Isles Should Rebuild

[Osakahaus]

The Isles have to go scorched earth or otherwise try to retool around a Barzal/Dobson/Horvat/Sorokin core and be at best a wildcard team.

They play in the most mid division ever. They'll keep making it because everyone else continues to trip over each other

 

[HFpapi]

They play in the most mid division ever. They'll keep making it because everyone else continues to trip over each other

It is a very mid division but I can see the Rags and Canes being very good teams for another 3-4 years and by then Devils, Jackets, and maybe Flyers being good.

The Devils are a much better team than what they showed this year and I fully expect them back in the hunt next season. CLB I'm not really sure what went wrong but I like the pieces they have tbh.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Barzal is like Long Island's Dylan Larkin. If that's your 2nd best player, you're in a real good position, if he's your best player you're treading water. They are like the East Coast Winnipeg Jets. You're looking at what the Red Wings are in danger of turning into i.e. middling and just there for the purpose of making their owners some money by feigning competitiveness.

 

[ScaredStreit]

Scorched Earth is a crapshoot and usually wild car spot is best case scenario for teams even after years of rebuilding.

Isles have a solid core to build around in the names you mentioned...moving them for draft picks which may or may not pan out is a big gamble. The picks probably wont be as promising as those players. Dobson is turning into a legit #1 defenseman, Sorokin although a down year is a Vezina finalist, and Horvat/Barzal are legit #1 centers/fire liners (even if they're on the lower end of the spectrum). Their problem is the rest of their roster.

 

[Osakahaus]

Barzal is like Long Island's Dylan Larkin. If that's your 2nd best player, you're in a real good position, if he's your best player you're treading water. They are like the East Coast Winnipeg Jets. You're looking at what the Red Wings are in danger of turning into i.e. middling and just there for the purpose of making their owners some money by feigning competitiveness.

Barzal is a very good player and so was Horvat this season. I will argue that the issue is not him, its that they didn't get the same quality of production out of their other lines once Roy came over. I feel as if the biggest difference between the Isles and both Carolina and the Rangers is that those two teams have a quality 2C, while Nelson is okay but no longer in that echelon of being really good.

also the PK sucks. You badly need to fix it because I attribute that to the islanders being awful at stretches and Sorokin becoming mortal this season.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

No NHL team coming off a .573 season is going to try, or realistically get, close to the top seed in the draft lottery.

Rebuilds are like bankruptcy, teams are forced into them by losing.

YUP!

Being a bubble team without elite talent means you're just bottoming out slower, but you're still bottoming out. It'll just take you 3-4 years to get to the "bottoming out" part.

Do you think the Blackhawks wanted to rebuild? Nope, they just got too old, expensive, and ineffective. Same thing is happening to Penguins and Capitals, and Sharks.
These teams traded for Erik Karlsson, Seth Jones, and recent Vezina winner in Fleury.

Does anyone even remember what kickstarted the "Senators rebuild"? It was trading a 1st for Duchene with the intent of competing for a cup.


Horvat, Pulock, and Pelech are all 29. They will likely get worse and worse year after year. You can't "Build" around them. You're trying to "win now" with them, and their absolute best got them swept in the 1st round. It's downhill from here.

Lee is 33, and Brock Nelson is 32. Also expect a sharp downward trajectory with them too.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Barzal is a very good player and so was Horvat this season. I will argue that the issue is not him, its that they didn't get the same quality of production out of their other lines once Roy came over. I feel as if the biggest difference between the Isles and both Carolina and the Rangers is that those two teams have a quality 2C, while Nelson is okay but no longer in that echelon of being really good.

also the PK sucks. You badly need to fix it because I attribute that to the islanders being awful at stretches and Sorokin becoming mortal this season.

I like Barzal a lot, just like I like Larkin a lot. But Barzal basically never became more than what he was as a rookie, a guy who is good showing flashes of greatness but not quite at the level where he's going to be the driver on a Cup contender. You can win a cup with guys like Barzal of course, but he would need to be supplemented by other guys around the same level, and that's much easier said than done.

Sorokin is a goalie, let's never talk about goalies as building blocks. It just doesn't happen. Goalies have played huge roles in big playoff runs, no doubt, but which goalie will do it when is basically anyone's guess. Goalie performance is way too volatile for a team to build around.

 

[saintunspecified]

I like Barzal a lot, just like I like Larkin a lot. But Barzal basically never became more than what he was as a rookie, a guy who is good showing flashes of greatness but not quite at the level where he's going to be the driver on a Cup contender. You can win a cup with guys like Barzal of course, but he would need to be supplemented by other guys around the same level, and that's much easier said than done.

Sorokin is a goalie, let's never talk about goalies as building blocks. It just doesn't happen. Goalies have played huge roles in big playoff runs, no doubt, but which goalie will do it when is basically anyone's guess. Goalie performance is way too volatile for a team to build around.

The chances you get that better than Barzal/Larkin, etc. player even at fist overall is roughly 40%. Obviously when one considers that together with the far less than 1 probability that NYI get first overall, and that drops down to pretty low percentage.

The OP was playing on how it would be awesome for NYI to get a home-grown LI Islanders fan who is a Team USA leader, and a high end talent. He's also a very good LI youth LAX player. So, yeah, would be sweet. Ain't gonna happen, and that's even if you tried.

As for the above sentence? He's become a legitimate defensive presence. But yeah, no matter how hard he tries (and he really does try), he hasn't been able to improve his finishing.

 

[Osakahaus]

I like Barzal a lot, just like I like Larkin a lot. But Barzal basically never became more than what he was as a rookie, a guy who is good showing flashes of greatness but not quite at the level where he's going to be the driver on a Cup contender. You can win a cup with guys like Barzal of course, but he would need to be supplemented by other guys around the same level, and that's much easier said than done.

I think Barzal genuinely did play great this season. Problem is that the two best forwards are him and Horvat, and the depth goes from okay to "why are you still in the NHL?"

so if they wanna get back to competiting? Fix the bottom 6 first.

 

[xECK29x]

Sure,. but also owners like money

 

[Gil Gunderson]

They have a #1 centre, #1 dman, and a #1 goalie, all very young. That's better than a lot of teams who are currently "contending". They definitely have a lot of awful contracts hurting them though,

 

[NVious]

Dobson is 24, Barzal is 26, Sorokin 28.

I think that is a good start and I'd run it back at least 2-4 more years.

I'm not sold on them either way, that core itself isn't crazy, but it's not bad either. The Isles should explore all options

 

[HockeyWooot]

All of Pulock, Nelson, Lee Im sure get something decent. Either a contender to get over the top or a young rebuilding team (eg Sabres, Sens)

Pageau, Palmieri can probably get some decent pieces too.

I think they can reload quickly if they’re smart. Probably need to inject some young speed and skill, and reducing the number of larger cont acts on the roster allocated to aging players.

 

[pabst blue ribbon]

The Isles giving themselves one off season to become the worst team in hockey would make us all witness to one of the craziest offseasons ever. I don't think OP understands that tanking would mean trading away all the core guys while working against a self imposed deadline, it's a wild proposition.

 

[NYRKing]

The retool is correct here. They have good players in their prime. Sorokin is too good.

They need some youth tho. Major problem with the lack of prospects.

 

[PhysicalGraffiti]

No. No they shouldn't.

 

[Osakahaus]

The retool is correct here. They have good players in their prime. Sorokin is too good.

They need some youth tho. Major problem with the lack of prospects.

Pretty much why they should be going after guys like Rossi or Kyrou or Ehlers this offseason also

 

[warrior60]

I think Barzal genuinely did play great this season. Problem is that the two best forwards are him and Horvat, and the depth goes from okay to "why are you still in the NHL?"

so if they wanna get back to competiting? Fix the bottom 6 first.

They’re not winning anything until they fix the defense.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

The biggest problem with the Islanders is that almost everyone with a secure spot on their roster is making market value (or more), which leaves very little cap space available to fill out the rest of the roster. And with Lou trading away every first round pick since 2019, there's not enough youngsters on ELCs who can even be a 4th liner, so they have to go outside the organization and sign whatever depth guys they can afford. This leads to a relatively weak bottom 6, since those guys are cheap and available for a reason.

On top of that, without 1st round picks, they also have to look outside the organization for their top 6 forwards too, which leads to Lou trading more 1st round picks and whatever halfway decent prospects are left in the pool. And the few guys that should probably be traded for futures have M-NTCs that let them veto trades to half the league, so it's not like they could replace Lou and easily replenish their prospect pool with a few trades. So, they're probably destined for a long, slow decline until they are a lottery team. Unfortunately, it'll probably take a few years before that happens, giving Lou that many more chances to trade away their future lottery picks.