Is this what the Leafs desperately lack ?

[Pookie]

Imo most of Tampa’s “toughness” comes from the fact their core is a bit older and has more playoff experience. An advantage that shrinks with every passing season

Everyone who gets older gets experience.

It’s a matter of what you learn from it and do differently.

What have we done differently in the last playoff series with Boston?

 

[Pookie]

But we have? We did win a game against them this year, last year we won the season series. We went into the 3rd period of the 7th game with the lead, and a horrendously bad period cost us the game and the series.

People act like the Bruins rag dolled us all series last year. we had a horrible first 2 games, and horrible 3rd period of game 7. The Bruins weren't nailing us into the boards or beating us in the alley. Bergeron, Pasternak and Marchand killed us.

I don’t see anyone saying they ragdolled us.

They had the grit to fight through 7 games and come back in the 3rd period without quitting.

The game was on the line and they fought. We folded.

That’s what toughness is all about.

 

[Menzinger]

Everyone who gets older gets experience.

It’s a matter of what you learn from it and do differently.

What have we done differently in the last playoff series with Boston?

As far last year: with the bulk of the team’s core goes we’re talking about mostly sophomore NHLers during that series: guys still trying to figure out the NHL. It wasn’t a great series, but I don’t think it’s going to define their careers.

Do you legitimately believe that guys like Marner/Matthews/ Nylander/Rielly/ Andersen/Tavares are somehow qualitatively going to be playoff failures for their careers? I mean to each their own if you think “yes” but I wouldn’t bet on it.

 

[zeke]

Yeah that happened but a lot more than that happened too. It was game 6 and Clarke was retaliating from a previous hit. Kharmlakov wasn't their best player and he was using his stick as a weapon too BTW.
I don't really expect anything less than of a twisting of the truth though

Kharlamov was MVP of the Soviet league in both 72 and 73. He was player of the game in game 1 of the summit series. had 6pts in the first 5gms. USSR up 3-1-1. Clarke hacks him game six, Canada squeezes out 3 one goal games to win.

 

[OVO16]

Difference between Tampa and Toronto...is that all of Tampa's younger/star players all have a gritty/edgy side to them as well if need be. Something that we dont.

Kucherov, Erne, Gourde, Hedman, Stamkos, Cernak....can all play the gritty game. This to go along with their notable tough guys like Paquette, JT Miller, Killorn.

We need guys like Mathews, Marner, Nylander, Rielly, Gardiner to bring that side of them

 

[Raging Bull]

I don’t see anyone saying they ragdolled us.

They had the grit to fight through 7 games and come back in the 3rd period without quitting.

The game was on the line and they fought. We folded.

That’s what toughness is all about.

It wasn't toughness it was Gardiner having the worst game of his career and Andersen letting in some softies. Had nothing to do with toughness or grit. Mental fortitude maybe but it was more about our skilled players making mistakes and their skilled players capitalizing.

 

[Peiskos]

We don't lack anything, we just need to grow the F up and use our superior talent and team speed to beat the Bruins and move to the 2nd round already, once we get past that team we officially take a next step as a team and as a franchise. The Bruins can't hang with us when we play OUR game, we've even witnessed this in the playoffs.

Freddy needs to be a beast and if Tavares, Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Kappy and AJ represent 6 cylinders we need at least 3 of them to be firing for our depth to overwhelm them..that's the key to beating what is essentially a 1 line hockey team.

We all know we're getting the Bruins again, this is the year. Simply put and if it doesn't happen that's when the question of coaching change can begin to be brought forward.

 

[Pookie]

As far last year: with the bulk of the team’s core goes we’re talking about mostly sophomore NHLers during that series: guys still trying to figure out the NHL. It wasn’t a great series, but I don’t think it’s going to define their careers.

Do you legitimately believe that guys like Marner/Matthews/ Nylander/Rielly/ Andersen/Tavares are somehow qualitatively going to be playoff failures for their careers? I mean to each their own if you think “yes” but I wouldn’t bet on it.

I wouldn’t bet on it either.

But a whole career is a long time.

This moment is about facing Boston in a few weeks. What we have learned from past series and what will we do differently?

We may beat Boston but we are definitely the underdogs going in.

Boston sees us like we saw the Sens.

 

[Pookie]

It wasn't toughness it was Gardiner having the worst game of his career and Andersen letting in some softies. Had nothing to do with toughness or grit. Mental fortitude maybe but it was more about our skilled players making mistakes and their skilled players capitalizing.

And that is what toughness is about.

Hitting the drive the middle of the fairway in a Major on Sunday with a one shot lead on the final hole.

Making the 3 pointer at the buzzer.

A walk off homer in the 9th.

Some perform. Some don’t. Not every shot goes in but winners tend to believe they can make it all the time.

That comes from a place of confidence. And confidence in hockey comes from all the things I talked about. Knowing the guy beside you will block a shot or stick up for you.

It’s not an individual game. It’s a team game and team mentality matters.

 

[Peiskos]

I wouldn’t bet on it either.

But a whole career is a long time.

This moment is about facing Boston in a few weeks. What we have learned from past series and what will we do differently?

We may beat Boston but we are definitely the underdogs going in.

Boston sees us like we saw the Sens.

Yeah... it never worked out well for the Senators during those years, 4 playoff meetings, 4 playoff series losses to the Leafs. I personally don't consider our 2013 matchup with the Bruins to be apart of this current era, as that was the Phaneuf/Kessel/Reimer era.

We've met the Bruins once in the Matthews/Marner/Nylander era so far (2018) our 2nd meeting will be 2019 and with the addition of Tavares..we can only hope that makes the difference this time around.

 

[frog]

how did I know this would be about physicality? anyway, no

What do you mean no? You dont think the leafs could use a guy like Chara

 

[Notsince67]

Kharlamov was MVP of the Soviet league in both 72 and 73. He was player of the game in game 1 of the summit series. had 6pts in the first 5gms. USSR up 3-1-1. Clarke hacks him game six, Canada squeezes out 3 one goal games to win.

Yakushev was their best player.
This is the problem here. I make a comment on where the toughness is rooted from yet you through all kinds of crap that doesn't stick to defend a statement that there is no correlation to toughness. Toughness has worked in the past. It might not be efficient but the biggest mistake is correlation vs causation. Most great players don't need to be tough.
Give me tough elite players over soft elite players all day long.
Matthews is a non-tough player with a great shot. Ovi is a tough player with a great shot. Give me ovi in his prime over matthews any day

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

What do you mean no? You dont think the leafs could use a guy like Chara

Could use him? Sure. Desperately lacking? I'd say no

 

[frog]

Could use him? Sure. Desperately lacking? I'd say no

If leafs somehow had gotten Chara and Reilly on the 1st paring I say they are guaranteed the stanley cup

Chara-Reilly-Muzzin-Dermott-Gardner-Zaitsev

 

[Trapper]

Yet this thread is about adding the toughness of a Chara to our lineup to fix our "toughness"deficit. But thanks for the alternate definition of toughness.

Well people talk about Tampa and Chicago not having toughness to win.
Sure you’d like a Chara, but the other teams didn’t have one and didn’t lack toughness in the terms being discussed.
Watch the playoffs on the internet with Pittsburgh,Chicago in the finals. Toughness was aggressive forecheck, puck pursuit and taking contact to make plays.
We could add a McQuaid and still be passive if the team doesn’t play that way.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

I’m not sure why people keep missing the gist of the post which is: Boston know exactly how to utilize their strengths and Toronto does not. Therefore until Toronto figures out how to play properly we can’t truly assume that simply adding a tough guy is the answer.

Does anybody here think the team is playing to it’s potential? Do you think adding a tough guy is the answer to the issues I mentioned in the original post (kapanen tunnel vision, Nylander button hook with no passing lanes open, etc)?

The op is wondering if a colossal violent presence like Chara is what the Leafs desperately lack. I don’t think so. Our lack of complete system would likely expose a guy like Chara.

So fire Babcock then? I'm in.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

The Naysayers include Chicago and their three Cups. They were the second least physical team in the league. Some of the best teams in the league are not physical, including the one trying to shatter records. There is zero measurable correlation between physicality and wins.

Any claim that you can't win without it is pure ignorance, and a severely short memory.

The narrative just doesn't change with those of you who want the Nation Figure Skating League does it?

Go ahead, show me stats about regular season "hits" and fights again.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

This debate will go in circles as the fans of non contact hockey think physicality means big hits and fights.

It doesn’t.

It’s the will to compete. It’s the confidence and trust that is developed by playing with guys you know will have your back or throw themselves in front of a puck. Their commitment affects yours.

And no you can’t measure it on a spreadsheet.

It’s the injury riddle Leafs beating Aflie and the Sens with Alyn McCauley as the#1C.

And if EVERYONE is honest, we all know we don’t have it.

We ALL hope it doesn’t matter but in recent playoff memory it has.

They won't change their narrative. I just make fun of them now. They'll never learn.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

It's still an interesting argument to me. Why is physicality in the playoffs considered a bad thing? The refs don't call ****. If anything you're dumb for not being physical.

Because physicality is violence. Violence is aggressive. Aggression triggers snowflakes.

 

[jrgtml67]

The 42 year old captain of the Bruins steps up against one of the toughest guys in the league who is 15 years younger than him . How important is this to the team ? Or is it a factor at all ? Forget about the fact that Chara stepped up in a fighting situation - the question is do the Leafs lack the compete level necessary to go all the way ?

Mom we don't need to fight. We do need to stand up a bit more. Though lately the hits that have been big have been clean. We need a Ryan Reaves, can play, some offense, decent D and then will step in on the other team.

 

[Trapper]

Difference between Tampa and Toronto...is that all of Tampa's younger/star players all have a gritty/edgy side to them as well if need be. Something that we dont.

Kucherov, Erne, Gourde, Hedman, Stamkos, Cernak....can all play the gritty game. This to go along with their notable tough guys like Paquette, JT Miller, Killorn.

We need guys like Mathews, Marner, Nylander, Rielly, Gardiner to bring that side of them

That’s the real issue.
You can add a scorer and score more but you can’t add a tough guy and be tougher.

You have to play with that blue collar aggressive nature. If you stop playing when the other team comes at you, it’s game over.
It has to start at the top and carry through the lineup. You can’t just have Hyman/Marner playing hard.

 

[Nineteen67]

A different mold of team wins the cup every year. Honestly, there's no "correct" way to build one.

We're a great team and our core is incredibly young. Just keep playing to our strengths and we have a decent shot at the cup over the next number of years.

Chara is amazing though, definitely a hall of famer.

I don’t know if there really is a different mould . Most Cup winners had elite scroring, great special teams, great goaltending, at least one stud Defenceman, a group of tenacious checkers , a group dedicated to each other, and a guy that drives people crazy. Oh and a sprinkle of good fortune.

That doesn’t sound like this Leafs team.

 

[Nineteen67]

But we have? We did win a game against them this year, last year we won the season series. We went into the 3rd period of the 7th game with the lead, and a horrendously bad period cost us the game and the series.

People act like the Bruins rag dolled us all series last year. we had a horrible first 2 games, and horrible 3rd period of game 7. The Bruins weren't nailing us into the boards or beating us in the alley. Bergeron, Pasternak and Marchand killed us.

Two mediocre teams.....

 

[drewjenks]

The 42 year old captain of the Bruins steps up against one of the toughest guys in the league who is 15 years younger than him . How important is this to the team ? Or is it a factor at all ? Forget about the fact that Chara stepped up in a fighting situation - the question is do the Leafs lack the compete level necessary to go all the way ?

YES .... the leafs need more 42 year olds!

 

[Nithoniniel]

Difference between Tampa and Toronto...is that all of Tampa's younger/star players all have a gritty/edgy side to them as well if need be. Something that we dont.

Kucherov, Erne, Gourde, Hedman, Stamkos, Cernak....can all play the gritty game. This to go along with their notable tough guys like Paquette, JT Miller, Killorn.

We need guys like Mathews, Marner, Nylander, Rielly, Gardiner to bring that side of them

Miller is not exactly a tough guy.