It is time we admit!

Discussion in 'Russia' started by malkins, Feb 22, 2018.

  1. malkins Registered User

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    There are not that many die-hard Russian hockey fans you would ever find, as myself, yet....
    We have been in a submissive state for decades!
    Tretyak has got to go! He was a true legend back in the days, but knows nothing about the present hockey!
    Ovechkin, Malkin, Datsyuk have had carried our banners for years without reprise! They are our legends amongst Kharlamovs, Larionovs, Fetisovs, Bures, Mogilnys and Fedorovs of our time!
    Our system is corrupt and is a need of a major change! We do have some of the finest talent in the world, when it comes to hockey, then why are loosing that much?
     
    kp61c likes this.
  2. vorky @vorkywh24

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    You may disagree with me, but all problem begins in media. How a hockey or the KHL/MHL/VHL are covered. Of course, not all media are the same, some are really good. Some guys use every opportunity to bash the KHL & glorify the NHL at the same time. For example sports.ru, they are very anti-KHL and anti-Chernyshenko. Why? Because they have some legal disputes with MatchTV which is run by Chernyshenko. Of course there are reasons to criticise the KHL or the FHR, but not in a way how it is done. Or, if you follow one balashika guy, you get an impression that his only reason to cover hockey is to get a free pizza at KHL´s events. Some Tatarstan media cover the changes of youth hockey in the republic, how they started the hockey academy with modern developping methods. Hope they will expand with their training methods to whole Russia. That is how a hockey should be covered.
     
  3. XeroKaos Registered User

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    Russia has a lack of elite defenders. Ivan Provorov (21) of the Flyers and Mikhail Sergachev (19) of the Lightning are promising young talents, but Russia has for some reason failed to produce elite defenders at the same rate as countries like Canada, Sweden, Finland has. The result expectedly is failure at best vs best tournaments.
     
  4. cska78 Registered User

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    it's always been a problem, when most of your d-men are failed forwards.
    There was a time we had a lot more quality d-men, they were products of a soviet system though.

    i would add Voinov, if not the wife issue, he would have been a solid career long NHLer
     
  5. SoundAndFury Registered User

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    This is actually pretty funny. The OP states "Russian hockey has issues", vorky replies "all problems begin in media". So if Russian media covered hockey more positively Russia would start winning more? How does that even make sense.

    They don't, they really don't.
     
  6. Alessandro Seren Rosso Registered User

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    Well, as you quoted yourself, he said that the problems BEGIN in media
     
  7. Yakushev72 Registered User

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    Russia functioning as an export source for hockey players has worked out well for the players, and for the NHL/CHL, but it has been a consistent failure for Russia in international competition. Russia may develop a few outstanding talents like Ovechkin, Datsyuk, and Malkin, but then they don't see them again until its time to retire, when their value has been significantly degraded. So the Russian system essentially prepares them to make billions in attendance, merchandise and TV contracts for rich NHL owners, and then gets nothing back on the other side. In short, it means Russia is stuck at #3, 4 or 5, in international competition, and there is really nothing on the horizon to get out of the mud.
     
  8. vorky @vorkywh24

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    And this applies to Sweden, Finland, Czechs as well. The sad part is that Swedes, Finns and Czechs are proud to have so many NHLers!

     
  9. Yakushev72 Registered User

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    Sweden and Finland are perfect examples of small, homogeneous countries that use their relative wealth to build highly successful programs. For them, the desired avenue is to grow up in the homogeneous home hockey systems, but then to migrate for successful careers to the NHL. They don't have home-grown international pro leagues, so their main goal is to place players in the NHL, and they measure their success by being an NHL farm country.
     
  10. vorky @vorkywh24

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    Fine, they can do whatever they want inside their country. But pls, do not act on behalf of Europe. You know who helped to negotiate the latest NHL Transfer Agreement for rest of Europe - Swedes. Where is based the European Hockey Association? Sweden. Who is a managing director of the EHC? A Swede. Swedes have influence on the CHL. If Sweden is so NHL centric, why to give them so much power inside European hockey?
     
  11. Yakushev72 Registered User

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    This is the point I was trying to make. Swedish hockey exists to feed into the NHL. Their domestic league is designed to be mildly entertaining, but the best players are encouraged and expected to go overseas to NA. The KHL is trying to build a viable pro league of high quality in Europe. Success will be contingent on the KHL's ability to keep the best players at home. As of the current date, no European countries - not even Russia - are having any success in attracting players to stay home. But the KHL should not be discouraged, and it should not be dismayed by having to drop teams that cannot exist financially. I keep reminding people that up until 1967, the NHL had only 6 teams. I don't think Russia would allow the KHL to dissolve and disband, so they should continue to try to make it work.
     
  12. vorky @vorkywh24

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    I understand you and I agree. The goal of European leagues should be 1. keep players at home & promote their domestic league, 2. negotiate global transfer rules which are beneficial for Europe, so fair compensation for prospects or fair rules (aka respecting player´s contract in Europe) if a player moves outside Europe. Yes, it is not an easy task. My point is that Sweden does not even try to achieve these goals. You described Swedes in the same way. And those Swedes have power on European hockey. Not good.
     
  13. alko Registered User

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    How popular is ice-hockey in Russia? Some say, it is not so popular between people, as we think. Soccer should be way more discussed on regular basis, that ice-hockey.

    It is really so?
     
  14. MaxV Registered User

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    Depends on the region.
     
  15. alko Registered User

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    Exhausting answer. Thank you. :sarcasm: Who is next?
     
  16. MaxV Registered User

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    Well look at Dagestan for example. That region is producing world class athletes in every combat sport. They don’t really care about anything else.

    Yaroslavl, Chelyabinsk and Magnitogorsk are hockey hot beds that dont care about anything else.

    Soccer has its following but I don’t know if any region is really crazy about it.
     
  17. Yakushev72 Registered User

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    Hockey is popular in European Russia and the Urals, Siberia and the Far East. Levels of development (i.e., indoor rinks, coaching, funding) varies widely over these territories. Most of the best players come from a limited range of hockey schools in the cities mentioned by MaxV and a few others. On a per capita basis, the funded infrastructure is well behind Canada, Sweden, Finland and even the US.
     
  18. vorky @vorkywh24

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    I would say that Tatarstan has the best hockey infrastructure in Russia if comparing to other regions (federal subjects). Tatarstan is also the first region who is preparing a development programms and hockey academies, the project is run by Zakharkin.
     
  19. XeroKaos Registered User

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    I think its more accurate to say that Sweden and Finland measure their success according to their medal haul at international tournaments, gold - silver - bronze.
     
  20. Yakushev72 Registered User

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    International tournaments are a different subject altogether. Of course, all countries hope to win international medals.
     
  21. Albatros Registered User

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    Also, but not only. Success of individual players in the NHL seems sometimes bigger than the domestic league, which is quite odd. Especially now that these players aren't even free to play for the country in the Olympics. Stockholm syndrome of sorts, maybe.
     
  22. VoluntaryDom Formerly DominicBoltsFan / GT Computer Science '24

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    I see what you did there
     

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