Is Rob Blake the Problem?

[riznat]

This was always my theory that AEG probably wanted Sutter out, but Lombardi was too proud and loyal to let him go so AEG canned them both. I have no way to prove this, but that's my speculation. I would've given Lombardi another chance if he got rid of Sutter.

As for the question of Blake, I think he's done okay. I don't blame him for thinking they could compete again after getting rid of Sutter and they looked quite good their first season under Stevens, but man that Vegas series should've been a wakeup call that the team needed a shakeup. The good news is that it has been recognized and the drafting has been spectacular the past 3 years. I'm willing to be patient for this team, but man it is not pretty to watch at the moment.

To be fair, the Vegas series proved for the millionth time that we lacked goal scoring, so he signed Kovalchuk, so there was a change, maybe not a shakeup though.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

I can agree with many posts on the thread and I am in a place where it's too hard to judge, without knowing more of what's really going on. I do not just think it was just Blake that was "we are contenders" and that as GM, there are still people above you. I think it was more of an upper management mantra and they went out and signed Kovalchuk, to help bring in some offense. Kovy had like 14 pts his first 15 games and then Stevens was fired. We know the rest - WD was brought in and the tank ensued...it did not help that BOTH Quick and Campbell went down with injuries. Once around Christmas, the plan officially changed to re-tooling / rebuilding. Since then, Muzzin was traded and picks were acquired.

What bugs me some - is that at the media exit interview last year, Blake said "we have to be better at center 2"....this was the one position he mentioned by name. The biggest weakness.
So he does nothing about it. That bugs me. They knew Carter was not the answer and that Kempe was probably not, either. I think he should have acquired / signed someone for that slot.
But I guess it's catch 22, as he would have to give up futures, or salary. Not sure who was on the market. Without knowing the actual plan, which might ONLY be, move veterans, acquire
picks and prospects...if that's it, then fine....AND honestly, whoever he could have possibly got for 2nd center, would be a bridge player.

So fast forward to an interview a week or 2 ago - again, he says that "you're not going to see that type of deal this year...maybe next year"....he was referring to, acquiring actual help now.
This kind of bugs me, as an astute GM, strikes at any moment and gets a player that can help now and future..and would be willing to part with some futures. Not a #1 pick. Not a Vilardi
or a Turcotte...but with no REAL NHL players in the 22-27 year old range, you need those players, period. (Kempe, Walker, Roy, Petersen are the only ones in that group, I think)
The prospect list is deep and not all of them wil play for the Kings.

The Lombardi Kings took the biggest step, when he acquired players in the 24-28 range: Stoll, Greene, Willaims, Richards, Carter....
Not easy to do and cost a Visnovsky, a Schenn, Simmonds...Johnson +#1....he struck gold with all.....Blake is going to have to start doing
this the next 2-3 years. I would wait and see what he does this offseason. I am still wondering what Hextall is actually doing?

I would LOVE to see at least 1 college free agent signed next month. Get Hults signed, get Fagemo and Moverare back over. Sign King Arthur.
Sign Turcotte if he wants to. I want to see him get aggressive somewhere. Perhaps get a euro player from a team in a TT or Amart deal...the type of prospect that can possibly play next year.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

To answer the question, I do not believe Blake is the problem. Can he build a Cup contending team? Don't know. We aren't there yet. We are dismantling and rebuilding and I think he's doing okay with that so far. A lot of that just depends on whether recent draft picks develop as we hope or do they go the way of Lauri Tukonen instead.

man, this thread turned dark quickly.

 

[cyclones22]

What bugs me some - is that at the media exit interview last year, Blake said "we have to be better at center 2"....this was the one position he mentioned by name. The biggest weakness.
So he does nothing about it. That bugs me. They knew Carter was not the answer and that Kempe was probably not, either. I think he should have acquired / signed someone for that slot.
But I guess it's catch 22, as he would have to give up futures, or salary. Not sure who was on the market. Without knowing the actual plan, which might ONLY be, move veterans, acquire
picks and prospects...if that's it, then fine....AND honestly, whoever he could have possibly got for 2nd center, would be a bridge player.

So fast forward to an interview a week or 2 ago - again, he says that "you're not going to see that type of deal this year...maybe next year"....he was referring to, acquiring actual help now.
This kind of bugs me, as an astute GM, strikes at any moment and gets a player that can help now and future..and would be willing to part with some futures. Not a #1 pick. Not a Vilardi
or a Turcotte...but with no REAL NHL players in the 22-27 year old range, you need those players, period. (Kempe, Walker, Roy, Petersen are the only ones in that group, I think)
The prospect list is deep and not all of them wil play for the Kings.

Another thing Luc mentioned was that they were not in a position to sign an impact UFA for a few years. But also that if they were going to pull the trigger on a trade for anyone, that player had to be 25 years old or younger. The Muzzin return as an example. There was no way they were going to get a 25 year old or younger second line C without giving up the farm or a top pairing defender for that matter. Who even fits that description who might be even available? Now, I saw the list of current prospects (prior to last draft) and what boxes they fit into etc, and before drafting Turcotte, they ID'd that they needed at least 1 more top 6 center. That they already had 1 in Vilardi. I think they have another in Turcotte. And hell, they could draft another this Summer, but they also know they need a top pair defender as well. I guess my point is that they are aware of these needs, but it takes 2 to tango to make a deal and it's rare to have these players be available in that age group. If they are, it means they need to overpay for one if a scenario occurs where a player wants out of their current situation and the Kings can pounce. It may yet happen, but at least they're assembling enough top prospects to where a trade like that may be possible without giving up all of the top prospects in the pipeline.

 

[sinister6000]

I'd like to see him aquire some bigger defense men. Plus some power forwards to with the skilled players he drafted. The Kings could use a tough guy to play on the 4th line also.

 

[sinister6000]

St Louis won the cup with a team that was built like the cup winning Kings teams.

 

[Bandit]

St Louis won the cup with a team that was built like the cup winning Kings teams.

Of course they did. If you can get a team to play 2012-2014 LA Kings hockey they are going to be very successful, I don't care what year it is. Have all the speed and skill you want, but if the other team is going to truck you, you're screwed.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The Blues also had a stacked blueline, three productive lines, and they’re the best team in the Western Conference this season, they’re a deep team. The Kings have zero team depth up and down the lineup, and that’s something they’ve been missing for the past six seasons.

 

[sinister6000]

Everyone was talking about how slow the Kings when they was wining. But it didn't matter, because they frustrated, and wore teams down with their size, puck possesion, depth down the middle, and great defense.

 

[kilowatt]

I’ve been thinking an awful lot about the “Kovalchuk Disaster” and I have to wonder... whose fault is it really? Kovalchuk is playing very well for Montreal. Is it because he has something to prove now? If the Kings couldn’t even get the bare minimum out of him - three different coaches - is that on Blake? Why is Kovalchuk thriving? Is it Blake’s fault that he didn’t excel here?

 

[DryIslandBartender]

Kings culture is a disaster.

Zero chemistry and not a lot of compete. Blake is the gm and is responsible for that, three coaches hired by him and numerous staff changes to try and help the team alter the style. It’s easy to collect picks and pickup a few prospects.

The real work is the development and building a winning culture. The main problem I have with Blake is there’s no vision on what type of team he wants to build, he just gives canned answers.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Kings culture is a disaster.

Zero chemistry and not a lot of compete. Blake is the gm and is responsible for that, three coaches hired by him and numerous staff changes to try and help the team alter the style. It’s easy to collect picks and pickup a few prospects.

The real work is the development and building a winning culture. The main problem I have with Blake is there’s no vision on what type of team he wants to build, he just gives canned answers.

So explain to me why the team was missing the playoffs and getting eliminated so easily before the management change. Also explain why if keeping picks and acquiring prospects is so easy, why was previous management incapable of doing such an easy thing?

You say he has no vision, despite the fact that they’re slowly getting younger and have stated that the team is transitioning to go in a younger direction. The only canned answers I’m seeing are your criticisms of Blake. It seems like facts don’t seem to register with you.

 

[Telos]

I am definitely a biased fan that doesn't like Blake for 2001, but I don't hate him for all he's done for the franchise as a whole. My vote is that it is too early to tell. The rebuild is underway, we are going the right direction, and I don't see any massive mistakes, yet.

Lombardi definitely needed to go, and I am a huge Lombardi supporter/fan. Lombardi inherited some good pieces, installed that right system and staff, and had a solid vision that he was able to bring to fruition. All that being said, he couldn't keep up with everything as it evolved. He started handing out reward contracts, got too attached to his guys, and was making some pretty desperate moves to keep the window open longer instead of realizing that it was closed. If he played his cards better, he could have re-tooled the team and re-opened the window much sooner, but he panicked and mortgaged the future to try to win a round or two and it led us to the very bottom.

Not a fan of Blake, but he has shown that he is at least capable to guide the team into and probably through a rebuild. How he conducts himself after that remains to be seen, but there is little incentive to axe him and change GMs at this point.

 

[kilowatt]

I think we have the right guys coming up. I just honestly think the Kings have lacked talented players. Kopitar is still effective. Kempe is probably a second line guy. Iafallo and Toffoli are decent complementary players. But for the past four years, our good players have been declining, and we haven't really added anyone to help. If Iafallo was on a line with Kopitar and, say, Kyle Connor, then Iafallo would be a much better player. Similarly, if Kempe and Toffoli were being centered by a guy like Sean Couturier, they'd be producing as well. But for a long time now, we've been missing two or three crucial pieces in our top six. Jeff Carter and Dustin Brown got older, lost several steps, and we haven't replaced them at all. That's the bottom line.

But I think we have some really talented players coming up that can contribute in the ways that we need them to.

"I want to be that guy," Fagemo said. "I want the coaches to rely on me to produce. I want to create scoring chances and I want to score goals. It's a lot of fun and I like it."

Stutzle - Kopitar - Kaliyev
Fagemo - Turcotte - Vilardi
Kempe - Thomas - Kupari
Grundstrom - Anderson-Dolan - Iafallo

Bjornfot - Doughty
Clague - Walker
Anderson - Roy

Peterson
Quick

Looking at a roster like this, guys like Amadio, Lizotte, and Wagner just don't make the cut.

Also, for what it's worth, Scott Wheeler's been releasing his 2020 Prospect Pool rankings and the Kings are in the top two.

And for the love of god, subscribe to The Athletic. It's a really great publication. I have a 40% off referral code if anyone wants to use it (here, in which I get $25) or there are a ton of other sites that have their own referral codes. Either way, I highly recommend it.

 

[tigermask48]

Is he THE problem? I dont think so. Do I think another GM could do better? Probably.

It might be a weak reason, but this thought is why I want him gone and voted as such.

I just don't see a reason for him to stay after the coaching fiasco last year, the way Kovy was handled, and his general lack of anything in the off season. Sure he's stockpiled assets in draft picks and college FA, but that should be a given in a rebuild.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

For all those yearning/clamoring for a "vision" of the team, of what Blake wants etc,

You should go read Scotty Bowman's book by Ken Dryden, repeated theme in there was Scotty didn't have a vision, he didn't have a theme, he coached with what he had throughout his career.

I don't think as a GM, you want to pigeon hole yourself by saying, I want XXXX type of team, so I want XXXXX type of players, you will absolutely miss out on some solid players that way. Instead, you use your assets to get the best collection of players, and then figure out what you have, and go from there.

 

[KingsFan7824]

If other 32 year olds with 5 years left on their contracts were getting traded around the league, and especially for real younger assets, I'd blame Blake all day for not getting rid of Carter in 2017. Since that doesn't happen anywhere, I don't hold it against him.

None of the players he's responsible for drafting have made any impact on the team yet. It's the 1st year of pro hockey for the 2017 class, so all of that is up in the air, but most young players need time to develop.

17-18 had the Carter injury, so you didn't know what the team was. He didn't go all in at the deadline.

Wanted Pacioretty, but desperately settled for Kovalchuk. I don't care about how it all got handled. Nothing about it was working. When Kovalchuk got the time he needs, the team was still terrible. I wish they could send more vets home for a month, but, Kovalchuk meant nothing to the organization, and life ain't fair. I'm glad he just went for it. Get rid of him, and call it a day. Not the Kovalchuk wasn't professional the whole way through. No ill will toward him, I thought he was still probably the most talented player on the roster on his last day as a King, I just can't care.

Doughty's contract, if he wanted to stay, was baked into the cake. Quick, Brown, and Kopitar all got their Cup contracts. Doughty was unperceptive enough to sign here, so I don't care how unhappy he is. He could've walked away, but no.

Desperately fired a coach few people seemed to want as the coach anyway. We were all sick of a soft ass Pearson, but now we care. Forced to trade Muzzin by circumstance, but that's how most teams rebuild anyway. And here we are.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Also, for what it's worth, Scott Wheeler's been releasing his 2020 Prospect Pool rankings and the Kings are in the top two.

[/I]

It's out now, Kings are #1:

"There were some extremely challenging decisions throughout the authoring of this series. I have flip-flopped on whether the Senators’ pool should have been a spot or two higher or whether the Blackhawks’ pool should have been a rung or two lower. That’s the nature of this — of evaluating teenagers. It’s fluid. They can plateau as quickly as they can climb.

But the Kings were always going to be No. 1. There’s no hesitation with this decision. It’s clearcut."

 

[fsanford]

I look at Wilson in SJ and he put them in the same situation as what Blake was handed. You cannot fall in love with players so much that you end up giving legacy deals to guys that have no business getting them. Teams need to re-tool

Blake screwed up the Kovy signing.

Doughty and Kopitar maybe trade one vs signing both.



Blake has restocked the shelves so much so when the time comes where Kings are back in the playoffs they have the assets to go for it.

Lombardi did the same thing collected assets so when it was time to go for it he could.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

For all those yearning/clamoring for a "vision" of the team, of what Blake wants etc,

You should go read Scotty Bowman's book by Ken Dryden, repeated theme in there was Scotty didn't have a vision, he didn't have a theme, he coached with what he had throughout his career.

I don't think as a GM, you want to pigeon hole yourself by saying, I want XXXX type of team, so I want XXXXX type of players, you will absolutely miss out on some solid players that way. Instead, you use your assets to get the best collection of players, and then figure out what you have, and go from there.

Scotty was coach though, not GM. Coach HAS to work with what he's given even if he has some sort of relationship with the GM. And Scotty's 'plan' was very clear once that team was on the ice. I'm not sure either Blake or TMac's is, whether that's a coaching or personnel issue.

I agree on GM it's about BPA and molding around that to a degree, but we haven't even heard him articulate what kind of team the Kings are or will become other than 'younger and faster.' DL made it apparent very quickly with Visnovsky for Greene and Stoll. "Younger and faster" isn't a vision, it's a plan that will happen by default. I guess at this year's draft we heard the 'character' word a lot--which is very revealing imo--so that's a start.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Scotty was coach though, not GM. Coach HAS to work with what he's given even if he has some sort of relationship with the GM. And Scotty's 'plan' was very clear once that team was on the ice. I'm not sure either Blake or TMac's is, whether that's a coaching or personnel issue.

I agree on GM it's about BPA and molding around that to a degree, but we haven't even heard him articulate what kind of team the Kings are or will become other than 'younger and faster.' DL made it apparent very quickly with Visnovsky for Greene and Stoll. "Younger and faster" isn't a vision, it's a plan that will happen by default. I guess at this year's draft we heard the 'character' word a lot--which is very revealing imo--so that's a start.

Scotty was a coach yes, but he was molded by the best of the best, plus his inate ability for it.

Here's the catch 22 Blake is going to be put in though, we want a young, fast, creative team, and during the draft, the BPA available, is young, fast, straight up and down, say Dustin Brown in his prime, does he take that player, or does he take a lesser player because he fits better? Arguments to both, but you pigeon hole yourself I feel, if you say, we want XXXXX this team, so we go and draft XXXXX players, think Teubert, Forbort, etc.

 

[Lt Dan]

If other 32 year olds with 5 years left on their contracts were getting traded around the league, and especially for real younger assets, I'd blame Blake all day for not getting rid of Carter in 2017. Since that doesn't happen anywhere, I don't hold it against him.

None of the players he's responsible for drafting have made any impact on the team yet. It's the 1st year of pro hockey for the 2017 class, so all of that is up in the air, but most young players need time to develop.

17-18 had the Carter injury, so you didn't know what the team was. He didn't go all in at the deadline.

Wanted Pacioretty, but desperately settled for Kovalchuk. I don't care about how it all got handled. Nothing about it was working. When Kovalchuk got the time he needs, the team was still terrible. I wish they could send more vets home for a month, but, Kovalchuk meant nothing to the organization, and life ain't fair. I'm glad he just went for it. Get rid of him, and call it a day. Not the Kovalchuk wasn't professional the whole way through. No ill will toward him, I thought he was still probably the most talented player on the roster on his last day as a King, I just can't care.

Doughty's contract, if he wanted to stay, was baked into the cake. Quick, Brown, and Kopitar all got their Cup contracts. Doughty was unperceptive enough to sign here, so I don't care how unhappy he is. He could've walked away, but no.

Desperately fired a coach few people seemed to want as the coach anyway. We were all sick of a soft ass Pearson, but now we care. Forced to trade Muzzin by circumstance, but that's how most teams rebuild anyway. And here we are.

Well said.

I don't think that we can fault Blake for thinking the team was competing. I think that we all thought the team was in the same place as he did when he took over.
The Stevens firing and Willie D hiring was a disaster.
The Muzzin trade looks good.
The Pearson trade , Pearson was slow and ineffective iwth the leg. The pick did lead to Fagemo.


I think we are largely paying for the sins of trying to win a third cup, which I place more on ownership than DL.

I think we can really know Rob's legacy in 2-3 more years

 

[cyclones22]

Wheeler's rankings from The Athletic article ranking the Kings #1 overall:

Not only do the Kings have four of the better prospects in hockey, they also have a depth of legitimate prospects that approaches the end of the teens and is rivalled only by maybe one or two other teams, as well as the best depth at centre outside of the NHL. They were going to be No. 1 even before the return of Gabe Vilardi from a career-threatening back injury and they remain No. 1 even after Rasmus Kupari lost the remainder of this season to knee surgery.

 

[tbrown33]

Wheeler's rankings from The Athletic article ranking the Kings #1 overall:

Not only do the Kings have four of the better prospects in hockey, they also have a depth of legitimate prospects that approaches the end of the teens and is rivalled only by maybe one or two other teams, as well as the best depth at centre outside of the NHL. They were going to be No. 1 even before the return of Gabe Vilardi from a career-threatening back injury and they remain No. 1 even after Rasmus Kupari lost the remainder of this season to knee surgery.

Reading this article was just a great start to my morning.

And to think...this prospect pool is about to get even better with what we'll accrue at the trade deadline and another top 5 pick, potentially Lafreniere, Stutzle, or Byfield. I am very excited.

 

[BigKing]

Wheeler's rankings from The Athletic article ranking the Kings #1 overall:

Not only do the Kings have four of the better prospects in hockey, they also have a depth of legitimate prospects that approaches the end of the teens and is rivalled only by maybe one or two other teams, as well as the best depth at centre outside of the NHL. They were going to be No. 1 even before the return of Gabe Vilardi from a career-threatening back injury and they remain No. 1 even after Rasmus Kupari lost the remainder of this season to knee surgery.

It is a little concerning that five of the Top 10 prospects are all from the last draft. Drop Spence and it is four out of the Top 7 and his 7th is a guy that many on here are pumping as a possible top-pairing defenseman.

Point being that it would be a draft for the ages if they pulled four Top 6/Top 4 NHL players. Maybe it could be, but there seems to be some recency bias on here. It also is kind of damning to the rest of the pool to have so many just-drafted players jump them, although Vilardi is probably not eligible for this list if he didn't have the injuries since he'd be in the NHL.

It's just a reminder that Teubert and Hickey were still being listed in the Top 5 of Kings prospects while the Kings were being ranked as a Top 5 overall prospect pool. Outside of completely shitting the bed immediately after being drafted, most highly touted prospects retain the hype this close to their draft seasons. In the case of this list, it almost seems like you are disrespected a bit if you aren't lighting up a pro league but you get way more juice if you haven't shown weaknesses yet at the pro level.

That said, it is great to have hope where we haven't had any for a long time (Paul LaDue is untouchable!). I really like Vilardi but Kaliyev seems like the only legit "holy shit!" guy on there as he has that 35-40 goal potential but he also carries more risk. Not to slight Turcotte, but there isn't that really special Kopitar/Doughty talent yet. Hopefully the Kings are "rewarded" for this horrible season like Lombardi was in 2008. Lafreniere could give them that real special player that the current prospect depth can fall behind because there are surely busts/not-as-good-as-hoped on this list.