Is the current league another level above the 80s and 90s?

[illpucks]

Only player that would really excel is Pavel as he played in the wrong era for his skillset. Might be better than McDavid today if he was teleported from early 90s.

 

[Nihiliste]

This pretty much a definition of an embarrasengly BAD Post.

the US is trending towards 100% obesity. If you think the whole population being sedentary doesn’t limit the pool of available athletes that’s a you problem

 

[tarheelhockey]

I pretty much guarantee that more NHL players smoke joints now than at any time in history.

You might have an argument about cocaine.

More and more 80s NHL players smoked during intermission every single time we talk about it. Now we’ve made the leap from cigarettes to outright doing drugs in mid-game dressing rooms.

Meanwhile, we have absolutely zero evidence of current pro athletes playing drunk or high, to say nothing of an off-ice/field lifestyle that would harm their performance. Never heard of anything like that, not since the 80s.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

world population 1920: 2 billion

2021: 8 billion

The lower end talent is most likely better at the least. "floor" is higher.

That's a really silly way to fudge numbers. Global population growth has little to do with hockey talent.

How does Global Population growth explain this?
Hockey Canada faces uncertainty as registration numbers plummet

 

[NyQuil]

More and more 80s NHL players smoked during intermission every single time we talk about it. Now we’ve made the leap from cigarettes to outright doing drugs in mid-game dressing rooms.

Meanwhile, we have absolutely zero evidence of current pro athletes playing drunk or high, to say nothing of an off-ice/field lifestyle that would harm their performance. Never heard of anything like that, not since the 80s.

There have certainly been advancements in diet and exercise options for players but ultimately I think it is all rooted in a significant cultural shift whereby training camp used to be for players to get into shape for the season and now it's for team staff to assess whether their players meet their expectations of already being in game shape when they arrive.

 

[authentic]

Stop the narrative that players today are better. Players train better and are faster. Also skates and technique improves. Yet you look at someone like Mike Gartner who started in the mid 80s and was still the fastest player in the league in his late 30s towards the end of the 90s. You got to witness an old man become even a greater skater due to an improvement in equipment. Was he faster at 38 compared to to early 20's? You got to see the old men transition to the modern game and still dominate. Lemieux as an old broken man came back and dominated. Gretzky was getting 70 or more points in the dead puck era as a late 30s cripple. Messier as a 43 year old changed his diapers between intermissions yet was still getting 40 points at his age. Selanne scored 30 plus goals as a 40 year old. Jagr came back in his early 40s and look what he did his first season back in the NHL. You got to see the 80s era play till the early 2000s and they were all superior to the younger players at that time.

I don't think anyone is disputing the top end talent, but the league as a whole is certainly on another level compared to the 80s.

 

[authentic]

Another guy who cant comprehend what i was saying so i'll do it for you guys since you cant read fully either

When i said "floor" is higher, and posted the world population, i implied there would be MORE people on earth, meaning MORE hockey players

More competitive but not necessarily more skilled at the top end, still means a higher "floor"

As I literally said.

In fact, i even implied the talents weren't higher, just that there was more. I'm worried about you guys.


There is objectively more hockey players, which means the worst players at these tiers are selected from a larger field, raising the floor. If you have ever played in a small town vs larger city, such as the GTAHL versus any town "A" teams, the difference in skill over an entire team composition is noticeable.



It's just Ferraro trying to fill dead-air with a hot take.

Not only has the same play been attempted many times, but guys actually score on it.

I think it was the way he turned his body like he was pulling out front from the side of the net to put it far side then went between his legs, but yeah it was probably an overreaction on Ferraro's part considering he didn't even score on it.

 

[authentic]

Do I think that Lemieux, Jagr, Gretzky, Sakic, Forsberg, Yzerman, Shanahan, Pronger, Niedermeyer, Iginla, Messier, Lindros, Bure, Lidstrom, Federov, Roy, Brodeur, Hasek, Selanne, Leetch, Bourque, etc wouldn’t be able to hang and excel in the current league? To suggest that is frankly pretty laughable since we saw overlap with many of these guys and many modern players.

In the early-mid 10s where the league was allowing tons of interference, I wouldn’t even have said the game on average was better.

Since the Pens back to back wins tilted the league in favor of speed and skill, I do think the average level has gone up. Everyone has to be a quality skater now.

The game on average was definitely better then, just as it is every decade. Not really debatable even if you just watch games from the early 2000s to the early 2010s.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

By 2040 players will have achieved flight.

 

[habsrule4eva3089]

Since the game is now just played by rich people at the high levels you don't see the variety in talent that you once did. The 90's were the last era of regular neighborhood kids becoming pros, which made for amazing personalities compared to the vanilla rich kids of today.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Since the game is now just played by rich people at the high levels you don't see the variety in talent that you once did. The 90's were the last era of regular neighborhood kids becoming pros, which made for amazing personalities compared to the vanilla rich kids of today.

Also the end of a Soviet regime.

 

[BruinDust]

The game itself is faster today.
The players in today's game skate better and stick handle better.
Goalies in today's game stop the puck better.
---
What keeps getting forgotten:
Equipment has gotten much lighter and less restricting so players today can move quicker. Just the skate technology makes a huge difference in the way players can move on the ice. A player of equal talent and skill today will automatically look much better than their counterpart in the 80s for this reason alone. Does anyone really think that Ovechkin's shot would be as good using the old Titan and Koho's of the 80s? The reason an "average" NHL player today can shoot the way they do is the technology in the sticks.
But then add on top of that the training these players have grown up with. In the 60s, 70s, and 80s the players did not have access to the high end coaching, trainers, and dieticians that players today do.
Goaltending. Just take a look at a picture of a goalie in the 80s and a goalie today. Enough said on that.
---
I'm not complaining about today's game (other than game management), but I don't think the top end players today are any better than the top end players from the 80s. Their performance level is up, but the raw talent is not.

When it comes to the evolution of the NHL game, the advances in skates is often ignored.

Everyone talks about sticks and the weight of goalie gear. But the advances in skates from the 1970s until today is unreal and a major reason why the game is as fast today as it is. I went from a mid-level modern skate (2014 model) to the higher end pro-level model of the same line (Bauer Nexus 2014) and the difference between those two skates in terms of performance I found drastic. So how big of a difference are today's skates compared to the 2000s, or 1980s/90s, or even the 1970s if two skates made in the same year are miles apart.

The power they can generate, the edgework, the balance, it's like night and day from even 10 years ago, let alone 30 or 40.

 

[DonM]

What exactly are these advances in nutrition that were achieved between 1985 and now?

 

[authentic]

When it comes to the evolution of the NHL game, the advances in skates is often ignored.

Everyone talks about sticks and the weight of goalie gear. But the advances in skates from the 1970s until today is unreal and a major reason why the game is as fast today as it is. I went from a mid-level modern skate (2014 model) to the higher end pro-level model of the same line (Bauer Nexus 2014) and the difference between those two skates in terms of performance I found drastic. So how big of a difference are today's skates compared to the 2000s, or 1980s/90s, or even the 1970s if two skates made in the same year are miles apart.

The power they can generate, the edgework, the balance, it's like night and day from even 10 years ago, let alone 30 or 40.

Players today would have a hard time not breaking their ankles if they tried to skate like Orr did in those skates. The ankle support was horrendous compared to recent skates.

 

[pdavemoney]

Only player that would really excel is Pavel as he played in the wrong era for his skillset. Might be better than McDavid today if he was teleported from early 90s.

The only player from the 90s that would excel in today's NHL is Bure?!?! I promise you nearly every high end talent from the 90s would excel now. Jagr, Fedorov, Sakic, Forsberg, Kariya, Lindros, ummm Mario Freaking Lemieux. Hell a 38 year old broke back Gretzky would pot 60 assists in today's game.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

What exactly are these advances in nutrition that were achieved between 1985 and now?

Better steroids. Easier accessibility for them.
Better masking procedures whenever they do tests (laughable).

Better blood doping methods.

 

[jetsforever]

The playstyle keeps changing so it's pretty hard to say.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Yes.

The floor is 100% a lot higher.

Thing is it's fine to admit it.
I know we have a bunch of old posters here however when you have guys drinking coke between games having smokes after periods they aren't going to be as good as these current athletes.

I fully believe Gretzky would have gotten even better training and would be one of the best if not the best player In today's game. However the margin would be way closer.


Athletes as a whole have become better in the 21st century. I expect the next generation to even be better as a whole.

However the top end talent of Crosby McDavid Ovechkin etc. Will be harder to transcend.

That's my opinion anyways

 

[Beukeboom]

Since the game is now just played by rich people at the high levels you don't see the variety in talent that you once did. The 90's were the last era of regular neighborhood kids becoming pros, which made for amazing personalities compared to the vanilla rich kids of today.

I fear there might be an element of truth to this.

NHL peaked 95-96. Perfect mix of top end talent, overall skill, and rough players/fun personalities.

Also to the people salivating over the quality today, how many players on each team are actually worth the admission? Hand on heart, how many players on other teams do you enjoy watching? Expansion of the league in combo with less guys hitting, fighting and playing with an edge, have made 90% of the players pretty meh. Not saying they aren't talented. but it's not super entertaining to see a soft euro in the forth line get 7 min of ice time per game facing another softie in a 0-0 match up.

 

[habamillions]

Probably have more top end talent now. But the game itself is not better. I liked watching hockey more in the 90's way better game. More exciting. Players tried harder. They cared more. Now its a bunch of spoiled,take all you can get money mentality. Plus way too many penalties. Takes away from the game. Referees should only call the obvious ones. But yes as a whole this era probably has more talented players then in previous eras. But still not on par with a guy like lemieux. Lemieux is way better then the best today.

 

[Nihiliste]

I don’t really think there’s anything wrong with today’s game, and I understand with CTE why it’s become less physical, but I do miss the entertainment factor of the more physical 90s and the hatred between teams. Ever since the league embraced speed and skill in 16/17 I’ve been enjoying the product. The first part of the 10s where we had DPE scoring levels and interference without DPE physicality and hatred was not entertaining.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Since the game is now just played by rich people at the high levels you don't see the variety in talent that you once did. The 90's were the last era of regular neighborhood kids becoming pros, which made for amazing personalities compared to the vanilla rich kids of today.

This is hugely important. It cannot be overstated that the economic elitism of hockey has dramatically outstripped population growth* over the past 40 years. We are gradually pulling from a smaller and smaller pool of talent, which by the very sound logic already expressed upthread, means we are seeing less and less natural talent in the game.

* It also cannot be overstated that the non-immigrant population is shrinking, not growing, in most major hockey countries. And hockey has made only the most negligible inroads to immigrant communities. So effectively the recession of talent is doubled-down.

 

[surixon]

I fear there might be an element of truth to this.

NHL peaked 95-96. Perfect mix of top end talent, overall skill, and rough players/fun personalities.

Also to the people salivating over the quality today, how many players on each team are actually worth the admission? Hand on heart, how many players on other teams do you enjoy watching? Expansion of the league in combo with less guys hitting, fighting and playing with an edge, have made 90% of the players pretty meh. Not saying they aren't talented. but it's not super entertaining to see a soft euro in the forth line get 7 min of ice time per game facing another softie in a 0-0 match up.

I think coaching systems to a large extent have curbed the creativity in today's game. Teams play such regimented systems now whereas in the 90's most games where much more free flowing and allowed for skilled players to exploit things more.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

The 90s were much better than the 80s, so this is actually two separate questions.

 

[Ray Mercer]

The athletes are obviously superior physically with advances in training and nutrition. I disagree however that the league is more entertaining. The 80’s was the pinnacle of goal scoring, fighting, physicality etc. There was far more animosity back then which led to better entertainment. Nowadays sports in general are far softer with everyone on opposing teams friends.