Is there really a correct skating style?

[CornKicker]

Borrows the thread if it's OK.

I have to short strides and skates with my legs to straightened. I need to take longer strides and bend my knees more. At the moment I can't skate the way I would like to, due to my miserable groin- and hip mobility. The backs of my thighs need to increase mobility also. I'm stiff as a stick!

Can anyone hand me som tips for skating drills or off ice drills to increase my mobility? I hate to stretch my muscles but Ive come to the point where I really have to.

loosen teh top of your skates a bit, i find with weaker skaters tehy tie their skates so tight that they cant have any forward bend of their ankles. you cant bend your knees if you cant bend your ankles. If you are playing hockey shorten your stick to force you to bend your knees.

as for exercises, if you are stiff as you say try yoga? or even a progressive stretching program you can do at home. proper stretching, and i dont mean just to warm up type stretching but various leg and body stretches to help alleive some stiffness in the legs. do it for 15-20 mins everyday. you can do it while watching tv. i even do leg stretches while im working at my desk.

squats with light weight allowing you to do 12-16 reps at a high intensity are good. do them every 3-4 days. remember you arent trying to build muscle but strengthen what you already have.

 

[CornKicker]

enjoy.
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/w...fting/warm-up-your-hips-agile-8-a-631289.html

this is an excellent resource,

 

[bp spec]

Thanks for the tips guys, I really appreciate it. Im not that bad of a skater actually, I have decent top speed, but my acceleration isn't that good. I want to take advantage of my quite long legs. Feels like I'm using 50% of them, when I am this stiff.

This is getting me back problems too, and when I'm as young as I am, I don't just think about my skating, I think about the problems this can get me later in life if I don't do anything about it

 

[michaelshu]

Hi guys
I'm currently teaching a lot of beginners to skate, though i'm not a qualified coach.. i'm just sharing what my past coaches taught me. Well in my country, I'm probably the only option they have...

Anyway, strangely in my 20 - 24 year old group, some of them have that weird thing with their legs... they kinda like formed an "O" shape when they're standing straight (i know there's a medical term for this, i just don't know what it is in English)

Most of guys with this problem have difficulty with balance, any advice to help them improve?

Also, do you guys have any suggestions on how to get rid of wobbly feet quickly? I've tried various methods from online articles and youtube (m2hockey, howtohockey, etc), only some of them were effective on a handful of players.

 

[adaptation]

Im gonna bump this because i have been trying both long narrow pushes and wide short bursts and heres a few observations :

Acceleration: it usually comes down to the same thing for every coach. A ''V-sort of start'', big knee bend, explosions from the toes. While some coaches have their little differences, the first few steps are almost always coached the same way. Best way to work it off the ice is telephone pole sprints and sprinting up a small hill.

Full Speed: This is fairly interesting as i really tried both methods and BOTH can achieve great speed, however they have their disadvantages and advantage.

a) the wide stance : I found this to be much more tiring, and you get exhausted much more quickly - however your balance is better and you are much more ready to receive a pass, receive and give a hit and so on.

b) the ''stamm method'', narrow long pushes : I found this to slightly slower then the wide stance(barely), but much less tiring. However my balance is weak and any bump or pass forces me to switch to a wider stance.

Although i still need to work on both, i found that in sprint situations, i tend to fall in a wider stance mode as i will probably be in contact with the opposing player. However when i backcheck or im on defense and i have to get to the opponents blueline when my forwards are battling behind the net, longer narrow strides tend to do better and are a lot less exhausting.

 

[goonx]

Honestly, I think bringing your legs back towards your center of gravity makes the most sense.

Longer, deep stride = more power

For acceleration wise: quick short strides that dig deep into the ice.

 

[neksys]

I had a good chat with a local but well respected powerskating instructor who said both schools have merit.

This is second hand, and I'm a pretty poor skater, so take it with a grain of salt, but what I was told made a ton of sense:

The vast majority of your power in your stride comes from past shoulder-width.

The way it was explained to me, if you use the wide stance, you generate slightly less forward momentum with each stride but you make up for it with more strides. It is more tiring but you are more stable. Put another way, each stride generates say, 10% less momentum, but you are in a position to take those strides 10% faster.

With the "Stamm" narrow method, you take fewer strides in the same distance. It only generates 10% more momentum per stride because so little of your power comes from the space between your centre-line and just outside shoulder width.

The wide stance is more stable but more fatiguing.
The Stamm method is less stable but less fatiguing.
Both are equally as fast if done properly.

The best advice is to combine them - long, narrow strides to conserve energy when you are not in need of the stability, and changing to the wider stance when the extra energy required for increased stability is worth it (ie: incoming defencemen, etc.)

 

[Stickmata]

I had a good chat with a local but well respected powerskating instructor who said both schools have merit.

This is second hand, and I'm a pretty poor skater, so take it with a grain of salt, but what I was told made a ton of sense:

The vast majority of your power in your stride comes from past shoulder-width.

The way it was explained to me, if you use the wide stance, you generate slightly less forward momentum with each stride but you make up for it with more strides. It is more tiring but you are more stable. Put another way, each stride generates say, 10% less momentum, but you are in a position to take those strides 10% faster.

I would agree with this 100%, as this is exactly what I feel and exactly why I've been working on transition to a wider stance.

 

[krax]

Not skating, but interesting to see that going straight is not the most important factor in a game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-xesd1er1s

 

[marc0polo]

While not exactly the same thing, watch a 100 meter dash and you'll see runners move their arms straight forward. It is physics. Science.

Gunna bump an old topic here, but i think it may be important.

Some stuff about arm movement as part of proper technique
http://www.coachesinfo.com/index.php?option ... s&Itemid=243

Thoughts?

 

[TieClark]

Gunna bump an old topic here, but i think it may be important.

Some stuff about arm movement as part of proper technique
http://www.coachesinfo.com/index.php?option ... s&Itemid=243

Thoughts?

I was taught that swinging your arms side to side does nothing but slow you down and you should be pushing forward like a speed skater. Also you should make a conscious effort to extend your stride fully... often people use short choppy strides and it slows you right down when you don't glide and fully extend your stride for the full strength.

 

[Lola]

I just wanted to thank you all for this discussion. We're working on my son's skating to improve his speed on the ice. This discussion validates the money I've been shelling out for privates.

His skating coach instructed him to start at the 'v' position, and bring his feet up under his shoulders before extending the leg. He currently has a wider stance, and is skating twice as hard to maintain speed. With his legs under his body, he's able to get the full push for acceleration. So, same speed/distance, less work.

 

[wondeROY]

This thread is vitally important IMO. Thanks to r3cc0s for starting it. We now have 2 conflicting theories:

1. The Laura Stamm method (that I have always been taught) - start with feet closer together, arms back and forth - see video posted by Steehead16

2. The Mike Bracko method - start with legs wider, arms side to side - see link here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrAAoE039Vk.

Skaters looking to improve need to know what they should be focussing on.

Both the Laura Stamm and the Mike Bracko website have testimonials, but interestingly, none from higher level hockey players/coaches that I could see. I personally feel that the Laura Stamm method is the right one. It just doesn't make sense to me that you can increase speed with a shorter stride. Then again, Mike Bracko's credentials are impressive.

Surely, there is a correct answer to this important debate?

Sorry to bump an old thread, but I wanted to make a point about this particular statement, above.

Think of it this way, the shorter a stride is, also means the faster your feet are back on the ice and starting the next stride.

Big long strides are great for power, but when it comes to flat out burst speed, I think there is a middle area. Slightly wider stance then Stamm would teach. I have debated this topic for years and with alot of personal experience I found my overall speed is much greater with a wider stance and shorter strides. Again, I agree a longer stride generates more power, but those longer strides take LONGER to complete. Shorter strides = skates back on ice faster, ready to make the next stride.

There is certainly a middle area, I just don't think you can say Laura Stamm's method is the proper and only way. IMO I think that style of skating is really starting to fade out. I don't think waving the arms back and forth is very efficient either. When was the last time you saw a NHL player do this on a break away? Seems to waste energy to me.

 

[LarryO]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but I wanted to make a point about this particular statement, above.

Think of it this way, the shorter a stride is, also means the faster your feet are back on the ice and starting the next stride.

Big long strides are great for power, but when it comes to flat out burst speed, I think there is a middle area. Slightly wider stance then Stamm would teach. I have debated this topic for years and with alot of personal experience I found my overall speed is much greater with a wider stance and shorter strides. Again, I agree a longer stride generates more power, but those longer strides take LONGER to complete. Shorter strides = skates back on ice faster, ready to make the next stride.

There is certainly a middle area, I just don't think you can say Laura Stamm's method is the proper and only way. IMO I think that style of skating is really starting to fade out. I don't think waving the arms back and forth is very efficient either. When was the last time you saw a NHL player do this on a break away? Seems to waste energy to me.

Maybe not on a breakaway since he needs his hands to control the puck, but the opponent who's trying to catch up to him is probably waving his arms.

 

[rokkinman139]

Thanks for the tips guys, I really appreciate it. Im not that bad of a skater actually, I have decent top speed, but my acceleration isn't that good. I want to take advantage of my quite long legs. Feels like I'm using 50% of them, when I am this stiff.

This is getting me back problems too, and when I'm as young as I am, I don't just think about my skating, I think about the problems this can get me later in life if I don't do anything about it

I'm in the same boat as you when it comes to acceleration and such. When I'm in coast or sprint mode, my legs are wide, sometimes outside my hips. When I'm just getting into my stride or low in the defensive zone, my feet are closer in. It allows me to get going quicker to chase the forwards.

I used to have back pain when I skated too, but bending your knees is like magic for that. I used to have my knees locked when I skated, and it killed my knees and back, but those issues are gone now. My private skating coach drilled "knees bent, shoulders square, head up" in my head and it's been the best advice I've gotten for my skating.

 

[Jive Time]

This thread is vitally important IMO. Thanks to r3cc0s for starting it. We now have 2 conflicting theories:

1. The Laura Stamm method (that I have always been taught) - start with feet closer together, arms back and forth - see video posted by Steehead16

2. The Mike Bracko method - start with legs wider, arms side to side - see link here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrAAoE039Vk.

Skaters looking to improve need to know what they should be focussing on.

Both the Laura Stamm and the Mike Bracko website have testimonials, but interestingly, none from higher level hockey players/coaches that I could see. I personally feel that the Laura Stamm method is the right one. It just doesn't make sense to me that you can increase speed with a shorter stride. Then again, Mike Bracko's credentials are impressive.

Surely, there is a correct answer to this important debate?

Here's another video reviewing this topic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka_LxogNTM0

It basically looks at the "Stride and Glide - Push to Side" vs. "Constant Force - Wide Track" presented as Niedermayer - Crosby Skating Styles.

I think there is something to be learned from all of this and there probably isn't one right answer.

 

[El Nino 22]

Bumping this thread because it really helped me.

You don't see a lot of players any more using the Stamm method. In the NHL almost all players use a wide Bracko style of skating. It's just much more powerful and allows for a quicker recovery time which makes it faster. I play high school hockey so I am able to see some really good skaters and some not so good skaters and almost all of the weaker skaters use the Stamm method whereas almost all of the great skaters use have a wide stride and use the Bracko method.

 

[PlayoffBeard365]

Bumping this thread because it really helped me.

You don't see a lot of players any more using the Stamm method. In the NHL almost all players use a wide Bracko style of skating. It's just much more powerful and allows for a quicker recovery time which makes it faster. I play high school hockey so I am able to see some really good skaters and some not so good skaters and almost all of the weaker skaters use the Stamm method whereas almost all of the great skaters use have a wide stride and use the Bracko method.

This statement is interesting. I have not read this thread yet. Very timely however.

I started skating 16 months ago. Getting 1 on 1 private weekly lessons. The teacher is well versed/certified in Stamm method. Her methods definitely helped me get my feet underneath me and play pick up hockey.

After a year or so I started watching NHL/college level hockey more intensely. How they position, skate etc. None of them Stamm! I was like, WTH is up with that!?!

So, over the last few months I have started to use a wider stride and it really has boosted my speed and balance on the ice. To the point that others are commenting on my skate speed and overall improvement.

I have not heard of Bracko but will read this thread and anything I can find on it.

 

[pritz]

Anyone else besides Bracko in Calgary you would also recommend for powerskating and technique?

I live in Calgary and would like to get some one on one training for my 15 year old son.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Skating style is one of those things where there isn't really a "right" way, but there are plenty of wrong ways.

 

[Elias Pettersson]

For the bracko way, when you bring your skate back, are you on your inside edge??

 

[MegaAlf]

I get low and take fast deep strides. I'm right handed. I launch off with my left foot first, transitioning my weight to my right leg and use the momentum to launch off stronger with the right.

 

[Tuffhockey]

I will be doing an unofficial experiment on this topic as I have a son and daughter who both play competitive hockey. My so is a tier 1 player, and my daughter(one year older)is a tier 2 player. They are both excellent overall athletes, playing multiple sports, but my son has really excelled early on in hockey. He has a natural heavy shot, and is the fastest player on his team. He has a wider stance when going full tilt, but as it stands now he is still short and will benefit by growing a bit.

They have both done a lot of power skating, and all with the same company. I haven't really noticed if they are coaching a wide stance)Bracko style, or full foot return like Stamm. They have focused more on edge work, the glide, cross overs, and chest high.

My daughter is having some difficulty with her speed, and I really feel it's her technique. She has a slow foot return, and a very long stride. Seems par for the course here, after reading most of this thread, in that she has great top end speed, but poor acceleration. I am going to see if I can show her some videos of the Bracko style and have her try this out for her next practice. I will have to wait until we get the ODR going for me to actually work with her though.

So far leaning towards the Bracko style as that is what my son does, and he is lightning fast.

 

[StLHokie]

For the bracko way, when you bring your skate back, are you on your inside edge??

You are almost exclusively on your inside edges using the Bracko method. The only time you are on your outside edges is during turning.

I will be doing an unofficial experiment on this topic as I have a son and daughter who both play competitive hockey. My so is a tier 1 player, and my daughter(one year older)is a tier 2 player. They are both excellent overall athletes, playing multiple sports, but my son has really excelled early on in hockey. He has a natural heavy shot, and is the fastest player on his team. He has a wider stance when going full tilt, but as it stands now he is still short and will benefit by growing a bit.

They have both done a lot of power skating, and all with the same company. I haven't really noticed if they are coaching a wide stance)Bracko style, or full foot return like Stamm. They have focused more on edge work, the glide, cross overs, and chest high.

My daughter is having some difficulty with her speed, and I really feel it's her technique. She has a slow foot return, and a very long stride. Seems par for the course here, after reading most of this thread, in that she has great top end speed, but poor acceleration. I am going to see if I can show her some videos of the Bracko style and have her try this out for her next practice. I will have to wait until we get the ODR going for me to actually work with her though.

So far leaning towards the Bracko style as that is what my son does, and he is lightning fast.

I was taught the Bracko style, and have been one of the fastest skaters at almost every level of competition I've played at. Top end speed is really only valuable if you have the space to get to it. If your kids are playing at the appropriate level, then they will rarely hit the top end speed required for the Stamm method to be beneficial just due to the fact that other players will take their time and space away. Most of the guys in the NHL today use the Bracko method as well. Check out this MacKinnon racing a speed skater video and notice how wide his stride is.

 

[LarryO]

You are almost exclusively on your inside edges using the Bracko method. The only time you are on your outside edges is during turning.




I was taught the Bracko style, and have been one of the fastest skaters at almost every level of competition I've played at. Top end speed is really only valuable if you have the space to get to it. If your kids are playing at the appropriate level, then they will rarely hit the top end speed required for the Stamm method to be beneficial just due to the fact that other players will take their time and space away. Most of the guys in the NHL today use the Bracko method as well. Check out this MacKinnon racing a speed skater video and notice how wide his stride is.

If you play it in slow motion, after the first 2 or 3 steps of his running start, each of his strides starts with his foot pretty much under him, so he's not always on his inside edge. Maybe he's not the best example of the Bracko method. Or am I missing something?