Speculation: Is Trading Del Zotto a good idea?

[Trxjw]

Im not a big MDZ fan, but its just bizarre that guys like J. Moore, Falk, and Allen escape ridicule and MDZ is the one that received scorn from the coach. Not a way to handle the team's 5th best defenseman when theres no suitable replacements.

Perhaps it's the way that the others take adjustment/criticism from the coaches. For all we know, Del Zotto could be tuning out AV completely. Alternatively, AV could be the kind of guy who singles out players he really doesn't like.

This is definitely one of those situations were I'd like to be a fly on the wall.

 

[Trxjw]

For those who perhaps study this closer than I:

It seems (my perception) that DZ struggles greatly when he asked to play the right side, while he is semi competentnt defensively and seems to have much more confidence playing the left side.

Accurate statement? Over simplification?

If there is a shred of truth to that, then he probably will have more value elsewhere than he will here. Somebody will see him as a solid 2nd pair LHD and play him in that role without the constant left/right shuffling he has endured here.

No, there's absolutely truth to that. However, where DZ looked, at many points, very solid under Tortorella, he's had very few games of that caliber while AV has been the coach.

There's some friction there that extends well beyond MDZ's comfort level.

 

[eco's bones]

del zotto makes no difference for this team whatsoever. connor allen or even mcilrath can fill in some of his minutes.

del zotto is the least productive "key" player on the team.

34 2 7 9 -6 that kinda line for an offensive dman is a joke.

problem is, the organization has so diminished his value and his confidence, were stuck with him as he is. to move him now, means we basically gave him away.

a mentally damaged, slow footed, weak shooting, bonehead play making, "offensive dman" who cant hit the net.

the more he plays, the more he seems to suck. not a good situation at all.

I definitely think Del Zotto is a weak link on our D but mentally damaged seems to be taking it too far. He can be a good player but IMO he needs to put up offense to justify his average at best defense and the cap $'s he makes. He needs to produce even more offense than he has in the past to justify the cap $'s the Rangers will need just to qualify--let alone if he gets even more than that. I'm not seeing it happening now and I have doubts that he's ever going to the next level of production--say the 50 point mark in a season--for anybody. IMO he's shown little improvement from his rookie year.

For those who perhaps study this closer than I:

It seems (my perception) that DZ struggles greatly when he asked to play the right side, while he is semi competentnt defensively and seems to have much more confidence playing the left side.

Accurate statement? Over simplification?

If there is a shred of truth to that, then he probably will have more value elsewhere than he will here. Somebody will see him as a solid 2nd pair LHD and play him in that role without the constant left/right shuffling he has endured here.

Your perception is pretty close to mine. He's awful on the right side.

 

[Cliffy1814]

No, there's absolutely truth to that. However, where DZ looked, at many points, very solid under Tortorella, he's had very few games of that caliber while AV has been the coach.

There's some friction there that extends well beyond MDZ's comfort level.

Oh, I agree that it has now snowballed into something a little bit more than which side he is playing.
I am just wondering aloud if he is perhaps viewed by other orgs as someone who has been mishandled here to a degree.
The best hockey he played in his life was 60 games or so in 11-12 when he was the 2nd pair LHD with Staal / getting his game back after the concussion.

I am betting Sather gets value he wants here by holding out and we get a somewhat imperfect yet useful top 4 D man back in some sort of deal closer to the deadline.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

If MDZ is traded, will the result give us a firm indication if the Rangers plan to trade one of Callahan or Girardi?

Meaning, if the Rangers get back a roster defenseman or forward in return? Or just picks? If they trade MDZ, is Allen enough to fill the void so they can go after prospects/picks?

From what he's show i'd say possibly. So trading MDZ doesn't necessarily preclude a Girardi deal.

 

[offdacrossbar]

I definitely think Del Zotto is a weak link on our D but mentally damaged seems to be taking it too far. He can be a good player but IMO he needs to put up offense to justify his average at best defense and the cap $'s he makes. He needs to produce even more offense than he has in the past to justify the cap $'s the Rangers will need just to qualify--let alone if he gets even more than that. I'm not seeing it happening now and I have doubts that he's ever going to the next level of production--say the 50 point mark in a season--for anybody. IMO he's shown little improvement from his rookie year.



Your perception is pretty close to mine. He's awful on the right side.

oh but he is.

think back to his draft year, hes really kinda the same player he was coming out of oshawa and london but now hes actually gotten worse. he was a smooth skating, great passing, heady, offensive guy who could carry the puck and control the play and a ppg player as a dman. now hes none of that really.

hes bigger, stronger and smarter supposedly and has a ton of nhl experience including playoffs. hes played 20 minutes per night and in all situations. hes matured and has become a pro. hes an nhl vet now yet his play is still suspect. bottom line, his production has fallen off and hes regressed. his career has stalled along with his production.

are we to assume he just isnt that good of a player ? imo, nope. thats not it, hes got tools. he had tools coming out of junior and you dont lose them.

i say its his mental makeup and his fragile psyche. torts messed with him and av has taken it to a whole new level.

healthy scratches, minimal minutes, 3rd pair assignments, no pp time and constant media attention to his struggle has damaged this young man.

if there was ever a "change of scenery" guy, hes it. he could move to another organization, play the left side and blossom- in fact i would not be suprised if he were a penguin, or a duck, or a red wing or blackhawk if he didnt have a 60 point season.

hes been damaged bigtime by this organization. and now were stuck with him.

 

[Mikos87]

The truthful answer to the OP is that it depends.

Given the circumstances the Rangers find themselves in as far as their defense. Say DZ gets moved, and let's say this possibility plays out:

DZ Traded, D Man back but he sucks, or isn't a top 4 guy.
Stralman hits $4M on 4+ year deal elsewhere (he's an RHD, 26 and competant. UFA D-Men get paid)
G, Same thing as Stralman and he's gone.

Rangers end up with McD, Staal and company. No true top 4 guys on the roster next year. Does that equal playoffs or a collapse?

Or is it a 8-12 over pick cause the goalies steal enough games to make an impact?

 

[Doctyl]

Hf Logic:

Del Zotto is horrific but keep him over our most consistent defender over the past decade. He'll snap out of his 5 year funk one day...

I didn't realize 40 points was considered a funk. He hit 37 as a rookie, 41 2 years ago and 21 in a short season. He has received Norris votes. Thats not exactly what I call a 5 year funk. Aside from this year the only other time he really struggled was his sophomore year. If AV would put him on the left side consistently it would do wonders for him.

Now Girardi has been awful the past 2-3 years. He's been carried by Staal and McDonagh practically his whole career. I wouldn't call him consistent at all. Girardi is a wildly inconsistent player who tends to make a lot of brain farts with the puck on his stick.

 

[Doctyl]

What happens if you trade Girardi and DZ then Staal and Stralman walk? We are left with

McDonagh-Allen
Moore-McIlrath
Skjei-Falk/Bickel

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

What happens if you trade Girardi and DZ then Staal and Stralman walk? We are left with

McDonagh-Allen
Moore-McIlrath
Skjei-Falk/Bickel

Too bad there are no available defensemen anywhere else in the league.

 

[Doctyl]

Too bad there are no available defensemen anywhere else in the league.

I mean they would have to sign an overpriced aging UFA or get some defense back in a trade.

 

[noupf]

I mean they would have to sign an overpriced aging UFA or get some defense back in a trade.

Too bad there are no available defensemen anywhere else in the league.

so, i guess we have our answer than.......

 

[ltsthinaz]

One problem I have noted with MDZ is that he is slow as molasses. He was not so noticeably slow when he came up. Is this a conditioning problem? Motivation? Fixable? I don't know the answer to those questions, but I do know a slow defenseman with little size and strength isn't going to cut it in a league with a ton of speedy forwards. If we knew the answer to those questions, it would be a lot simpler to predict if MDZ will get back to his earlier form, and if we should trade him - at this point I don't think his value is that high.

If he's never going to get better than this, I would trade him if the return is decent, no matter what they decide to do with Girardi.

 

[Samuel Culper III]

What happens if you trade Girardi and DZ then Staal and Stralman walk? We are left with

McDonagh-Allen
Moore-McIlrath
Skjei-Falk/Bickel

Staal is signed for another year. So he can't walk. You probably get at least one NHL ready/almost ready young dman between the return from G and DZ. So slot Staal and that dman back into the lineup. Lots of cap space available from the trades/Richie buyout this summer. You can add a quality or stop gap dman easily.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I mean they would have to sign an overpriced aging UFA or get some defense back in a trade.

Why would they have to do that? Because thats the stupid move they always pull? Hey, how about we change that!?

 

[wolfgaze]

DZ doesn't really matter in terms of Girardi. He's not a defensively responsible defenseman. The two don't correlate. They can keep both and the defense can still look as bad as it has or they can trade both and the defense won't look much worse.

Wasn't insinuating they were comparable... But MDZ has proven to be capable of adequately playing 2nd pairing minutes in the past.... He does add to our defensive depth. If they trade both players we are left with McD, Staal (injury problems lately), Moore, and likely Stralman.... So is John Moore well-suited for a regular role on the 2nd pairing? What does our depth look like if Staal suffers another injury? Who do we round out the depth chart with? UFA signings likely to be more expensive and longer term contracts than we would prefer? The UFA market doesn't look very appealing. Plugging the holes/depth chart with prospects doesn't look very desirable either.

 

[aufheben]

What happens if you trade Girardi and DZ then Staal and Stralman walk? We are left with

McDonagh-Allen
Moore-McIlrath
Skjei-Falk/Bickel

Trade Girardi for Gardiner +, MDZ for F +, Staal is still signed, re-sign Stralman. They need to decide now though. Or they could keep MDZ.

McDoangh-Gardiner
Staal-Stralman
J.Moore-McIlrath/Allen/Falk

 

[Psuedo Omega]

oh but he is.

think back to his draft year, hes really kinda the same player he was coming out of oshawa and london but now hes actually gotten worse. he was a smooth skating, great passing, heady, offensive guy who could carry the puck and control the play and a ppg player as a dman. now hes none of that really.

hes bigger, stronger and smarter supposedly and has a ton of nhl experience including playoffs. hes played 20 minutes per night and in all situations. hes matured and has become a pro. hes an nhl vet now yet his play is still suspect. bottom line, his production has fallen off and hes regressed. his career has stalled along with his production.

are we to assume he just isnt that good of a player ? imo, nope. thats not it, hes got tools. he had tools coming out of junior and you dont lose them.

i say its his mental makeup and his fragile psyche. torts messed with him and av has taken it to a whole new level.

healthy scratches, minimal minutes, 3rd pair assignments, no pp time and constant media attention to his struggle has damaged this young man.

if there was ever a "change of scenery" guy, hes it. he could move to another organization, play the left side and blossom- in fact i would not be suprised if he were a penguin, or a duck, or a red wing or blackhawk if he didnt have a 60 point season.

hes been damaged bigtime by this organization. and now were stuck with him.

100% agree. I think if things really are bad/toxic in the locker room with Del Zotto you have to trade him ASAP. Even if you just get picks for him. However being on the outside of that it's simply impossible to tell how intense the situation is or if the situation is being blown out of proportion.

 

[Barnaby]

The problem with trading MDZ is that you're now getting pennies on the dollar, but you may have to go that route soon being as he doesn't seem to be getting any better. I was hoping they would move him last year when his value was up (bc, he's maddeningly inconsistent, and an OFD who doesn't contribute on the PP), but even as a detractor, I can't say that I saw this much regression coming. I really have no issue seeing Allen or Falk in the lineup at this point - the downgrade is pretty much negligible. For the time being, I guess you just ride MDZ, and hope he can pull it back together to increase value.

 

[JuniorNelson]

so, what gm in there right mind is going to offer us a BETTER defenseman for a WORSE defenseman?

So glad you asked! His name is Mike Gillis.

I am very suspicious that Gillis would overpay for an offensive defenseman. He has assets that might interest the Rangers. Coach Vigneault might recall a few names?