Is this the biggest blow yet? (General Reflection/Ramble)

[Cor]

(Just a bit of a discussion I suppose. Nothing specific, but just venting. It's a tad long, so near the end I bolded some parts I thought stood out to myself)

I don't know, there is something about this season.. that just feels worse than the others.

None of them care. At all.

I sorta think it's because all the weight of the past decade, all the failures, it's all added up, and now, the realization that we need to take it all down and restart, with just 1 playoff series to show for it, which came in a shortened season, and remembered for one of the biggest collapses in Game 7 history.

Speaking of Game 7, this team just hasn't looked the same. Kinda makes you wonder what we would be like had we won that series, and possibly made it to the third round. This whole team just hasn't looked the same since that point. The moves made afterwards, or some of them at least were head scratchers.

I don't think anyone took issue with the Maple Leafs buying out Grabovski. He was our third line center, and making just under 6 million a year.

However the use of that money, signing David Clarkson to a massive 7 year deal, taking up all but .25M of Grabovski's cap hit, was kinda mind blowing. Personally, I didn't mind David Clarkson, thought we were getting a good player, wasn't a fan of the price tag, but I was a fan of the player Clarkson had been the prior two seasons.

However, when his former team, essentially publicly laughed at him for his demands, and Patrick Elias (known generally as a quiet, passive guy) comes out and says he is in disbelief over the contract Clarkson got, you know there were issues.

The two other teams who wanted Clarkson, the Edmonton Oilers, and Ottawa Senators, kinda makes you chuckle doesn't it? Dave Nonis got pulled into that circle. And what happened? Nonis offered less money, but a MUCH better contract. He must have told Clarkson's agent "this is the cap hit we won't go over, structure the contract anyway you want too".

To take a phrase from Randy Carlyle, who really, must be sitting back, enjoying this. It's almost become apparent that he played the team the only way this team can have success. Ignoring defense, and just going full out offensively.

Mind-boggling.

The team is currently playing a brand of hockey that can be successful... with good teams. The changes that Horachek made, has opened everyone's eyes to just how bad this team has been, and just how far away they are from competing. Well, everyone but Dave Nonis, who Dreger reported just a few days ago that Dave Nonis wasn't quite ready to sell off, as he thought there was still a chance at making the playoffs.

How ridiculous is that? James Mirtle, please.




We could go nearly perfect, just 8 regulation losses, and WE WOULD STILL NOT BE ON PACE TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS.

Percentage Wise? 1.8% of making the playoffs.

Think McDavid is a long shot? Well, the chances of the Leafs getting McDavid is x3.61 better than the Leafs making the playoffs....AND GROWING

What I find amusing? Joffery Lupul, believes their team game looks better. 8 straight losses, and since the New Year have been the 2nd worst NHL team.... (Yes! Even WORSE THAN THE OILERS) but hey at least the team game is better!

What did Phil Kessel have to say? Another reminder, this is the Leafs 16TH LOSS IN THE LAST 19 GAMES ---- "Not good enough.... again"

Not good enough?

NOT GOOD ENOUGH!?

We passed not good enough A LONG TIME AGO. We are pathetic, embarrassing. We are making the Edmonton Oilers look like a respectable franchise.

And those two comments are coming from two players who are supposed to be apart of our core. Two players who are supposed to be leading young players like Nazem Kadri, Morgan Rielly.

Hey, remember earlier in the season when Jonathan Bernier ripped into this team a few times? Now.... not even Bernier cares it seems.

.......

......16 losses in our past 19 games.

Bloody Hell.

Click to read more...

 

[gamer1035]

this reminds me of the jynx thread.

 

[IAmBobo]

The team was perfectly fine...

until they brought in Bernier

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

For me, this blow is bigger because its just been a waste of time these past 7 years, when we started re-building (that turned into constant re-tooling) in 2008. Had we done everything right back then, we could be reaping the benefits of smart drafting and development right about now. Instead, our team is still crap with Muskoka Five esque contracts, and a prospect pool that's only marginally better to what we had back then. Watching us spinning our wheels and now having to start over again stinks, just a complete waste of time trying to claw our way into the playoffs.

It's disheartening, and this is only the second time I'm seeing a need to reset as a die hard. Can't imagine what it's been like for guys who've been waiting since 67 for this sad sack franchise to get it right.

 

[saffronleaf]

No one has any trust in this team. Even when they were on their winning streak, very few jumped on the bandwagon this time around. We've seen this stupid act before. The team is garbage. The players suck. The coach sucks. Management is crap. Coaching is horrible.

To top it all off, we have to watch most games courtesy of Rogers... which is also putrid.

**** everything about the Leafs right now.

 

[Community]

Yeah it's frustrating as hell, but I dont see why Kessel saying "not good enough... again" is bad? It's true and Kessel always puts a lot of blame on himself so he's one of the few players I don't get as passed off at. His post game answers are almost always spot on and how he feels, not rehearsed crap like most other players.

I can't cheer against this team even though I know they're severely faulted and losing now will help them long term. Hoping though that players that aren't important for future success and are also not trade bait (Smith, Holder, Clarkson mainly) make costly errors while the future core players (Rielly, Kadri, Gardz, Bernier, Kessel, JVR) improve for the rest of the season.

 

[Ace88*]

if you knew anything at all about david clarkson you wouldn't have been a "fan" of his the two seasons prior

sure he had a 30 goal season, but half of them bounced in off his ass. at least Kulemin actually scored his 30 himself. he was always a poor top 6 player, average 3rd liner who happened to be in the right place at the right time 30 times in one season. that contract was ****ing madness the moment it happened and i tried to tell you all, but oh no everyone just told me "o ya just wait til he plays a game at least, he's a good player n we need what he brings"

devils fans didn't want to sign him for more than $3-3.5m and all the sheep here were on board with a shiny new physical "goal scorer." Now you know why

and what the hell do you expect Kessel to say? A stirring, eloquent soliloquy filled with melancholy self reflection, at the end of which he wraps a noose around his neck in a symbolic gesture of white-flagging? Jesus christ man, put yourself in his shoes. He's not an articulate public speaker and the same ****ing morons keep asking him the same ****ing questions and hounding and hounding him about the same ****ing things. Im surprised he hasn't blown up on any of them yet. He's more frustrated than anybody and it's pretty visible.

 

[Leafs at Knight]

The team was perfectly fine...

until they brought in Bernier

ok..

 

[Daisy Jane]

this was on the radio and I was like - it's very, true.

Everyone is screaming "Blow it up." but we need to realise -it's blown up. This team. is horrendously, bad. You can't even say they're buffalo bad. they're. WORSE if you take out the two hot streaks [because we'll acknowledge we have more elite talent (1) more fire power (6), than Buffalo] we're statistically worse than them. We're Buffalo five years ago - with horrendous contracts and good/decent (1 elite) talent.

I was beating the "I just want the team to show me what they're going to do early, so changes could be done." (i truthfully didn't think it was going to be this horrendous slide). At worst I thought they'd Phoenix/Columbus this season (JUST miss), or (hope) get into the wild card spot and win a series.

I honestly think (i'm with Cor here). That game seven broke this team. (i mean, yes, statistically, we were sliding, Boston took the peddle of the gas, whatever. this is why the 1st round is the best round for the most part, give or take another series. ANYTHING happens. Columbus almost did the exact same thing to Pittsburgh). but if you look at their faces during that final 10 minutes, and their reactions after Boston scored the OT winner, all their get up and go - got up and left.

And - i don't think there's anyone on the team that's strong/good/determined(?) enough to go "Let's squash this poop right now."

We can all have our beliefs of how it went wrong, where it went wrong, why it went wrong, how to fix it and what needs to be done. not only are we finding new ways to lose, we're breaking records from the 1920's. (that are bad). This team is playing as if the season ended tomorrow - and there are 31 more games left.

Nonis... he's gone. He publicly went on record (again) and said. that He believed in this core, and that they could get the job done. We're like what? 4 points from being 6th by Sunday? he said that his (their) goals were to make the playoffs. (that - is not happening. everyone needs to accept that).

This is the nail that sunk this coffin, and the Leafs are finally. (hopefully) going to rebuild and develop. (I've seen some people who don't want to get some players back (ie: a Toffoli or a Pearson) dunno. I can see why - but that could just put us back where we're at..

I am just hoping this is our 1985. Honestly. (people are going to be sick of me saying this, but I really think this could happen). if we're close enough to 4th/5th, that it's possible that we could win the lottery - I honestly believe that we may win the Lottery. (and it can happen. hasn't a team like not bottom 4 won the lottery, which gave them a better spot? now that whoever wins the lottery, wins the 1st overall... (shrug).

You have a very broken franchise (who the league,needs to be viable, and profitable ASAP. as does the NHLPA). with an emotionally bankrupt fanbase -who out of the other 29 franchises - will buy anything but the team that is on the ice right now and an 18 year old, Toronto(area) Born Kid, who grew up a Leafs fan who is projected to be better than Sidney Crosby - who (if not for injuries) could have been better than Gretzky.

that would work so much better here, than it would any. where. else.
and everyone else still gets the players they need to be insta better:

Buffalo (2nd) gets Eichel.
Edmonton (3rd) gets Hanifin (which they need. Hanifin + Nurse?)
Arizona gets Strome which totally helps them out.

if McDavid is on the Leafs - whatever fears about the Leafs rebuilding are moot. People are going to tune in to see this kid play. Shanahan (according to LeBrun) wants to create the Detroit development model here so there's that

Pittsburgh was dying without Crosby (and everyone knew it, and the balls just happened to fall their way)

the Leafs are dying, and where goes the Leafs goes the financial growth for the League and the NHLPA and other revenues. (and everyone knows it).

 

[Dirty Dan]

We weren't even a bad team in 2012, we had a high power offence and just needed a few pieces on D and Bernier to insulate it. Instead we lose our depth scoring and heart players and sign clarkson instead. Just brutal

Now the analytics guys turned are trying to make this team a copy of everyone else, at least the offensive team was something different in the league

We lost kulemin,mcarthur,grabo but atleast we have nylander as a saving grace

 

[Tak7]

Given the way their seasons have ended the last 3 years, there was definitely more critical eyes at cast at this team than in the past.

I also think that given this is the 3rd time in 4 years that the team has had an 18-wheeler means that the core as we know it is probably not going to be kept intact much longer.

So in short, yeah, I think this season definitely has the feeling of a breaking point because it likely is.

What this team has done the past month, and what they could potentially do the next 3 months of the season both on and off the ice, could represent the most crucial & defining few months that this organization has had in several decades.

 

[Tak7]

this was on the radio and I was like - it's very, true.

Everyone is screaming "Blow it up." but we need to realise -it's blown up. This team. is horrendously, bad. You can't even say they're buffalo bad. they're. WORSE if you take out the two hot streaks [because we'll acknowledge we have more elite talent (1) more fire power (6), than Buffalo] we're statistically worse than them. We're Buffalo five years ago - with horrendous contracts and good/decent (1 elite) talent.

I was beating the "I just want the team to show me what they're going to do early, so changes could be done." (i truthfully didn't think it was going to be this horrendous slide). At worst I thought they'd Phoenix/Columbus this season (JUST miss), or (hope) get .

Good post overall, lots of good stuff (typically the case with many of your posts - they do definitely stick out).

However - 5 years ago the Sabres won the Northeast division and were a relatively consistent playoff team. I also don't think this thing is "blown up" at all. The Sabres have most of their big cap hits domed for a few more seasons, and have no one signed beyond the 2018 season. That means they've got youth coming in as as well as cap space.

The leafs aren't at that point, and until they get to that point there is still more "blowing up" to do.

Despite being an awful team the past 4 years, there are still quite a few pieces on this team that have value league-wide that can be moved. So long as you have that, you've got moves to make and stripping down to do.

Final point - Boston game 7 didn't *break* this franchise. What broke this franchise is the franchise misinterpreting where this team was at after the Boston series. They saw the Leafs get to within 10 minutes of the season round, and thought this was much closer than it truly was.

That post-season after Boston is one that Nonis would love to re-do a million times over. He made moves that contending teams make, not mediocre teams. He also made bizarre decisions on assets both coming and leaving Toronto. It's a mess.

 

[hockeystick89]

this was on the radio and I was like - it's very, true.

Everyone is screaming "Blow it up." but we need to realise -it's blown up. This team. is horrendously, bad. You can't even say they're buffalo bad. they're. WORSE if you take out the two hot streaks [because we'll acknowledge we have more elite talent (1) more fire power (6), than Buffalo] we're statistically worse than them. We're Buffalo five years ago - with horrendous contracts and good/decent (1 elite) talent.

I was beating the "I just want the team to show me what they're going to do early, so changes could be done." (i truthfully didn't think it was going to be this horrendous slide). At worst I thought they'd Phoenix/Columbus this season (JUST miss), or (hope) get into the wild card spot and win a series.

I honestly think (i'm with Cor here). That game seven broke this team. (i mean, yes, statistically, we were sliding, Boston took the peddle of the gas, whatever. this is why the 1st round is the best round for the most part, give or take another series. ANYTHING happens. Columbus almost did the exact same thing to Pittsburgh). but if you look at their faces during that final 10 minutes, and their reactions after Boston scored the OT winner, all their get up and go - got up and left.

And - i don't think there's anyone on the team that's strong/good/determined(?) enough to go "Let's squash this poop right now."

We can all have our beliefs of how it went wrong, where it went wrong, why it went wrong, how to fix it and what needs to be done. not only are we finding new ways to lose, we're breaking records from the 1920's. (that are bad). This team is playing as if the season ended tomorrow - and there are 31 more games left.

Nonis... he's gone. He publicly went on record (again) and said. that He believed in this core, and that they could get the job done. We're like what? 4 points from being 6th by Sunday? he said that his (their) goals were to make the playoffs. (that - is not happening. everyone needs to accept that).

This is the nail that sunk this coffin, and the Leafs are finally. (hopefully) going to rebuild and develop. (I've seen some people who don't want to get some players back (ie: a Toffoli or a Pearson) dunno. I can see why - but that could just put us back where we're at..

I am just hoping this is our 1985. Honestly. (people are going to be sick of me saying this, but I really think this could happen). if we're close enough to 4th/5th, that it's possible that we could win the lottery - I honestly believe that we may win the Lottery. (and it can happen. hasn't a team like not bottom 4 won the lottery, which gave them a better spot? now that whoever wins the lottery, wins the 1st overall... (shrug).

You have a very broken franchise (who the league,needs to be viable, and profitable ASAP. as does the NHLPA). with an emotionally bankrupt fanbase -who out of the other 29 franchises - will buy anything but the team that is on the ice right now and an 18 year old, Toronto(area) Born Kid, who grew up a Leafs fan who is projected to be better than Sidney Crosby - who (if not for injuries) could have been better than Gretzky.

that would work so much better here, than it would any. where. else.
and everyone else still gets the players they need to be insta better:

Buffalo (2nd) gets Eichel.
Edmonton (3rd) gets Hanifin (which they need. Hanifin + Nurse?)
Arizona gets Strome which totally helps them out.

if McDavid is on the Leafs - whatever fears about the Leafs rebuilding are moot. People are going to tune in to see this kid play. Shanahan (according to LeBrun) wants to create the Detroit development model here so there's that

Pittsburgh was dying without Crosby (and everyone knew it, and the balls just happened to fall their way)

the Leafs are dying, and where goes the Leafs goes the financial growth for the League and the NHLPA and other revenues. (and everyone knows it).

Completely agree. I will say though, even though this group is broken, they still have the potential to string together some wins and this worries me. I think we have to make sure this doesn't happen by trading away guys who we weren't going to re-sign as well as the long-term contract guys who have fallen out of favor.

Granted, I do believe that at this point Clarkson is not going to be impossible to move.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Good post overall, lots of good stuff (typically the case with many of your posts - they do definitely stick out).

However - 5 years ago the Sabres won the Northeast division and were a relatively consistent playoff team. I also don't think this thing is "blown up" at all. The Sabres have most of their big cap hits domed for a few more seasons, and have no one signed beyond the 2018 season. That means they've got youth coming in as as well as cap space.

The leafs aren't at that point, and until they get to that point there is still more "blowing up" to do.

Despite being an awful team the past 4 years, there are still quite a few pieces on this team that have value league-wide that can be moved. So long as you have that, you've got moves to make and stripping down to do.

Final point - Boston game 7 didn't *break* this franchise. What broke this franchise is the franchise misinterpreting where this team was at after the Boston series. They saw the Leafs get to within 10 minutes of the season round, and thought this was much closer than it truly was.

That post-season after Boston is one that Nonis would love to re-do a million times over. He made moves that contending teams make, not mediocre teams. He also made bizarre decisions on assets both coming and leaving Toronto. It's a mess.

thank you -that was a very nice compliment

what I mean is -contract wise. we've got bloated messes all throughout and we're trending downward (I can't claim the Buffalo thing. this was on Leafs Lunch by a Sabres fan. but my fault for not researching more on tha tone).

Game seven: the team up until 10 minutes to go - very rarely that season blew leads (in fact they were one of the few teams that hadn't. they were perfect in the third period, when leading after two). they always held this confidence that they would win and come back. I remember an interview with Lupul and we were down 3-1, he spoke with this belief that it didn't matter a flip they were down - because they knew they were going to win. Siegal said, to a man -they all felt that way]

[yes. i get all the statistic stuff - but that belief and swagger was there. and then it happened]. I can honestly believe - that I never saw that swagger again. Dion said during the losing streak (the final one)- that he believed in the team and that they would do everything they could to make the playoffs - and I remember saying. "I don't believe you. I don't think you can.

Burke will forever be linked to Kessel, 2 firsts and a2nd. and the thing that people scream at Burke about is not so much about Kessel - but how he looked at this team and thought that trading 3 picks made sense.

Nonis and Lieweke (no matter how much NinjaDust Lieweke throws up), will be known as the management core who got seduced by the playoffs - and thought the team was better than they were. Lieweke said it himself. he saw the team and thought they were fixed. he thought the Leafs branch was done. Boom. Lieweke extends, Nonis, Nonis (and Carlyle) think they need to outgrit their oppenents, Bolland, Clarkson and here we are.

I think whomever this GM (co-managed via Shanahan) is going to speak volumes. this is - hands down. the biggest offseason of the Leafs in I don't know how long.

we're going to get a new coach (who?)
we're going to get a new gm (we better)
we're going to have a direction - set (depending on who gets hired)
a good chunk of this core is GOING to be removed. [but what comes back]

i don't think i've been more eager - and apprehensive - for April (and June) to come for this franchise in my 15 years of being a leafs fan .

 

[Tak7]

Yep^

Wish I could close my eyes and wake up at the draft

 

[WilliamNylander]

This season might be a blessing in disguise if we can land one of Strome/Marner/Hannifin and (more importantly) convince management to finally rebuild this thing

 

[eddieO]

Great posts. I'm shocked some of you are still up. I agree with a lot of what's been said.

I'm still baffled why Nonis is still here? Aren't we setting upon making the most important changes to this team in recent history? Even if he's neutered behind the scenes, what kind of entitlement allows him to be the GM? He's the reason why we're here! Bad trades, bad signings. He's been awful. I want a GM even if it's interim, to architect a sell. In fact and interim GM wouldn't really care about saving his butt and having the Leafs win next year to save his job. He'd make choices that are relative to the team's longterm success. Maybe that is Hunter, I don't care.

Every day Nonis isn't fired is another embarrassing day for this franchise.

 

[eddieO]

Another point: this feels like the Ballard days. The darkest era in my lifetime. But having the fanbase go through that made the 92-93 run with Pat Burns and Gilmour so special. Cliff Fletcher turned us around so quickly. It was amazing.

 

[Torontonian]

Like someone posted here before, this might be the biggest off season for the leafs, If we decide to sell which I hope for we need to get some good returns, Hopefully someone overpays vastly for kessel if we trade him, truthfully Id prefer not too, he is what he is.. Just need a better supporting cast around him.. (Like patty kane and chiagio) Rather see dion gone first, We need two way players that can actually play in their own end aswell in the offensive end, as for clarkson hes just been a total bust.. I didn't like the signing all that much but I never would have thought he was going to be this bad for us..

 

[janesy12]

Why is everyone so down on this team?
I thought we were doing everything right the last month? Seriously, we've been doing a better job.
NOTHING is impossible, we just have to Be-Leaf. No matter what happens, until game 82 nothing is out of reach.
The players just need to keep doing what they're doing and we'll be fine.
We'll make it and get where we need to get.
Then it'll all be worth it when they pick McDavid June 26th, all of this WILL be worth it.


Edit - Ohhh...some people are mad we aren't winning. Sorry, I get it now.
Carlyle actually looks like a genius for getting this team to win at all.
The only way to coach this team was to go all out offense and outscore the problems.
He coached that system well, he knew what he was doing.
This team, and core cannot be fixed. It's done. When every single fan realizes this group is done and will never win, then perhaps management and ownership finally need to roll up their sleeves and clean house.

There's a reason why teams like LA, Chicago, Anaheim, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Tampa Bay are all good teams now.

They sucked (like we do now) for years and reaped the benefits of an ACTUAL rebuild. Just like Buffalo will do this year. In 5 years, they'll be a great team and we'll be stuck in the same revolving door of not good enough, not bad enough.

 

[SprDaVE]

The team was perfectly fine...

until they brought in Bernier

People are still blaming the goaltending?

This is absurd.

 

[AustonMitchWilly]

Rig the Lotto!

 

[Trapper]

The biggest shock to me would be keeping this core together 1 more day past game 82.
As for this team not getting done, it's no shock however, even though I never expected this team to make the playoffs it appears they have actually gotten worse. The age of our core Bozak,Kessel,Phaneuf,Lupul,Clarkson will not get any younger or any better.

 

[Erdinger]

Given the way their seasons have ended the last 3 years, there was definitely more critical eyes at cast at this team than in the past.

I also think that given this is the 3rd time in 4 years that the team has had an 18-wheeler means that the core as we know it is probably not going to be kept intact much longer.

So in short, yeah, I think this season definitely has the feeling of a breaking point because it likely is.

What this team has done the past month, and what they could potentially do the next 3 months of the season both on and off the ice, could represent the most crucial & defining few months that this organization has had in several decades.

Should have started last summer slowly dismantling it. Starting with Carlyle and Nonis but this idiotic organization always wants to keep a lame duck fall guy to fire when things inevitably go South.

 

[Salgari]

Yes. At least for me, this season has kinda killed my leaf spirit. Everything in the past off season, Randy extended but neutered , Nonis still here, cosmetic changes to the lineup, everything gave a "wasted season " vibe.

What was the point of all that? No direction at all in a crucial season and draft.

We may miraculously still end up with McDavid, but this season hurt.

And lastly, somebody from ownership needs to go to bettman and tell him: we've taken it in the *** for the past ten years, we are the Toronto Maple Leafs and you are nothing without our support. You gave Crosby to Pittsburgh. You are giving us McDavid, or else.