Is the CHL under the Hockey Canada umbrella?

[Ziostilon]

Is the Canadian Hockey League under the Hockey Canada umbrella?

I was always under the impression that it was

Or are they just a seperate entity. partners with Hockey Canada, just like how the NHL and the CHL are partners

Click to read more...

 

[Confucius]

Is the Canadian Hockey League under the Hockey Canada umbrella?

I was always under the impression that it was

Or are they just a seperate entity. partners with Hockey Canada, just like how the NHL and the CHL are partners

CHL is the governing body for junior hockey (whl, ohl, and qmjhl.)
Hockey Canada runs the rest of The amateur hockey in Canada, plus the international events. So they are separate but have to work together.

I didn't know the CHL was a partner of the NHL? in what way are they partners? Did you mean they also work together? I wouldn't think that makes them partners. I would consider them separate entities . Samsung and Apple work with communications companies but I wouldn't call them partners.

 

[Shawa666]

CHL is the governing body for junior hockey (whl, ohl, and qmjhl.)
Hockey Canada runs the rest of The amateur hockey in Canada, plus the international events. So they are separate but have to work together.

I didn't know the CHL was a partner of the NHL? in what way are they partners? Did you mean they also work together? I wouldn't think that makes them partners. I would consider them separate entities . Samsung and Apple work with communications companies but I wouldn't call them partners.

The NHL and the CHL have an agreement between them concerning junior aged players. Basically the NHL pays a minimal development fee to the CHL each time they sign one of it's players. In exchange, they agree that if a player isn't on the main team's roster he has to be returned to it's junior club.

 

[Burke the Legend]

I would assume the NHL also had a say in the deal whereby 19 year old CHL players can't go to the AHL.

 

[Confucius]

I would assume the NHL also had a say in the deal whereby 19 year old CHL players can't go to the AHL.

I would think the NHL would want the 19 year old on their farm team (AHL), I would think the CHL would be the ones demanding the player comes back to the CHL.

 

[CHLPA]

Is the CHL under the Hockey Canada unbrella?

The CHL teams are not members of Hockey Canada, they are partners. The CHL and the NHL are partners. They have a signed agreement in place with one another.

 

[Hoser]

Short answer: no, the CHL is not under Hockey Canada's umbrella, but they do cooperate as best they can.


The long story:

Hockey Canada is the organization under which most amateur hockey in Canada is played, and the organization which sits as the national member from Canada at the International Ice Hockey Federation (IIHF). Hockey Canada was founded in 1968 to run the national teams that played in IIHF tournaments and Olympic Games.

The Canadian Amateur Hockey Association (CAHA) was founded in 1914 to run amateur hockey in Canada. The CAHA had run the national teams prior to 1968: for international tournaments they used to send the Allan Cup (senior mens) champion teams as Canada's representatives. In '62 they stopped doing this and founded a national team program under the leadership of Father David Bauer (former Bruins great Bobby Bauer's little brother), who scouted players from the Canadian Intercollegiate Athletics Union (later Interuniversity, and in 2001 renamed CIS), which fell outside CAHA jurisdiction but was still considered amateur by the IIHF. The CAHA was itself an umbrella organization for the provincial hockey associations, which actually administered the organizational rules and ran the leagues of play. The CAHA's primary purpose was to set national standards for the provincial associations to follow.

All amateur leagues, from toddlers to adults, were run in accordance with the principles and rules agreed to by the provincial associations and enforced by the CAHA overall. That was until 1966, when Bill Hunter (owner of the Edmonton Oil Kings, then a Junior A team) convinced five members of the Saskatchewan Junior Hockey League to form a new Junior league outside the jurisdiction of the CAHA. The CAHA had been allowing the NHL teams to sponsor some of its Junior clubs, and that sponsorship of teams tended to be concentrated in Ontario and Quebec. Faced with competition for the Memorial Cup from these stacked teams from out east Hunter thought his team and some of the others from Saskatchewan would make a better go of it together, rather than playing in the smaller provincial leagues they had played in. (Hunter's Oil Kings were very good; they played in the Memorial Cup every year from '60 to '66, but only won twice in those seven years. He wanted to have the Oil Kings play in the Alberta Senior League rather than Junior, because the Oil Kings dominated their provincial Junior league. It was the CAHA's disallowing this that was the straw that broke the camel's back and convinced him to start his own interprovincial junior league.

Hunter's Canadian Major Junior Hockey League was given approval by the Alberta and Saskatchewan amateur hockey associations and began play in '66, without CAHA approval. The teams in the CMJHL were not allowed to compete for the Memorial Cup and were considered an "outlaw" league in the eyes of the CAHA. Kids who played in the CMJHL were not allowed to play in any CAHA-sanctioned events.

The CMJHL renamed itself the Western Canada Hockey League (WCHL) after the first season, and despite CAHA disapproval continued to play, and added teams from Manitoba.

In 1968 the Western Ontario Junior B Hockey League had approached its governing provincial association, the Ontario Hockey Association, for promotion to "Junior A" status. For many years it had been the best Junior B league in Ontario and wanted its teams to have a chance at playing for the Memorial Cup. The OHA refused, so the Western Ontario Junior B League went rogue and declared itself the Western Ontario Junior A League. They contacted the WCHL and proposed they play each other for their own national Junior A championship, outside the rules of the CAHA.

This rankled the CAHA, and some worry started to set in because these two "outlaw" leagues were getting pretty good. In particular the Flin Flon Bombers, one of the teams from Manitoba that joined the WCHL in 1968, was talked about as arguably the best junior team in the country. It didn't look good on the CAHA that the Bombers played outside their jurisdiction. Bobby Clarke, the Bombers' best player, was arguably the best junior player in the country.

Junior teams from Quebec saw how well the WCHL and WOJAHL were doing outside the auspices of the CAHA and in '69 teams from the Quebec Junior Hockey League, Metropolitan Montreal Junior Hockey League and a team from Ontario's Central Junior A Hockey League (the Cornwall Royals) joined forces to create the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League. The QMJHL stayed within the CAHA's jurisdiction but Junior A hockey was spiralling out of CAHA control pretty quickly.

In 1970 the CAHA relented amidst rumours the Ontario Hockey Association's Junior A league, the top Junior A league for decades, was going to go rogue too. They let the WCHL and WOJAHL back in the fold and they reorganized Junior A level hockey, splitting it in two: "Tier I" and "Tier II". The WCHL and QMJHL were considered "Tier I" leagues alongside the OHA's new Major Jr. A league; the WOJAHL, renamed the Southern Ontario Junior A Hockey League, fell back to "Tier II". The "Tier I" teams would compete for the Memorial Cup.

The OHA Major Jr. A league and QMJHL began a bitter feud in the midst of the '71 playoffs. The Memorial Cup had been the national championship of a very broad playoff structure, where provincial champion Junior A teams played each other in a series of games until western and eastern champions were crowned and faced each other for the Memorial Cup. When the CAHA reorganized Jr. A hockey in 1970 they didn't fundamentally change the format of the Memorial Cup: it was still east vs. west, except the WCHL champs got an automatic bye in while the OHA Major Jr. A and QMJHL champs played each other for the other berth. The OHA champion St. Catharines Black Hawks faced the Quebec Remparts for the Memorial Cup berth in '71 and the series became so acrimonious, so hostile, that the teams wouldn't play at the other's home rink after game four of the series. Game five was held at Maple Leaf Gardens. Games six and seven were scheduled for Quebec City but St. Catharines refused to go back to la Colisée and Quebec wouldn't agree to hold them in Montreal instead. St. Catharines withdrew entirely, and Quebec played Edmonton for the Memorial Cup by default.

For the '71-'72 season the CAHA changed the Memorial Cup into the round-robin tournament we know today (the hosts began getting an automatic bye in the '80s). In '72 the QMJHL petitioned the CAHA to refuse the Montreal Junior Canadiens' continued participation in the OHA, reasoning that they ought to play in Quebec (and the QMJHL was desperate to have a team in Montreal, the biggest city in the country at the time).

A far greater concern began overshadowing this acrimony in 1972 as well, but the full effects wouldn't be felt until 1974: the World Hockey Association. The CAHA had had a working agreement with the NHL to protect their Junior A clubs from having their rosters poached by pro clubs for a long time, going back to the '30s, but the WHA had no such agreement. The WHA began drafting, and signing, Junior players that had been on CAHA-sanctioned clubs without any compensation to the CAHA or to the individual clubs themselves. It got especially bad in '74, when the WHA began going after "underaged" (18-year-old) players in an effort to pre-empt the NHL from getting them. The WHA wasn't paying the Major Junior clubs for drafting players, it wasn't paying the CAHA, and the NHL wanted in on the "underaged" players too. The CAHA crafted an agreement with the NHL which allowed them to draft 18 and 19-year-olds and this ended up decimating the rosters of the Major Junior clubs.

In 1974 the OHA Major Junior A league decided to distance itself from the OHA, becoming the Ontario Major Junior Hockey League. The OMJHL was still nominally under control of the OHA but it had more independence; it crafted its own bylaws, it had its own commissioner, etc.

In 1975 the OMJHL, QMJHL and WCHL decided to create an overarching governing body for themselves: the Canadian Major Junior Hockey League (yes, the exact same name as Bill Hunter's original western league in '66). The CMJHL took over the negotiations with the NHL and WHA for draft pick compensation from the CAHA.

In 1980 the CMJHL split from the CAHA completely, reducing their relationship with the CAHA and its constituent provincial associations to a mere "affiliation". The CMJHL took complete control over "Tier I Junior A" hockey nationwide and changed it to "Major Junior" as we know it today. The CMJHL shortened its named to CHL in 1986. (The WCHL shortened its name to WHL in 1978, after it had grown to include teams in Seattle; Portland, Oregon and Billings, Montana. The OMJHL became OHL in 1980.) "Tier II Junior A" reverted to just "Junior A", and remained under CAHA control.

Hockey Canada had not only been created to sort out the national teams but was in fact meant to oversee all hockey in Canada: amateur, professional, collegiate. Everything. But the CAHA still had the actual de facto jurisdiction over the amateur game. Over the years the CAHA and Hockey Canada squabbled a bit and in 1994 Hockey Canada and the CAHA merged. By this time the CAHA had become very ineffectual and Hockey Canada had become embroiled in the scandal surrounding Alan Eagleson. (Eagle had been embezzling proceeds from the international tournaments he helped organize on Hockey Canada's behalf...) Hockey Canada is now effectively what the CAHA was pre-1968: it governs the amateur game from Junior A down and the Senior leagues, but is de facto powerless over the CHL and Major Junior Hockey. The CHL is considered a "partner" organization by Hockey Canada; they work together on committees and the like, but Hockey Canada doesn't have much say about how the CHL does business. In much the same way Hockey Canada "partners" with the NHL—NHL players are now allowed to play on the national teams, after all—but it has no jurisdiction over the NHL itself. This is also true of CIS.

 

[Ziostilon]

Hoser, Thank You for the writeup
that was very informative

 

[BadgerBruce]

Thanks, Hoser. Excellent work.

Here's a small part of a post I made some time ago, which you can find here: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1519261&page=2


"But Branch is also symbolic of a larger issue which is rarely talked about. The following is NOT some sort of conspiracy theory – as I said, Branch is SYMBOLIC of an issue, not “the†issue. Let me explain.

Branch was an executive vice-president in the CAHA until 1979, when he became the Commissioner of the now-OHL. That same year, 1979, Murray Costello assumed the reins of the CAHA. Branch became President of the CMJHL (forerunner of the CHL), the integrated QMJHL/WHL/ OHL major junior hockey body, in 1996, just two years after the merger between Hockey Canada, the CAHA, and the CMJHL. Prior to this tripartite merger, Canada’s major junior hockey leagues operated completely outside of CAHA jurisdiction.*

The obvious question is “why the change of heart by the three major junior entities?â€

The answer is buried in the Hockey Canada fine print: the merger of the three entitites (HC, CAHA, CMJHL) in 1994 gave the CJHL “full member partner†status within the new Hockey Canada. Everybody else is simply a Hockey Canada “affiliate.†And ever since, the CHL (as it is now named) has exerted a level of control over Hockey Canada and youth hockey that is, to my mind, frightening. This control also goes a long way to explain the “anti-education†stance of Hockey Canada over the last two decades."
_________________________________

Also, while the CHL is not governed by Hockey Canada, players in the league are required to be individual members of their applicable IIHF national governing body (Hockey Canada, USA Hockey, etc). It's a convoluted system -- the player based in Canada is a member of HC just like a 5 year old tyke in the Yukon, but his major junior team is affiliated solely with the CHL, which is itself a "member PARTNER" of HC and not governed by that body. I do know that international transfers do need to go through Hockey Canada but this is a IIHF requirement and amounts to a simple rubber stamp.

 

[Hoser]

Yeah, it's a pretty convoluted situation especially when compared to the European hockey associations. Over there ALL organized hockey is run by the associations, from the top-level pro leagues all the way down.

Really, when you get right down to it, the NHL has pretty much de facto control over organized hockey in North America. The NHL is much more powerful than Hockey Canada. That this is even possible must seem absolutely insane to many Europeans, where even their top-level pro leagues are run under the auspices of the national associations.

A lot of why Hockey Canada exists is to just deal with the IIHF; the way the IIHF is set up—the very European way in which it is organized—demands that Canada's representation be a national governing body. It exercises no real power over the pro leagues (NHL, AHL, ECHL) nor the CHL, which exists almost solely to provide the pro leagues with talent.

 

[Inkling]

Yeah, it's a pretty convoluted situation especially when compared to the European hockey associations. Over there ALL organized hockey is run by the associations, from the top-level pro leagues all the way down.

Really, when you get right down to it, the NHL has pretty much de facto control over organized hockey in North America. The NHL is much more powerful than Hockey Canada. That this is even possible must seem absolutely insane to many Europeans, where even their top-level pro leagues are run under the auspices of the national associations.

A lot of why Hockey Canada exists is to just deal with the IIHF; the way the IIHF is set up—the very European way in which it is organized—demands that Canada's representation be a national governing body. It exercises no real power over the pro leagues (NHL, AHL, ECHL) nor the CHL, which exists almost solely to provide the pro leagues with talent.

I stand to be corrected, but I don't think the KHL is under the Russian hockey federation and IIHF, like the NHL it is just a partner. It's not like football/soccer where everything is under FIFA except for some scattered outlaw leagues.

 

[Hoser]

As far as I know the KHL is more at arms-length than the old Russian league was, but the Russian hockey federation still has a lot of say. The Russian hockey federation has let the KHL crown a Russian champion, but only by agreement, and I believe the agreement is renewed every few years.

The KHL certainly requires the blessing of the Russian, Belorussian, Ukrainian, etc. federations when it comes to the KHL's rules about which nationalities are considered 'foreign' players and which are not, how many 'foreign' players are allowed per team, etc.

EDIT: I know for sure that the day-to-day operations of the Swedish Hockey League and Finnish Liiga are independent of their respective hockey associations but the leagues themselves still fall under their jurisdiction. Playing rules are in accordance with association rules, discipline is meted out by the association not the league, etc.

 

[BadgerBruce]

Keep in mind that the MHL, which is basically the Russian equivalent of the CHL and the highest level of amateur hockey,, is governed by the Tretiak-led Russian Ice Hockey Federation. I'm not aware of any national governing body holding genuine authority over professional leagues, including the KHL and the NHL.

The Russian junior league (MHL) is relatively new(ish), perhaps 6-7 years old, but most of the 22 teams are directly sponsored by KHL teams (just as Canadian junior teams were until 1968) and serve the same basic player development purpose for professional teams. They function under the overarching auspices of the Russian Ice Hockey Federation.

 

[Shawa666]

Keep in mind that the MHL, which is basically the Russian equivalent of the CHL and the highest level of amateur hockey,, is governed by the Tretiak-led Russian Ice Hockey Federation. I'm not aware of any national governing body holding genuine authority over professional leagues, including the KHL and the NHL.

The Russian junior league (MHL) is relatively new(ish), perhaps 6-7 years old, but most of the 22 teams are directly sponsored by KHL teams (just as Canadian junior teams were until 1968) and serve the same basic player development purpose for professional teams. They function under the overarching auspices of the Russian Ice Hockey Federation.

Well, FIFA has a deathgrip on soccer.

 

[Kimota]

I always wonder why it's always the same guys running the CHL.

 

[jason2020]

I would think the NHL would want the 19 year old on their farm team (AHL), I would think the CHL would be the ones demanding the player comes back to the CHL.

I don't think many teams would want there prospects playing in the Ahl with limited minutes and limited roles.

 

[Confucius]

I don't think many teams would want there prospects playing in the Ahl with limited minutes and limited roles.

Take Nylander as an example, he plays in the AHL for the Marlies. The Leafs own the Marlies they can do exactly what they want with him. After all it's about development of the player not so much winning. If he played in the OHL or Sweden you are correct the Leafs would have no control how he is used.

I'd imagine if the NHL team determined he wouldn't play much in the AHL they would be all for just leaving him in the jr leagues. I can't imagine a scenario where a jr team would say, you drafted one of our guys we don't want him now.

 

[BadgerBruce]

I don't think many teams would want there prospects playing in the Ahl with limited minutes and limited roles.

Generally speaking, you are correct. However, keep in mind that any player in the world who is drafted into the NHL and is not a CHL player at that time is free to play professionally. It's only the CHL players who are bound by the NHL - CHL agreement. Given the extraordinarily high percentage of Canadian players in the CHL, one could easily argue that the agreement specifically targets Canadians. There is no similar agreement between the NHL and other junior leagues. As an aside, Hockey Canada is not a signatory to the NHL - CHL agreement.

Further, prior to the first NHL expansion in 1967, the sponsorship system gave NHL teams the ability to groom their own prospects on junior teams they owned. In essence, Canadian Junior Hockey was "the minors" -- if the same system existed today, Dylan Strome would be playing for an Arizona Coyotes owned and staffed junior team, a team with a vested interest in moving him up the company ladder.

Anyway, I shouldn't stray too far off topic here ...the point is that Hockey Canada has no role.