Is the Selke an accurate award?

[SnowblindNYR]

Being that the media aren't hockey experts and playing defense is the most difficult trait to accurately measure by stats and probably by the eye test as well and the fact that it seems that a lot of players just get nominations year after year, is it the most inaccurate award?

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[hotcabbagesoup]

The Norris is more inaccurate because you can score 100s of points as a defenseman and your team can still be one of the worst five teams in the league because you suck at defense, Erik.

 

[FloJack]

The voting strikes me as fairly inaccurate this year. Not sure about winner.

 

[dgibb10]

Winner is almost always a deserving (at least top 2-3) guy but the downballot is hilariously bad every year

 

[Brodeur]

Definitely not the most accurate per se, but seemingly the voting has gotten less strange over the years. I know that most people argue about who should win, but I get more amusement to see the outlier votes. Back in the day, it was a safe bet that a few writers would be lazy and vote for whichever forward had the best +/-.

In particular, Thomas Vanek got a few Selke votes when he led the league in +/- in 2006-07. My memory if fuzzy, but I seem to recall that Lindy Ruff would bench Vanek late in playoff games when they were nursing a lead.

But yeah, seems normal to have a local beat writer slip in a 4th or 5th place for a guy that they cover. Somebody gave Tomas Tatar a third place vote last year seemingly for +/- reasons. After a quick lookup, Tatar played 7 seconds of shorthanded time in the entire season. Maybe just me, but if I thought a guy was the third best defensive forward in the league, I'd expect a little bit more PK time.

 

[Ishdul]

There's an issue about it being based on two-way ability rather than pure defensive ability but I prefer that anyways.

 

[The Nuge]

Winner is almost always a deserving (at least top 2-3) guy but the downballot is hilariously bad every year

This. There are often nominees even who raise eyebrows, but I can’t think of anyone who’s actually won where you can’t at least make an argument he was the best.

 

[DearDiary]

The Norris is more inaccurate because you can score 100s of points as a defenseman and your team can still be one of the worst five teams in the league because you suck at defense, Erik.

Sharks were -55 when Karlsson wasn't on the ice.

Karlsson was also +/- 0 at 5on5 playing behind by far the leagues worst goaltending with a -44 GSAA. His bad +/- was solely due to 25 empty net goals against.

He also put up 101 points playing with bad players, finishing 2nd in the league in 5on5 points with 65, which was also ahead of McDavid.

The Sharks would had a historically terrible season if they didn't have Karlsson, who was clearly the leagues best defenseman that season.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Hasn't been reliable since whenever the chucklef***s in the PWHA decided that wingers couldn't win the Selke.

 

[PK Cronin]

It's not accurate because you have to have some level of status to be considered, as with any subjective award.

 

[justHypnos]

this is ....... really sad at this point.

How did they do this year?

47 points -150

last year

60 points - 87

3/4 of a goal per game better with him than without.

So, first off, you are dead ugly, mongoloid idiot wrong

Secondly, a year later and you still need to broadcast how stupid you are.

Yeah... the only difference between the Sharks roster last year and this year is Karlsson. Not Meier, Couture, 30 games of Hertl, your entire bottom 6 minus Sturm, half the defense, half your goalies. Just Karlsson. Just so you know you played at a 49 points, -156 pace last year after just trading Meier

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

this is ....... really sad at this point.

How did they do this year?

47 points -150

last year

60 points - 87

3/4 of a goal per game better with him than without.

So, first off, you are dead ugly, mongoloid idiot wrong

Secondly, a year later and you still need to broadcast how stupid you are.

The insult is hilarious.

However, the Sharks also had

Logan Couture - 82 games, 67 points.
This season 6 games, 0 points.

Tomas Hertl 79 games 63 points
48 games 35 points

Timo Meier 52 points in 57 games including 31 goals.
Was traded at the 2023 deadline and didn't play for San Jose.

So, you lost there 119 points and some good players and assuming that difference is really all Karlsson ?

Come on, man.

 

[Leaf Fans]

The guy that is the best defensive forward in the NHL won it.

 

[DaveG]

It's not accurate because you have to have some level of status to be considered, as with any subjective award.

Not wrong, but that's changing a little bit thankfully. For example Seth Jarvis this year with a well deserved 8th place finish. I can't recall the last time I've seen a player on their ELC finish that high. Even Bergeron and Jordan Staal didn't do it. Don't recall if Cerelli was on his ELC when he finished 4th.

Selke voting has been weird as hell since the lost season though. As mentioned by @Brodeur you get guys that have no business even getting votes at all like Vanek getting multiple first place votes because of their +/- when they're absolute tire fires defensively. You don't get the Kris Drapers of the world winning it anymore (closest we had is Pahlsson as a finalist) or even being a finalist much anymore. The winner is usually someone that should have at worst been in the top 3, but there are times the others in the top 3 are of the "this guy is pretty good defensively but this still feels more based on their offensive season" variety... if we're lucky. A few of the recent finalists have been real headscratchers.

 

[Goptor]

Coach of the year is the most inaccurate. There are only 2 options:

-Team has the best record in the league so the coach had to do something correct, right?
-Last years team was bad and this years team is good. That must mean this years coach was proportionately better than last years coach.

 

[njdevils1982]

Not wrong, but that's changing a little bit thankfully. For example Seth Jarvis this year with a well deserved 8th place finish. I can't recall the last time I've seen a player on their ELC finish that high. Even Bergeron and Jordan Staal didn't do it. Don't recall if Cerelli was on his ELC when he finished 4th.

Selke voting has been weird as hell since the lost season though. As mentioned by @Brodeur you get guys that have no business even getting votes at all like Vanek getting multiple first place votes because of their +/- when they're absolute tire fires defensively. You don't get the Kris Drapers of the world winning it anymore (closest we had is Pahlsson as a finalist) or even being a finalist much anymore. The winner is usually someone that should have at worst been in the top 3, but there are times the others in the top 3 are of the "this guy is pretty good defensively but this still feels more based on their offensive season" variety... if we're lucky. A few of the recent finalists have been real headscratchers.

john madden '01 is another 'throwback'

 

[CanadienShark]

Winner is usually right, but sometimes, like this year, the finalists are just a load of shit (except Barkov).

 

[the_fan]

They got the winner right in Barkov, but Staal being nominated was kinda random and made no sense. There were more deserving guys out there

 

[Cats2TheCup]

Sasha Barkov is the most underrated hockey player in the NHL.

 

[I am Bettman]

Hard to quantify defensive play, so I feel like it just ends up as a mostly reputation award. Barkov winning this year kind of feels like he was just the best of the remaining guys post Bergeron. The way Bergeron was winning them just felt different from the Barkov win this year. Felt like he actually dominated defensively instead of just being all around solid like Barkov. Sort of like the difference between a Tim Thomas vezina win and whoever wins this year. Thomas felt like he just outright earned the award, not like this year where it’s more about being the best option. I would like to see how some people are quantifying Barkov’s defensive impact.

 

[McVespa99]

Being that the media aren't hockey experts and playing defense is the most difficult trait to accurately measure by stats and probably by the eye test as well and the fact that it seems that a lot of players just get nominations year after year, is it the most inaccurate award?

No it is not accurate. It is a reputation award.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

It is the most accurate award one can win.

 

[McVespa99]

It is the most accurate award one can win.

I assume this is facetious

 

[pi314]

Would like to see more 4th line PK kind of guys get honored.

 

[acor]

No award is accurate (although sometimes "right" people wins), and yes- Selke is one of most inaccurate, due to defense being hard to quantify, and most "defensive forwards" simply not being a star players... So it usually goes to some star player with reputation of "being good at defense", who had best overall year.

BUT, IMO people gives awards more meaning than they actually deserve- I understand that every organization needs awards, but people don't need to make such a big deal out of them. you know yourself who in your opinion was best player/forward/defenseman. You don't need some random commite to tell you this.