Is the Soviet national team between 1978-1984 the best ever?

[Peter25]

During 1978-1984 Soviet Union was pretty much unbeatable excluding the 1980 Olympics. It won the World Championships of 1978, 1979, 1981, 1982 and 1983 as well as the Olympic games of 1984.

The Soviets beat the NHL competition in 1979 Challenge Cup and 1981 Canada Cup with convincing victories, beating the NHL All Stars 6-0 in the final game in 1979 and crushing team Canada 8-1 in 1981 final game. As a sidenote it should be mentioned that after the Canada Cup final the officiating policy would be changed and Canadian referees would later officiate Canada's games. The 1981 final was officiated by a Swedish referee.

The Soviet were dominant in the World Championships during this period. In 1979 the Soviets won Sweden by the scores of 9-3 and 11-3, won Canada by the scores of 5-2 and 9-2 and won Czechoslovakia by the scores of 11-1 and 6-1. The Soviet performance in the 1979 World Championships is still the most dominating performance in the history of this tournament.

In the 1981 World Championships the Soviets beat Sweden in the decisive Gold-medal game by the score of 13-1. This is the most lopsided victory between two top teams in modern hockey. The Soviets also beat Canada 8-2 and Czechoslovakia 8-3 in this tournament.

In the 1983 World Championships the Soviets beat Canada twice with the score of 8-2.

In the 1984 Olympics the Soviets steamrolled over Sweden by the score of 10-1.

Is this the best hockey team ever assembled? I think it is, because not only was it pretty much unbeatable, but it was able to steamroll over other top teams in the world. The best NHL players were no match for the Soviets and neither were the other European teams.

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[Rhiessan71]

Is this the best hockey team ever assembled? I think it is, because not only was it pretty much unbeatable, but it was able to steamroll over other top teams in the world. The best NHL players were no match for the Soviets and neither were the other European teams.

*cough*1980*cough*

And I would put the '76-'79 Habs above any of those Soviet teams.

 

[Peter25]

What makes this team special is it's ability to routinely steamroll over other top hockey nations. I don't think any other team has had this ability ever since.

For example Canada's victories in Canada Cups were extremely narrow, despite having the edge in home crowd, rules and after the 1981 catastrophe even it's own referees (which greatly benefited Canada because Canadian refs tended to favor their own nation).

Czechoslovakia had a great team in the 1970's and won three World Championship titles in that decade, but they were never dominant the way the Soviets were in 1978-1984. The Czechoslovakian victories were a result of great goaltending, defense and team play, and of course skill, but the crushing dominance of the Soviets was never there.

Sweden, Finland or the United States have never had a team that could be even remotely compared to the Soviets.

 

[Peter25]

*cough*1980*cough

There is a reason why it is called a "miracle". It was indeed a miracle. In the next day the Soviets went back to their "normal" form and trounced Sweden 9-2, even if half of their players didn't care about the result of that game.

And I would put the '76-'79 Habs above any of those Soviet teams.

Nope. The Soviets were vastly better.

 

[Rhiessan71]

Nope. The Soviets were vastly better.

You mean the same Soviets that were lucky to come out their game with a 3-3 tie vs those exact Habs

If not for Tretiak's heroics and Dryden's sup-par play, that game should have been like 8-0 or 9-1. The Habs dominated them.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

During 1978-1984 Soviet Union was pretty much unbeatable excluding the 1980 Olympics. It won the World Championships of 1978, 1979, 1981, 1982 and 1983 as well as the Olympic games of 1984.

The Soviets beat the NHL competition in 1979 Challenge Cup and 1981 Canada Cup with convincing victories, beating the NHL All Stars 6-0 in the final game in 1979 and crushing team Canada 8-1 in 1981 final game. As a sidenote it should be mentioned that after the Canada Cup final the officiating policy would be changed and Canadian referees would later officiate Canada's games. The 1981 final was officiated by a Swedish referee.

The Soviet were dominant in the World Championships during this period. In 1979 the Soviets won Sweden by the scores of 9-3 and 11-3, won Canada by the scores of 5-2 and 9-2 and won Czechoslovakia by the scores of 11-1 and 6-1. The Soviet performance in the 1979 World Championships is still the most dominating performance in the history of this tournament.

In the 1981 World Championships the Soviets beat Sweden in the decisive Gold-medal game by the score of 13-1. This is the most lopsided victory between two top teams in modern hockey. The Soviets also beat Canada 8-2 and Czechoslovakia 8-3 in this tournament.

In the 1983 World Championships the Soviets beat Canada twice with the score of 8-2.

In the 1984 Olympics the Soviets steamrolled over Sweden by the score of 10-1.

Is this the best hockey team ever assembled? I think it is, because not only was it pretty much unbeatable, but it was able to steamroll over other top teams in the world. The best NHL players were no match for the Soviets and neither were the other European teams.

Yes.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

You mean the same Soviets that were lucky to come out their game with a 3-3 tie vs those exact Habs

If not for Tretiak's heroics and Dryden's sup-par play, that game should have been like 8-0 or 9-1. The Habs dominated them.

Using one game as an argument? And its not even a win.

So Tretiak and Dryden are not part of those team?

Gee, they only tied in Montreal, on different size rink with NHL rules and officials during a grueling North American tour.

Was anyone beating that team in the Soviet Union? Or even being willing to play them there?

 

[Henkka]

Could you name the rosters from those 1978 - 1984 Soviet teams?

I always hated but also admired them. That was just unbelieveable hockey. Nothing but puck possession, tic-tac-toe, skating like a wind, controlling the puck all the time, so the opponent won't have puck and can't do nothing.

It had a great influece also for the North American Hockey. We would never entertain nowadays hockey like it currently is without those Glory Soviet days. Thank you Tikhonov for that.

But I think the domination was still mainly based on great system play. And any team which practises a whole season or even years together dominates another one that is together just for few games in a National Team -style tournament. Soviets had always an advantage of it. They were the only National team that was togerher a full season. Wasn't it basicly the ZSKA and maybe one line from Dynamo or whatsoever?

NHL Dynasty team like Bowman's 70s Montreal that is full year and seasons together can challenge them with equal advantage. But all kind of "NHL All-Stars" are crap teams, because they just won't have the chemistry together in a short period of time. Put them together for years, and they would dominate.

 

[Rhiessan71]

Using one game as an argument? And its not even a win.

So Tretiak and Dryden are not part of those team?

Gee, they only tied in Montreal, on different size rink with NHL rules and officials during a grueling North American tour.

Was anyone beating that team in the Soviet Union? Or even being willing to play them there?

Have you watched that game?
There's a reason why it's called one of the greatest games ever and it's not because the Soviets didn't show up.
The Habs were every bit their equal offensively but what made that game so good was that the puck possession by both teams was insane, even by today's standards.
The difference though, was that the Habs were, to a man, greatly superior defensively.

 

[Peter25]

You mean the same Soviets that were lucky to come out their game with a 3-3 tie vs those exact Habs

If not for Tretiak's heroics and Dryden's sup-par play, that game should have been like 8-0 or 9-1. The Habs dominated them.

That game was played in 1976 when the Soviets had not hit their peak yet. The peak started in 1978.

And like the other poster said it was only a one game in the middle of a grueling North American tour, and the game ended with a tie.

The late 1970's Habs were a great team, but saying they were better than the 1978-1984 Soviets is pretty ridiculous.

As I said that Soviet team had a special ability to steamroll over it's greatest rivals Czechoslovakia, Canada and Sweden. No other team has had this ability in modern hockey history.

If you put together the best Canadian team featuring the Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr and Howe in their primes it would still not win Swedish national team with a score of 13-1 like the Soviets did in the 1981 WC final game. In that regard the Soviet team was special.

What makes that 13-1 victory even more ridiculous is the fact that Soviets had zero powerplays in the game and scored all of their 13 goals in even strenght situation. Another strange fact is that after that first period the score was still 0-0. The Soviets would win the next two periods by the scores of 6-0 and 7-1.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Have you watched that game?
There's a reason why it's called one of the greatest games ever and it's not because the Soviets didn't show up.
The Habs were every bit their equal offensively but what made that game so good was that the puck possession by both teams was insane, even by today's standards.
The difference though, was that the Habs were, to a man, greatly superior defensively.

Yes, I have seen the game.

And yet it was 3-3. In Montreal. Smaller ice. Different rules. And yet it was 3-3.

 

[Hammer Time]

There's a good case that the 1981 USSR national team (Green Unit and Tretiak) was the greatest team ever in terms of the results they achieved. 13-1 win over hosts Sweden in the World Championships, 8-3 win over Czechoslovakia, 8-1 win over Canada in the Canada Cup final. Their only loss all year was a 7-3 loss to Canada in a meaningless (i.e. both teams had already qualified for the semis) preliminary round game of the Canada Cup, when they rested Tretiak.

On paper I still think the 1976 Canadian team had a stronger roster.

 

[Cruor]

Unequivocally, yes. I don't care about the usual excuses that Canada couldn't field their best or train their best over an extended training camp. Any team that beats Sweden 50+ times in a row, and in that fashion deserves that honour. USSR made hockey an art and had the results to show for it. Hats off.

 

[Peter25]

Could you name the rosters from those 1978 - 1984 Soviet teams?

The Soviet roster in 1981 Canada Cup final game (8-1):

Vladimir Krutov - Igor Larionov - Sergei Makarov
Sergei Kapustin - Sergei Shepelev - Viktor Shalimov
Vladimir Golikov - Irek Gimayev - Nikolai Drozdetsky
Andrei Khomutov - Viktor Zhluktov - Alexander Skvortsov

Vyacheslav Fetisov - Alexei Kasatonov
Sergei Babinov - Valeri Vasilyev
Vasili Pervukhin - Zinetula Bilyaletdinov

Vladislav Tretyak

The Soviet roster in the 1979 Challenge Cup 3rd game (6-0)

Alexander Golikov - Vladimir Petrov - Boris Mikhailov
Sergei Kapustin - Viktor Zhluktov - Helmut Balderis
Mikhail Varnakov - Vladimir Kovin - Alexander Skvortsov
Irek Gimayev - Viktor Tyumenev - Sergei Makarov

Sergei Starikov - Valeri Vasilyev
Vasili Pervukhin - Zinetula Bilyaletdinov
Sergei Babinov - Yuri Fedorov

Vladimir Myshkin

I always hated but also admired them. That was just unbelieveable hockey. Nothing but puck possession, tic-tac-toe, skating like a wind, controlling the puck all the time, so the opponent won't have puck and can't do nothing.

Yep, they would constantly pass the puck back to their own end and attack, attack and attack, while not giving up the possession of the puck. They would wear the opponent down mentally and physically, and capitalize on their scoring opportunities with a solid percentage.

But I think the domination was still mainly based on great system play.

The Soviets had a great system but without great players that system would have been useless.

And any team which practises a whole season or even years together dominates another one that is together just for few games in a National Team -style tournament.

The Soviet national team never practiced together for a whole year.

Soviets had always an advantage of it. They were the only National team that was togerher a full season. Wasn't it basicly the ZSKA and maybe one line from Dynamo or whatsoever?

Usually the national team had about 40-50% of it's players from CSKA. Other players came from Dynamo Moscow, Spartak Moscow and various other teams like Voskresensk and Gorky.

For example that Varnakov-Kovin-Skvortsov line which was great in the Challenge Cup played together in Gorky. So did defenseman Yuri Fedorov who also played in the Challenge Cup. It was rare that a non-Moscow team had four players in the national team like Torpedo Gorky did in 1979 against the NHL All Stars.

Also, three regular defensemen of that "peak" Soviet team (Vasilyev, Pervukhin and Bilyaletdinov) were Dynamo Moscow players. Alexander Maltsev and the Golikov brother Vladimir and Alexander came from Dynamo as well. So did the great line of Sergei Yashin, Anatoli Semenov and Sergei Svetlov who played together from 1981 to 1989.

The 1982 World Championships team had five forwards from Spartak Moscow: Kapustin, Shepelev, Shalimov, Viktor Tyumenev and Alexander Kozhevnikov. This is almost half of their forwards.

NHL Dynasty team like Bowman's 70s Montreal that is full year and seasons together can challenge them with equal advantage. But all kind of "NHL All-Stars" are crap teams, because they just won't have the chemistry together in a short period of time. Put them together for years, and they would dominate.

Monreal Canadiens is a club team so it was naturally together for a full year

 

[Peter25]

If anyone is interested here are the highlights of the Soviet-Sweden game from 1981 WC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ3x6aQSnKs

 

[Cruor]

I was looking for a goal by Makarov for another thread but couldn't find it, instead I stumbled upon the great Swedish documentary CCCP Hockey. For Swedish or Russian speakers it should provide some interest, even for those who don't speak either language it contains some good gameplay and training footage.

Part 1 of 5:

 

[Hardyvan123]

Could you name the rosters from those 1978 - 1984 Soviet teams?

I always hated but also admired them. That was just unbelieveable hockey. Nothing but puck possession, tic-tac-toe, skating like a wind, controlling the puck all the time, so the opponent won't have puck and can't do nothing.

It had a great influece also for the North American Hockey. We would never entertain nowadays hockey like it currently is without those Glory Soviet days. Thank you Tikhonov for that.

But I think the domination was still mainly based on great system play. And any team which practises a whole season or even years together dominates another one that is together just for few games in a National Team -style tournament. Soviets had always an advantage of it. They were the only National team that was togerher a full season. Wasn't it basicly the ZSKA and maybe one line from Dynamo or whatsoever?

NHL Dynasty team like Bowman's 70s Montreal that is full year and seasons together can challenge them with equal advantage. But all kind of "NHL All-Stars" are crap teams, because they just won't have the chemistry together in a short period of time. Put them together for years, and they would dominate.

Pretty much this, those soviet teams were great as a whole but a lot of their success was system based and alot of thsoe players played alot with each other over time as well.

give some top NHL teams, never mind Canadian squads that kind of time and practice and they could have done just as well, although to be fair comparing National teams to club teams isn't a great or fair measurement either.

 

[Cruor]

...those soviet teams were great as a whole but a lot of their success was system based and alot of thsoe players played alot with each other over time as well.

This type of argument keeps coming up, and I still can't see how it's a knock against the USSR. They did it. No one else could or bothered to do it, more power to them. It's like Barcelona dominating football with a whole XI of home grown players...If the system enables them to, great. Everything else is sour grapes.

 

[canuck2010]

Sorry Peter I'm not buying what you're cooking. There was only one country in the world that could play with the Soviets of that era. The difference was that the Soviets were the only country of those two that were able to operate a National Team program

To say they were the best based on the "proof" that you provide is only opinion. The world championships of that era are totally irrelevant in proving your premise as is the NHL Challenge Cup series. Come on a stacked team well used to playing together taking on an All Star thrown together a few days before. Not all the players on the NHL All Stars were Canadian by the way. Results of those games are really meaningless as well.

Pounding lesser teams by big scores was really only about trying to prove the superiority of the system. As words in the popular song go "that don't impress me much".

 

[canuck2010]

This type of argument keeps coming up, and I still can't see how it's a knock against the USSR. They did it. No one else could or bothered to do it, more power to them. It's like Barcelona dominating football with a whole XI of home grown players...If the system enables them to, great. Everything else is sour grapes.

Not sour grapes at all. You are aware that Canada could not send it's best players to a World Championship until 1977 and then only some in any given year. To use the results of those games to support the premise that they were the best is totally flawed.

 

[LeBlondeDemon10]

I'd agree with greatest International team ever assembled. Greatest team ever? Again, we are into speculation because the sample size of games versus NHL or International teams is so small. Yes, they were lucky to come out with a 3-3 tie in the 75 NYE game. Don't forget though that in the 79 NYE game, Montreal beat them 4-2 with no Dryden, Lemaire, Cournoyer or Bowman.

In the 81 CC, TC beat them 7-3 in the RR. However the Soviets won the crucial game. I'd like to see what would have happened over a 7 game series. I cannot recall what happened with the Soviets in the 84 CC, but I know they weren't in the final. Injuries? Didn't play well?

 

[shazariahl]

I'd agree with greatest International team ever assembled. Greatest team ever? Again, we are into speculation because the sample size of games versus NHL or International teams is so small. Yes, they were lucky to come out with a 3-3 tie in the 75 NYE game. Don't forget though that in the 79 NYE game, Montreal beat them 4-2 with no Dryden, Lemaire, Cournoyer or Bowman.

In the 81 CC, TC beat them 7-3 in the RR. However the Soviets won the crucial game. I'd like to see what would have happened over a 7 game series. I cannot recall what happened with the Soviets in the 84 CC, but I know they weren't in the final. Injuries? Didn't play well?

This is my opinion too. They were probably the best international team, but other than Canada, which other teams were really elite? The Czechs were good, but their best teams were earlier in the decade. The Soviets were probably the best, but as others have mentioned, they were beaten by Montreal in 79, lost 7-3 to Canada but beat them 8-1 the next time (so edge to the Soviets, but hard to make conclusive decisions based on a 2 game sample, especially when the teams each won 1 game). Lost to the Americans in 80.

The sample size vs elite competition is pretty small. The Soviets were the best team in this era, but does that mean they were the best ever? Hard to say. Team Canada in the 20s-50's were even more dominant, but their competition was even worse. Hard to evaluate things based on these limited samples.

 

[shazariahl]

If you are just looking for a team that dominated more than any other, obviously Canada in the 20's and 30's stand out the most. But equally obvious, the competition level was laughable.

 

[VMBM]

You mean the same Soviets that were lucky to come out their game with a 3-3 tie vs those exact Habs

If not for Tretiak's heroics and Dryden's sup-par play, that game should have been like 8-0 or 9-1. The Habs dominated them.

There was a big difference between the Soviet national team and CSKA, depth-wise. The Habs played against CSKA in 1975 (and 1979).

Or how often did you see guys like Popov, Solodukhin and Volchenkov play for the national team?

 

[Theokritos]

OP was referring to the 1978-1984 Soviet National Team, not 1975-1976 CSKA Moscow or 1979-1980 CSKA Moscow.