Proposal: Isles - Canes

[greasysnapper]

You do realize that just like Vesey, Fox is going to be subject to the rules regarding ELCs, so he can't get any more money from one team as he can from another, right?

He's not getting 2.85mil mil in performance bonuses on a standard ELC like what Vesey got without waiting. Abramov for example who was taken 1 spot higher than Fox in 2016, got 182.5k in bonuses next year. Fox will get $$$.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Yep, but he's not getting 2.85mil mil in performance bonuses on a standard ELC like what Vesey got without waiting. Abramov for example who was taken 1 spot higher than Fox in 2016, got 182.5k in bonuses next year. Fox will get $$$.

Point being, he can't get any more from a team if he goes UFA than he can from a team today so money won't be the issue. If he wants to play in NY, then fine, that's a fair argument but it won't be about money.

 

[greasysnapper]

Point being, he can't get any more from a team if he goes UFA than he can from a team today so money won't be the issue. If he wants to play in NY, then fine, that's a fair argument but it won't be about money.

That's incorrect. It's simple supply and demand.

Right now, if he signs he has 1 team that can pay him. They have huge power over those terms. That's why you don't see 3rd rounders signing multi-million dollar, lobbed up easily attainable player bonuses with the team that drafted them. As soon as it's a free market, he's going to get paid.

Tell me one non-top of the draft player, drafted by a team that signed for anything remotely higher than a standard deviation from the usual ELC price tag?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

That's incorrect. It's simple supply and demand.

Right now, if he signs he has 1 team that can pay him. They have huge power over those terms. That's why you don't see 3rd rounders signing multi-million dollar, lobbed up easily attainable player bonuses with the team that drafted them. As soon as it's a free market, he's going to get paid.

Tell me one non-top of the draft player, drafted by a team that signed for anything remotely higher than a standard deviation from the usual ELC price tag?

You are missing the point. If Fox decides not to sign, it's because he wants to have full control over where he goes. What he signs with his initial ELC is peanuts compared to what he'll get his whole career and any team can offer him the same.

Nashville, Buffalo and other teams would have offered Vesey the same deal, he just didn't want to sign there. So saying "he just wants to get paid" doesn't hold water.

 

[Moosetache]

That's incorrect. It's simple supply and demand.

Right now, if he signs he has 1 team that can pay him. They have huge power over those terms. That's why you don't see 3rd rounders signing multi-million dollar, lobbed up easily attainable player bonuses with the team that drafted them. As soon as it's a free market, he's going to get paid.

Dude, you dont know what you are talking about. NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE...there is a max ELC contract for ALL first time NHL contracts.

Let it go.

 

[Strait2thecup]

Dal colle is just so bad

Don’t even get how this kid was good in juniors at this point

 

[Anton Babchuk]

There are no "easily attainable" multi-million dollar bonuses on ELCs. All the big bonuses are incredibly hard to reach.

 

[Lempo]

That's incorrect. It's simple supply and demand.

Right now, if he signs he has 1 team that can pay him. They have huge power over those terms. That's why you don't see 3rd rounders signing multi-million dollar, lobbed up easily attainable player bonuses with the team that drafted them. As soon as it's a free market, he's going to get paid.

Tell me one non-top of the draft player, drafted by a team that signed for anything remotely higher than a standard deviation from the usual ELC price tag?

The usual ELC price tag: max $925k Salary + max $850k Schedule A Performance Bonus + max $2M Schedule B Performance Bonus.

Your regular good guy gets the $925k salary. If he's kind of high profile he can get the $850 Schedule A bonus. If he's a top 4 D-man with some offensive acumen, he can also hit some or all of them.

The Schedule B's on the other hand are a special consideration reserved mainly for the top 5 Draft picks in standardized $2M - $1.8M - ~$1.65M -... decrease, and for the highly-sought-after Entry-Level UFAs.

The thing is, to actually hit his speculative $2M in Schedule B, Fox would need to be league Top 10 in Defenders in G, A, P, PpGP or ToI, or finish very high in nominations to trophies other than Calder or Lady Byng. That's very tall order. It's about five or so guys on ELC that do it in any given year. Fox isn't one of them. He's not going to get paid anytime soon. Jimmy Vesey has had hard time to reach his pesky Schedule A bonuses.

At the same time, those Performance Bonuses count against the Cap, which is the actual reason why they generally don't load ELC guys with $3.775 AAV.

 

[Halla]

i can hear the canes laughing from here. Dal Colle in his draft +4 just managed a measly 24 pts in the AHL
I'd be shocked if a team would even part with a decent 3rd to get him at this point. Fox has promise. maybe if he has 2-3 awful years it could be done

 

[Halla]

Dal Colle looked much improved playing in the isles prospect game last night for what it’s worth

dominating against 18 year olds and undrafted prospects eh?

 

[Lempo]

Dude, you dont know what you are talking about. NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE...there is a max ELC contract for ALL first time NHL contracts.

Let it go.

NA players signing their first SPC at 25+ and Euro players at 28+ are not subject to the Entry-level compensation limits.

 

[780il]

Carolina will rightfully decline.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Honestly, it's probably worth it for Carolina to get something. Fox is totally going to pull a Vesey and get as much money as he can. They'd have about as equal an opportunity to sign him after his senior year if they traded him as they would if they kept him. Might as well get a free asset.

Um...... college players who become UFAs after not signing after their senior year are still bound by the CBA as far as money goes.

So no, despite your lack of knowledge on the subject, they are trying to "get as much money" as they can... and even if they were... so what? Good for them.

 

[Moosetache]

NA players signing their first SPC at 25+ and Euro players at 28+ are not subject to the Entry-level compensation limits.

Thanks for letting me know that...even tho it has no bearing at all on the conversation at hand.

 

[Lempo]

Thanks for letting me know that...even tho it has no bearing at all on the conversation at hand.

Sorry, I forgot to put the pretentious "actually..." in front of it to denote that yes, it doesn't.

 

[greasysnapper]

Um...... college players who become UFAs after not signing after their senior year are still bound by the CBA as far as money goes.

So no, despite your lack of knowledge on the subject, they are trying to "get as much money" as they can... and even if they were... so what? Good for them.

Same knowledge rookie, you're just looking at it in terms of scope, I'm looking at it in terms of reality. You're saying they can get the same. I'm saying they won't. Just like you can date a model, but you won't. It's semantics. Players who holdout get more. There's nothing wrong with players trying to get money.

Look at Wiercioch vs. Schultz or Vesey vs. Pelech or any other drafted holdout vs. someone drafted in and around him.

Money is a driving factor, just like going to a system that works for the player.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Still won’t let it go

 

[Dr Quincy]

I'm saying they won't. Just like you can date a model, but you won't.

Well no, my wife would kill me.

You clearly are stuck on something that isn't true. The college players who go UFA are doing it because they want to find the best/quickest route to the NHL for themselves. Which in the long game is about $ in a way, but not in the way you are arguing.

 

[IODCPiper]

to NYI: Adam Fox, RHD

to CAR: Michael Dal Colle, LW

Isles get a kid with huge upside who apparently has a 0% chance of signing with Carolina. A guy who has openly expressed his interest to play in NY. He's a Long Island kid and trading for him now will give the Isles a head start over the Rangers on luring him over.

Carolina gets a former top-5 pick who has developed terribly to this point. I'm not going to pretend like he has great value - or even decent value - because he doesn't. He IS, however, a kid who is still incredibly young and has the pedigree, so it's possible that a team such as Carolina could view him as someone who could just use a change of scenery. Although the production has been really disappointing, the upside is still there.

As an isles fan that deal sucks fir canes. Add brock nelson and a 4th and maybe canes do it