Iyla Kovalchuk or Brad Marchand?

[Wierzbowski426]

Close in terms of production maybe but Marchand being such a shitty human being makes it really easy to vote for Kovalchuk.

 

[Rhodes 81]

I think the way the 2nd half of Kovalchuk's pro career went makes people forget what a special player he was. If he had one or two more years to shine before being overshadowed by Crosby/Malkin/Ovechkin, he would be a 0 question hall of famer. In a league that was in the earliest transition away from big, physical players to the speed game we've seen now, He was an unbeleivable combination of speed, strength, pace, and had the best total package of shots in the league.

Marchand is great, but he is not capable of the things Kovalchuk circa 2003-2010 was, and I would argue that he has never been close to as important to his team's performance as 2012 Kovalchuk was to the Devils' finals run.

 

[Regal]

You bring up a super valid point. The version of Kovi that wasn’t just a cherry picker once he got to Jersey was a 30 goal, 70 point guy. A lower scoring era, but prime Marchand has been better than that.

I still think that Kovi had another level that Marchand doesn’t have…because Marchand plays hard all the time. But give me Marchand.

Kovalchuk has disappointing production in his 2nd and last seasons in his Jersey tenure, but his one big year in 11-12, he had 37 goals and 83 points in 77 games, while the league was much lower scoring than it has been in recent years. He was 5th in points and 4th in points per game that season. It’s basically like being a 100+ point player today. I don’t think he was quite as dynamic as his earlier years, but I think he showed he could score at a similar level while being a better all around player, he just only really did it the one year, whereas Marchand has done it pretty consistently for quite a few now. Though I think it’s an interesting question whether Kovalchuk could have done it if he had a better team/coach/system from an earlier age.

 

[Regal]

He's a great player but actually not that good defensively

A lot of those things are based on judging time spent away from teammates. Marchand’s defensive numbers are a lot worse away from Bergeron because A) Bergeron’s awesome and B)Marchand frequently plays more offensive minutes when apart, whereas Bergeron would be playing more defensive minutes. They also aren’t separated much, so there’s a lot of noise to filter out. I think Marchand plays pretty offensively focused most of the time, because Bergeron is there to support him, but his defensive skills are still strong when needed. Kovalchuk’s defensive numbers even in Jersey were never strong by advanced metrics either

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Good pole. Really hard.

I think I gotta go with Kovy.

What Marchand says as he's licking other dudes

 

[Panteras]

Kovalchuk was an absolute beast back in the day.
Way more dominant in my opinion than the rat.
He also had a mean side, he could drop the gloves and throw some punches.

 

[Sky04]

You bring up a super valid point. The version of Kovi that wasn’t just a cherry picker once he got to Jersey was a 30 goal, 70 point guy. A lower scoring era, but prime Marchand has been better than that.

I still think that Kovi had another level that Marchand doesn’t have…because Marchand plays hard all the time. But give me Marchand.

In terms of gamebreaking ability sure Kovalchuk has the edge, but Marchands game is more consistent and adaptable to any team/line, give me him on a cup contender.

 

[NordiquesForeva]

Close in terms of production maybe but Marchand being such a shitty human being makes it really easy to vote for Kovalchuk.

On the ice you mean, right? Because by virtually all accounts, Marchand is good person off the ice.

 

[Ace of Hades]

Kovalchuk by a good margin.

 

[Sky04]

I think its close, personally. Kovalchuk was an incredibly gifted player, played on crap teams for the most part in a low-scoring era, and by and large didn't receive as much on-ice support as Marchand (nor, presumably, locker room support from a well-defined, robust team culture like Boston has), but Marchand has been such a consistent and effective player that its hard to knock him here.

All told, I would have liked to have seen Kovalchuk play a few more post-peak years in the NHL, as he had changed his game in an intriguing way while in New Jersey and I feel he left some good NHL years on the table.

Most of his prime was in 05-10' which was a high scoring period, ages 22-26. He only spent 3 years of his prime in low scoring years, 04', 11' and 12'.

As for "crap teams', Kovalchuk played with a plethora of offensive talent, the Trashers were definitely scoring goals throughout the years, that wasn't their issue. He played nearly his entire tenure with Hossa and Kozlov along with Savard and Heatley for parts of it.

Kovalchuk, Savard and Hossa were the 2nd highest scoring line in the league behind Ottawa's big line in 05-06.

Kovalchuk, Kozlov and Hossa were the 4th highest scoring line in the league in 06-07 behind Tampa's and Ottawa's, and San Jose.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Kovalchuk's pure skill and offensive instincts were a tier above Marchand's, but I think Marchand's work ethic, all around game and ability to think the game in different situations put him slightly ahead.

I think the people saying that Kovalchuk's legacy has been tarnished by playing on awful teams are accurate. I know he was a great player, but Marchand just elevated himself more in the playoffs, and Kovalchuk never had the team to go far in the playoffs regardless of how high he elevated himself. The career accomplishments certainly do make a difference in this discussion, and in people's perceptions of both players.

 

[biturbo19]

Kovalchuk better in his prime but Marchand better career

Yeah. Kovalchuk at his peak was an absolute force. I don't think Marchand has ever been that dominant of a player individually. Effective as part of a line, but never really at that level individually.


The careers though, Marchand has been better. Kovalchuk is hard to really judge though, after spending so many of his best years on bad Thrashers teams, or in Russia. If they'd fallen into different situations, i think we would probably have seen very different "career results". But you can't judge on the merit of "what if" hypotheticals.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

Something to remember about how special Kovalchuk was with the Devils in 2012. He scored 4 shorthanded goals and had a positive +/- rating on the PK. Yes they scored more goals shorthanded than they get scored on with Kovy on the ice. This 2012 Devils PK team was historically good.

 

[North Cole]

Imagine using +/- to compare players on different teams. But please keep moving the goal posts.

Didn't you use +/- to compare Gaudreau to Marner...?

Gaudreau is excellent defensively lol, Sutter said he was the team's best checker. Best +/- in a season since Gretzky in the 80s.

Crazy how people can be so unbelievably wrong and still insist on having an opinion.

Idk how Gaudreau is excellent defensively because +/- and at the same time Kovy is good defensively despite being minus a billion.

 

[Wierzbowski426]

On the ice you mean, right? Because by virtually all accounts, Marchand is good person off the ice.

What he does on the ice makes him a shitty person.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Didn't you use +/- to compare Gaudreau to Marner...?

Idk how Gaudreau is excellent defensively because +/- and at the same time Kovy is good defensively despite being minus a billion.

Where did I use +/- to compare Gaudreau to Marner?

 

[Sheppy]

Close in terms of production maybe but Marchand being such a shitty human being makes it really easy to vote for Kovalchuk.

You know him? I’ve heard he’s quite the opposite.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Kovalchuk carries more than March

Kovalchuk also rarely knew what the defensive end of the rink looked like when he put up his offensive seasons whiles Marchand has always been an incredible defensive winger

 

[nbwingsfan]

Marchand was pretty disappointing in the playoffs until they completely stacked his line

11G/19pts as a rookie on a Cup winning team is disappointing? What?

 

[nbwingsfan]

Imagine using +/- to compare players on different teams. But please keep moving the goal posts.

NJ was a very good team the seasons you’re talking about.

Marchand scored way more than Kovalchuk as well if you’re just using two seasons

 

[BraveCanadian]

Don't like him because he's such a rat, but I think Marchand.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

I think the way the 2nd half of Kovalchuk's pro career went makes people forget what a special player he was. If he had one or two more years to shine before being overshadowed by Crosby/Malkin/Ovechkin, he would be a 0 question hall of famer. In a league that was in the earliest transition away from big, physical players to the speed game we've seen now, He was an unbeleivable combination of speed, strength, pace, and had the best total package of shots in the league.

Marchand is great, but he is not capable of the things Kovalchuk circa 2003-2010 was, and I would argue that he has never been close to as important to his team's performance as 2012 Kovalchuk was to the Devils' finals run.

Marchand has quietly been the Bruins MVP over the last handful of seasons. Over Bergeron, McAvoy, Pastrnak, Chara, etc.

 

[nbwingsfan]

You're right, Kovalchuk is better offensively. He put up those points in a way lower scoring period with way less support.

Did Marchand have a 60pt season while in his “prime” like you’re saying Kolvachuks was during his Nj years?

Once he actually started playing D, his offense wasn’t as good as it used to be. Certainly not on Marchand level

 

[Ladyfan]

Marchand was pretty disappointing in the playoffs until they completely stacked his line

yikes. You are wrong

 

[NordiquesForeva]

Marchand has quietly been the Bruins MVP over the last handful of seasons. Over Bergeron, McAvoy, Pastrnak, Chara, etc.

That's borne out in Hart voting, too.