It is time for Refs to leave their opinions off the ice

Orfieus

Registered User
Nov 2, 2012
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Atlantic Canada
Pisses me off that a Refs opinion can determine a game. It is time for the Refs keep their opinions to them selves and start calling everything they see. A penalty is a penalty no matter what the time is in the game.

It frustrates me to high end.
 

Doctor No

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Oct 26, 2005
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You realize that referees are humans, and that therefore there will be always be "opinions" of what constitutes a penalty?

Your complaint is unsolvable (and not particularly ground breaking, either).
 

Orfieus

Registered User
Nov 2, 2012
3,523
2,040
Atlantic Canada
You realize that referees are humans, and that therefore there will be always be "opinions" of what constitutes a penalty?

Your complaint is unsolvable (and not particularly ground breaking, either).

Take it you never heard of the saying "the refs have put away the whistle"

edit: or when one team has been called a few penalties then you know the next call will be the other team. **** like that
 

Doctor No

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Oct 26, 2005
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Take it you never heard of the saying "the refs have put away the whistle"

edit: or when one team has been called a few penalties then you know the next call will be the other team. **** like that

No, I've heard of both of those things.

It's like you're not responding to what I actually said.
 

I Hate Blake Coleman

Bandwagon Burner
Jul 22, 2008
23,647
7,515
Saskatchewan
I think the refs need to be a little bit more overzealous and start calling penalties like their job says. BUT! I do not have a problem with discretion calls. If someone high sticks a diver like Kesler and doesn't get called, I have no problem. Likewise, if Torres lands a legal hit late in the game and he gets thrown out, I'm all for it.
 

SillyRabbit

Trix Are For Kids
Jan 3, 2006
8,081
7,190
This will never, ever happen.

The NHL, like many other major sports leagues, suffer from the "Rubberband effect."

Essentially, they will always try to keep the penalties (and to a lesser extent, the score) for each team within a close proximity.

If one team gets too many powerplays in a row, expect there to be even-up calls on the weakest of plays in order to ensure that no one team has a major advantage.

Referees think that keeping the calls somewhat even between the teams will show that they are unbiased. Unfortunately what this actually means is that playing disciplined isn't rewarded as much as it should be, because even if your team draws a lot of penalties and doesn't commit any, the refs will find a way to put the other team on the powerplay to keep the calls between the teams close.

It essentially benefits teams that play on the edge, because even if they do get called for penalties, they will most likely get their own powerplays throughout the game even if the other team is playing disciplined.

An example of this is the 2011 Stanley Cup Finals where the Bruins played extremely aggressive and on the edge. The Canucks tried to play disciplined, and in the end both teams ended up with a similar number of powerplays despite the drastic difference in playstyle.

This aggressive playstyle gave the Bruins the edge in other areas of the game and didn't hurt them in teams of powerplay's for / against.

TLDR: Referees will always try to keep the calls somewhat even, regardless of if one team is playing extremely disciplined and one team is playing extremely reckless. Very rarely will you see a large disparity between powerplay opportunities unless something dirty went down.
 

Spazkat

Registered User
Feb 19, 2015
4,361
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I think the refs need to be a little bit more overzealous and start calling penalties like their job says. BUT! I do not have a problem with discretion calls. If someone high sticks a diver like Kesler and doesn't get called, I have no problem. Likewise, if Torres lands a legal hit late in the game and he gets thrown out, I'm all for it.

So you don't actually want the refs calling all the penalties by the book and doing their jobs... you just want them to have the same biases you do. Cool
 

Michael Farkas

Celebrate 68
Jun 28, 2006
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No way man! I want every single thing called exactly by the book, sterile game. Every whack is a slash no matter what, every net front battle is a crosscheck no matter what...hell...I mean, heck...isn't cursing on the books as well? Let's start ringing up coaches for that...

Power plays all day. Standing around and passing while one team can ice it and change. That's the hockey I want to see. No flow. Just whistles and uneven manpower situations...
 

IcedCapp

Registered User
Aug 7, 2009
35,933
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No way man! I want every single thing called exactly by the book, sterile game. Every whack is a slash no matter what, every net front battle is a crosscheck no matter what...hell...I mean, heck...isn't cursing on the books as well? Let's start ringing up coaches for that...

Power plays all day. Standing around and passing while one team can ice it and change. That's the hockey I want to see. No flow. Just whistles and uneven manpower situations...

Exactly how it should be. Then players will learn to stop doing those things and the PPs will stop!

Amazing how there is a rule book and you're borderline whining about it being enforced instead of blaming the players for breaking the rules.

I don't care what the rules are, but if you don't want to enforce them 100% of the time, do away with them.
 

Michael Farkas

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It's also dangerous...look at 2006 and 2007...they did call way too much stuff, players were unchecked and they could fly around the ice with impunity...heat-seeking missiles...defensemen got destroyed because goalies can't play the puck and forecheckers with a 100 foot head start got to tee off on anyone they wanted...rosters are too large and the game is too fast for its own good...

So, indirectly, you're opening up a serious, maybe grave, safety issue because you want no touching (no touching!) everywhere on the surface...

I'm telling you, as a ref and a coach that you don't want that...the consequences of that would render the game useless...

It's like calling holding or pass interference on every play in the NFL...do you really want "100%" penalty calling...the game would become instantly unwatchable...travelling in the NBA, games would end 34-32...not reasonable, tenable or realistic...
 

jw2

Registered User
Jun 13, 2012
7,081
430
Boston
What could this possibly even mean?

By the way, "letting them play" influences the game just as much as calling things strictly.

Only if they randomly call a penalty they've let go all game.


Nintendo has a built in ai/ei that starts calling penalties on winning teams so games are close.
 

jw2

Registered User
Jun 13, 2012
7,081
430
Boston
It's also dangerous...look at 2006 and 2007...they did call way too much stuff, players were unchecked and they could fly around the ice with impunity...heat-seeking missiles...defensemen got destroyed because goalies can't play the puck and forecheckers with a 100 foot head start got to tee off on anyone they wanted...rosters are too large and the game is too fast for its own good...

So, indirectly, you're opening up a serious, maybe grave, safety issue because you want no touching (no touching!) everywhere on the surface...

I'm telling you, as a ref and a coach that you don't want that...the consequences of that would render the game useless...

It's like calling holding or pass interference on every play in the NFL...do you really want "100%" penalty calling...the game would become instantly unwatchable...travelling in the NBA, games would end 34-32...not reasonable, tenable or realistic...

Younger generation (most posters) didn't watch games in the 80s or early 90s to see how "interference" was used to create offense.
 

deckercky

Registered User
Oct 27, 2010
9,379
2,452
I think the refs need to be a little bit more overzealous and start calling penalties like their job says. BUT! I do not have a problem with discretion calls. If someone high sticks a diver like Kesler and doesn't get called, I have no problem. Likewise, if Torres lands a legal hit late in the game and he gets thrown out, I'm all for it.

Those are exactly te most problematic ones - the refs are relying on a player's reputation more than the act.
 

deckercky

Registered User
Oct 27, 2010
9,379
2,452
It's also dangerous...look at 2006 and 2007...they did call way too much stuff, players were unchecked and they could fly around the ice with impunity...heat-seeking missiles...defensemen got destroyed because goalies can't play the puck and forecheckers with a 100 foot head start got to tee off on anyone they wanted...rosters are too large and the game is too fast for its own good...

So, indirectly, you're opening up a serious, maybe grave, safety issue because you want no touching (no touching!) everywhere on the surface...

I'm telling you, as a ref and a coach that you don't want that...the consequences of that would render the game useless...

It's like calling holding or pass interference on every play in the NFL...do you really want "100%" penalty calling...the game would become instantly unwatchable...travelling in the NBA, games would end 34-32...not reasonable, tenable or realistic...

If you want to stop defencemen from getting destroyed on the forecheck, make it a penalty to destroy the defenceman on the forecheck (I think that falls under the definition of charging in most cases).

Also, I can see the argument for allowing some interference to slow the game in transition, when there's actually speed, but when the play is established in either end there's no excuse for allowing any interference.
 

Michael Farkas

Celebrate 68
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Younger generation (most posters) didn't watch games in the 80s or early 90s to see how "interference" was used to create offense.

Right. And it still is today, but it goes both ways.

I think a lot of fans not knowing the rules is also a factor. It's also the lowest hanging fruit with replays and such. It's akin to yelling "shoot" on a power play.

It doesn't make the officiating good, bad or otherwise...and sometimes the people that yell "shoot" aren't wrong either...but it doesn't make it poignant discussion.

I think a mountain gets made out of a mole hill with it...a lot, and by a lot, I mean most of the stuff that is complained about WRT officiating on hockey message boards is not in the realm "correct"...and it covers a lot of ground easily for discussion purposes: It's something to say when you cannot or do not want to comment on the game itself, no doubt it will be popular because everyone complains about officials, so there's no chance anyone will call you out for being wrong (which is a YUGE deal on the internet and in real life), it's a built-in excuse for your team's failure and the other team's success, it has heavy and inherent confirmation bias, as no one notices officials unless they "mess up" in their own mind and once they do once, that's it, they had a "bad" game...no one ever comments on a "good" game, no official has ever had a good game...and in extreme cases, it lends itself to being the worst person to have a discussion with: a conspiracy theorist...

Officiating can always improve. But unfortunately, it's used as a crutch way too often...under the left arm, "fans" use it as a reason to complain and talk in place of actual game talk, to the point that it makes you wonder if they know what's going on on the ice at any time at all sometimes...under the right arm, there's this vague concept that the league's officiating is keeping it from being a more popular sport in America...which makes no sense, as how would the people that don't watch it know any better and how would people know that that the officiating is bad unless they watched every night? And that's beyond the well-staked claim that the NBA is the worst officiated league in America ripe with documented game-fixing...bad enough, that the league issues a three minute apology every night of the playoffs on TNT or whatever...naturally, the NHL is not far behind the NBA (and is ahead in many shared markets), despite it having a big head start in many ways...did people tune out when the "replacement refs" came into the NFL? Seems unlikely. The NFL and MLB have video review systems that appear to not even fix incorrect calls (particularly, the NFL) or even erase correct calls...and let's not even get on the FIFA train, I don't think anyone complains more about anything than that corrupt entity...most popular sport in the world still? By a mile.

It can improve in any sport, just like the players could and the coaches could. Unlike being a professional athlete or athlete in general, officiating in any sport is accessible for most. There are clinics for it in every sport around the country. House leagues, youth leagues, semi-pro leagues, amateur leagues all pay for quality officials...you can work your way up the ladder, and if you're as good at picking out what the best in the world do (and as someone that watches other leagues on a semi-regular basis, these guys are clearly the best in the world) from your couch, then you will be dynamite on the ice or on the diamond or the floor...and if you're not, at least maybe it will give you some better perspective...
 

Michael Farkas

Celebrate 68
Jun 28, 2006
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If you want to stop defencemen from getting destroyed on the forecheck, make it a penalty to destroy the defenceman on the forecheck (I think that falls under the definition of charging in most cases).

Also, I can see the argument for allowing some interference to slow the game in transition, when there's actually speed, but when the play is established in either end there's no excuse for allowing any interference.

So...the rule is don't skate too fast into other players? How fast is too fast?

The guy is coming off the bench, he's F1, the defenseman is on a retrieval...what should he do?
 

Doctor No

Registered User
Oct 26, 2005
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Only if they randomly call a penalty they've let go all game.

Wrong. In any and all circumstances, the amount that the officials call penalties (from none to all) directly and significantly influences the game.

I think where you're confused is that you don't see it as "influencing" the game, so long as the officials call the game in the fashion that you prefer. It still influences the game.
 

Michael Farkas

Celebrate 68
Jun 28, 2006
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Those are exactly te most problematic ones - the refs are relying on a player's reputation more than the act.

When you're a player, you ought to know who you are out there against. When you're a ref (and I am), you know who you're officiating. It doesn't make sense any other way.

If you plant corn, you grow corn. You want to throw your head back every time a stick hits your chest, well, I'm gonna learn that you throw your head back every time a stick hits your chest. So, now, since I don't have the benefit of slow motion replay on the ice, I see a stick that looks like it hit you in the chest from my perspective but really, it nipped your whiskers, and I don't call it because you've shown it up before...

Plant corn, grow corn.
 

cowboy82nd

Registered User
Feb 19, 2012
5,113
2,320
Newnan, Georgia
I don't believe the Refs call everything they see and influence the game

But the point is, that they don't call everything and therefore they do influence the game. I remember when some rookie player was complaining about not receiving a call and a ref was quoted as saying something like, you haven't been here (NHL) long enough to get that call. That's BS. It doesn't matter who the player is, when in the game it is, or if it's a playoff game or not, call the penalty when the penalty happens, EVERYTIME!!!!!!!
 

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