Thomas. You’re living in a dream world if you think so.

 

[Mike Liut]

2) I have no idea why you're worried about Parayko's contract when his doesn't end until after the 2021 - 2022 season. The Blues only have 6 current contacts that extend beyond that season. Armstrong will have really screwed something up between then and now to not afford a Parayko extension.


huh? We are discussing the extensions to Petro, Schwartz, Dunn, Thomas, Binny and Kyrou. That’s 6 right there. If these players aren’t re-signed, the conversation in invalid.

 

[Bluesnatic27]

2) I have no idea why you're worried about Parayko's contract when his doesn't end until after the 2021 - 2022 season. The Blues only have 6 current contacts that extend beyond that season. Armstrong will have really screwed something up between then and now to not afford a Parayko extension.


huh? We are discussing the extensions to Petro, Schwartz, Dunn, Thomas, Binny and Kyrou. That’s 6 right there. If these players aren’t re-signed, the conversation in invalid.

You never once mentioned Dunn, Kyrou, or Thomas.

In fact, I'm the one that brought those names up. You only mentioned Parayko, Pietrangelo, Schwartz, and Binnington.

 

[Mike Liut]

You never once mentioned Dunn, Kyrou, or Thomas.

In fact, I'm the one that brought those names up. You only mentioned Parayko, Pietrangelo, Schwartz, and Binnington.

my point was, there’s no way to keep everybody. Somebody has to be sacrificed and I agreed with another poster that unfortunately Schwartz will be the one. Of course, this is just my opinion.

 

[BlueDream]

0% chance the Blues can sign Pietrangelo, Parayko, Schwartz, Binnington, Dunn, Kyrou and Thomas. You’re living in a dream world if you think so.

Kyrou hasn’t proven anything. We have no idea if he will ever warrant a sizable contract. So let’s cross that bridge when we get there.

I now think Dunn doesn’t have a long future with the Blues. With Petro (hopefully), Parayko, Faulk and Scandella making a chunk of change, the Blues’ top 4 D will be set and Mikkola and Perunovich are coming. Once the Blues are comfortable the latter 2 can make the transition, I think Dunn is traded in a year. He’s not that good defensively and won’t be a core piece.

Thomas, yes, will get a big contract eventually.

But we also have Allen, Bozak, Steen and Gunnarsson off the books in a year. That’s almost $17 million. That’s a lot of space cleared.

So I don’t see the need to panic and move a core guy yet. Armstrong will have to get creative but if he follows this above plan, we could make it work.

 

[Richard88]

Maybe Sakic can pull a Dale Tallon and trade for a player from a division rival via a 3rd team

 

[Bluesnatic27]

my point was, there’s no way to keep everybody. Somebody has to be sacrificed and I agreed with another poster that unfortunately Schwartz will be the one. Of course, this is just my opinion.

And my point is that what you're saying isn't aligned with the current or future cap situation of the team.

It is entirely possible that the Blues can keep Parayko, Pietrangelo, Schwartz, and Binnington. Even after you decided to move the goalposts, it's still entirely possible to keep those players along with Dunn, Thomas and Kyrou. Why? Because of all the contracts that expire between now and when those players will need substantial increases. At this moment, after next season, the Blues will have $47,300,000 in cap hit tied up between O'Reilly, Tarasenko, Schenn, Perron, Sundqvist, Blais, MacEachern, Parayko, Faulk, Scandella, and Bortuzzo. Assuming the cap stays level, that leaves $34,200,000 for all of the players you mentioned plus the likes of Sanford and Barbeshev. It's not terribly difficult to find a number that works for everyone, especially when Thomas, Kyrou, and Dunn don't have any leverage at this point in their careers to demand a huge contract.

All of this is ignoring the looming expansion draft scheduled to take place after next season as well. If there is a contract the Blues don't particularly like, then there is a pretty simple solution right there to help them out.

Maybe this requires better clarity of language. If you mean that there is no chance the Blues can keep every player currently on the team into the future, then you are indeed correct. But if you mean that the is no chance the Blues can keep Schwartz, Pietrangelo, Parayko, Dunn, Thomas, Kyrou, and Binnington, along with players like O'Reilly, Tarasenko and Schenn then you are simply incorrect.