It's over, now let's fix it. Keyboard GMs unite.

[BTCG]

Agreed about Ovechkin's unwillingness to back check, but disagree on the bolded and it being about leadership.

Ovechkin has never been a beast at back-checking. He times most of his hits well, but he has rarely shown the ability to read the opponent's offensive play and intercept a pass to take up ice or place a well-timed stick lift/poke check. At this point in his career/life, IMO, he's been indoctrinated with such an offense first attitude that it's unlikely he will ever be able to learn to think differently.

That isn't necessarily entirely a bad thing, assuming he is able to produce offensively when it counts. This year, he didn't in the playoffs (but did in the regular season).


As far as leadership goes.. sure, making solid defensive plays in your own zone may inspire your team some intangible amount, but if Ovechkin is scoring goals/setting up successful plays, he's already done his job. It's clearly arguable based on the team's record when he scores a goal versus when he does not. Maybe the team loses some confidence in him when he fails to backcheck, but it's all negated when he produces offensively as he's paid top-dollar to do.

Points to you for the underlined portion. You are spot-on.

As to D and leadership, what you've actually succeeded in doing is explaining why AO ought NOT be wearing the C.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Seems to me in the playoffs a good defense trumps a good offense. This is magnified because apparently the rules are different in the playoffs and refs refuse to call certain penalties that they called all year. This hurts a team like the Caps the most because they have the best power play, and they rely on it.

This team isn't really built for swarming defense.

 

[RandyHolt]

Watching the kings game last night randomly late in the 2nd for about 10 minutes, and i was seeing hitting from all players. That level of physical commitment is what our team lacks.

Its the one way to counter our finesse or bust offense. Good post Midnight.

Ovi had 13 hits!!!1! is meaningless when he is the only one hitting, and does not come close to scoring, and the series is ending.

Our 4th line was soft as butter and near invisible until Wilson got in. Nick hit nothing. MJ hit some but they do no damage. Ribs didnt hit until late in the series. MP gets a pass, Ward can certainly do a lot more, but that is not him. John Carlson only logged 4 hits in the series, a team low, Flash like numbers Did any Rag LW fear getting hit flying down the wing in game 7? Alzner and Green could have hit more although clearly Alzner upped his game.

Maybe leadership brings out that team physicality, but I tend to doubt it. Ovi hits like crazy and all seem to sit back and watch. Then also disappears (think games 3-6). Its always 1 or 2 guys lifting and bunch of passengers. Today its Ovi, tomorrow its Chimera, next day Brouwer, next day Erskine.

It's more likely the players George acquires. I want him to target players that coaches do not have to beg to play physical going forward, and dump the ones that refuse to commit.

 

[Stewie G]

The Caps need someone like Matt Greene, although that might make the "No Relation" drinking game a potentially lethal pasttime.

 

[strungout]

Watching the kings game last night randomly late in the 2nd for about 10 minutes, and i was seeing hitting from all players. That level of physical commitment is what our team lacks.

Its the one way to counter our finesse or bust offense. Good post Midnight.

Ovi had 13 hits!!!1! is meaningless when he is the only one hitting, and does not come close to scoring, and the series is ending.

Our 4th line was soft as butter and near invisible until Wilson got in. Nick hit nothing. MJ hit some but they do no damage. Ribs didnt hit until late in the series. MP gets a pass, Ward can certainly do a lot more, but that is not him. John Carlson only logged 4 hits in the series, a team low, Flash like numbers Did any Rag LW fear getting hit flying down the wing in game 7? Alzner and Green could have hit more although clearly Alzner upped his game.

Maybe leadership brings out that team physicality, but I tend to doubt it. Ovi hits like crazy and all seem to sit back and watch. Then also disappears (think games 3-6). Its always 1 or 2 guys lifting and bunch of passengers. Today its Ovi, tomorrow its Chimera, next day Brouwer, next day Erskine.

It's more likely the players George acquires. I want him to target players that coaches do not have to beg to play physical going forward, and dump the ones that refuse to commit.

Why does MP get a pass?

 

[RandyHolt]

MP gets a pass because he is tiny and centered our best line. He is not a hitter.

I feel fairly sure Nick was on the mend in this series, although we all know playing physical is not his game. Let's say MJ is a fixture at 1LW going forward. That is a soft top line that does not seem built to survive a cup run. Ovi can throw a hundred hits to make up for it but in the end he is pulling 2 passengers, and likely not scoring.

On a side note, Dustin Brown is a beast and wish we had him.

Our 2nd line was meh. Erat actually hits when not injured, Brouwer hits. Ribs is always angry, but they have to score when our top line is not.

Our 3rd line was awesome and gets a free pass no matter what. I imagine the MP haters are still licking their wounds

Our 4th line was laughable. Hendy Beagle Ward scared and hit no one.

Carlson at 4M seems overpaid to be stuck behind Green for the next 3 years. I wonder what sort of return he would fetch. If he is not going to play physical in the playoffs and take off much of the regular season, I wouldn't mind George dangling him out for someone of his ilk more physical / less offense. Kundratek can pinch hit on the PP and seemed ready to be an NHL D to me. Hitting starts on defense since forwards are always easy targets and we could use an upgrade. Its Erskine or bust in our top 4.

I am sure George is thrilled with the status quo but think getting Latta Volpatti and Wilson into the lineup is exactly what this team needs. Erat at 1LW would help if he can stay healthy.

 

[Langway]

It's not just being physical that counts it's being physical within the flow of the game. Pittsburgh is physical but against Boston they haven't been physical within the flow of the game. They've been reckless in its utilization. The Caps don't even have much of a willingness, to say nothing of the necessary timing for it to be particularly impactful. They were closer to having that timing down with Hunter since their style was so much simpler. Now they've got the similar possession woes with even less bite.

One way or another they need to get their timing down if they're ever going to do anything. If it's not a physical lineup then it needs to be efficient and flow in its puck distribution. Without even that it's hard to think how they'd win aside from Holtby/luck but perhaps that's good enough for them.

 

[brs03]

Focusing on "hits" (especially those recorded by the stat) strikes me as looking at the wrong thing, though I admit it's hard to avoid since that's one of the only ways to quantify it. Physical play as Langway describes is obviously very important. "Hits" are not; the team with more "hits" tends to lose, since that's usually also the team that doesn't have the puck as often.

I don't care so much whether the Caps area team that tries to go for a gutty physical game or a speedier counterattack game or whatever. Be physical enough to play your game in any situation; it's not about initiating, it's about weathering the storm from the other team. Don't wilt.

I don't know where I rank that among the Caps' issues. I currently care more about the 2nd line's 2-way issues right now, and certainly the D's, that's for sure.

 

[Stewie G]

Focusing on "hits" (especially those recorded by the stat) strikes me as looking at the wrong thing, though I admit it's hard to avoid since that's one of the only ways to quantify it. Physical play as Langway describes is obviously very important. "Hits" are not; the team with more "hits" tends to lose, since that's usually also the team that doesn't have the puck as often.

I don't care so much whether the Caps area team that tries to go for a gutty physical game or a speedier counterattack game or whatever. Be physical enough to play your game in any situation; it's not about initiating, it's about weathering the storm from the other team. Don't wilt.

I don't know where I rank that among the Caps' issues. I currently care more about the 2nd line's 2-way issues right now, and certainly the D's, that's for sure.

Hits... the next frontier for advanced stats. Throw pucks at the net from anywhere and load up with Schultzes and that's pretty much an automatic win.

 

[Liberati0n*]

Hits... the next frontier for advanced stats. Throw pucks at the net from anywhere and load up with Schultzes and that's pretty much an automatic win.

You don't have to like advanced stats to know that the team without the puck is more likely to throw hits. Look at Ovechkin's game 7 as an example.

 

[brs03]

Ovi is also someone who tends to either score goals or record lots of "hits," but not do both in a given game. Love his physicality, but maybe it's a focus thing for him, I don't know.

 

[Liberati0n*]

Ovi is also someone who tends to either score goals or record lots of "hits," but not do both in a given game. Love his physicality, but maybe it's a focus thing for him, I don't know.

I think there are times when he comes out hitting, scores before too long, and maybe settles down or, yeah, shifts his focus. I think it helps feed his energy, but when he's doing it all game it usually seems like the result of offensive frustration and trying to just do something.

 

[coyote]

Although OV is a great individual player he does not make players around him better. Players like Crosby, Gretzky, Mario for example made players around them alot better. They made plays whereas OV is more of a scorer than a play maker.

 

[RandyHolt]

When Ovi is logging 13 hits yet his line can barely muster 1 quality scoring chance in a game 7, it is not a recipe for success. It just isn't.

We can pay 4th line money to a Lou Franceshetti type and get the same results, and just swap him out with MJ. Let Ovi pounce on turnovers, not create them.

Instead of 13 hits in G7, maybe 4 hits in games 4-7 would have been a better goal. It just came across as over compensating, frustration, desperation, or maybe it was a lack of focus. I love hitting more than anyone yet that was a bit out of sorts. Boston thanked him.

If those hits were generating turnovers and QSCs, that is one thing, but they were not. Ovi hitting is not how that line generates chances, they largely score off the rush.

I think it was a result of that line sucking horribly in the series. He did what he could I suppose but any chemistry on display in the RS was long gone from those 3. He played like an individual. Does anyone remember Nick or MJ doing anything in that game?

That line was so ripe for a shakeup. Ribs up to 1C for game 7 desperate maybe, but our scoring lines were a mess. All series, easily punked by our 3rd line.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Although OV is a great individual player he does not make players around him better. Players like Crosby, Gretzky, Mario for example made players around them alot better. They made plays whereas OV is more of a scorer than a play maker.

So he had nothing to do with Chris Clark scoring 30, Zubrus putting up his two best career years centering Ovy, and Backstrom putting up a 100+ pt season, not to mention Green's accomplishments.

This notion is fantasy.

 

[Stewie G]

You don't have to like advanced stats to know that the team without the puck is more likely to throw hits. Look at Ovechkin's game 7 as an example.

I didn't disagree with that. I was just pointing out that I've identified the next big thing in possession stats. Stewie%!

 

[Liberati0n*]

So he had nothing to do with Chris Clark scoring 30, Zubrus putting up his two best career years centering Ovy, and Backstrom putting up a 100+ pt season, not to mention Green's accomplishments.

This notion is fantasy.

I mean, helping them score more and "making them better" aren't necessarily the same thing.

 

[txpd]

Points to you for the underlined portion. You are spot-on.

As to D and leadership, what you've actually succeeded in doing is explaining why AO ought NOT be wearing the C.

ovechkin doesnt read for an intercept or a stick lift? really.

 

[Ajax1995]

I mean, helping them score more and "making them better" aren't necessarily the same thing.

I'd argue in the context we are talking about, two players who had no business playing on the 1st line on any NHL team performing at a more than adequate level makes them exactly the same thing.

What else was rookie and 2nd year Ovechkin supposed to do?

 

[Chokingdogs]

The Caps need someone like Matt Greene, although that might make the "No Relation" drinking game a potentially lethal pasttime.

that, literally, had me LOLing.

love me some Joe B, but that along with his - head up, looking to create - get used far too often.

 

[ChibiPooky]

that, literally, had me LOLing.

love me some Joe B, but that along with his - head up, looking to create - get used far too often.

Don't forget "xxxx is looking to help his own cause" (when a goalie plays the puck)

 

[Liberati0n*]

I'd argue in the context we are talking about, two players who had no business playing on the 1st line on any NHL team performing at a more than adequate level makes them exactly the same thing.

What else was rookie and 2nd year Ovechkin supposed to do?

Nothing really. The point is that increasing linemates' production and "making them better" aren't really the same thing, in general.

 

[BTCG]

ovechkin doesnt read for an intercept or a stick lift? really.

Read it again: never said that AO is unable. Rather, these are not things he does well consistently.

 

[Ajax1995]

Nothing really. The point is that increasing linemates' production and "making them better" aren't really the same thing, in general.

I think it depends on the position/role of the players in question. When (enter your favorite North American main steam hockey media member here) says 'Crosby makes his linemates better' they mean increasing their production.

For a veteran player brought in to play with and/or mentor a younger guy that may not necessarily be the case especially if we are talking about a guy not really playing an offensive role.

But said in reference to Ovechkin, just like Crosby, it means increasing the production of the guys on the ice with him.

 

[Kegger]

Those crapping on the Fenwick "possession" stats....interesting that the top 4 from the regular season includes LA, Chicago, and Boston.