Is Mark Recchi a First-Ballot HOFer?

[Ogopogo*]

Recchi had 123 points with the Flyers in '92, I believe. He was dominant that year.

Keep in mind he finished 10th in scoring that year. A good season but the 123 points is misleading to those who follow the modern NHL.

 

[Ogopogo*]

I know it seems that I don't like Recchi but that would be false. I do like Recchi a lot, I just believe the bar for the HOF is too low and Recchi should be under it.

I love my dad too but I don't think he should be in the hall either.

 

[Iain Fyffe]

Keep in mind he finished 10th in scoring that year. A good season but the 123 points is misleading to those who follow the modern NHL.

This is worth bearing in mind. Pierre Turgeon had 132 that year, and most people laugh when he's mentioned in Hall of Fame discussions.

 

[seventieslord]

That was only Recchi's 5th-best season, though. 1991, 1992, 1994 and 2000 were all more impressive when league context is considered. If you have 123 points and finish 10th in scoring in your 5th-best season.... that's awesome.

Recchi gets so little respect for being a top-5 scorer three times. Some people here talk about him like he did something dozens of other wingers since expansion have done. That is just not the case. See my post from earlier on:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=28281345&postcount=77

Turgeon (who has become very underrated) had his best season in 1993.

Basically Turgeon's best season was about as impressive as Recchi's 4th-best in 1992. And Turgeon was an awesome offensive player. Also, Recchi had far more than Turgeon for intangibles. people can laugh at Turgeon as a HHOF candidate, but don't claim that Recchi is really like him.

 

[Sens Rule]

Gino Odjick scored 20 goals once, that is hardly the standard a HOFer should be measured by. Cups are a team accomplishment so that is not a mark of an HOFer and 1,500 points can be had by playing forever.

You have shown nothing that would prove your case.

Recchi is another good player that played for a long time but really isn't one of the game's all time greats. He is like Modano or Sundin - he will likely get in because of the low bar we have for the HOF but he is certainly not in the class of a Bossy, Lafleur, Gretzky or Beliveau.

And if the Hall of Fame includes only players that are the equals of the above four players it would include only about 30 or 40 players at most. 4 or 5 players a decade at most.

 

[Iain Fyffe]

Turgeon (who has become very underrated) had his best season in 1993.

Basically Turgeon's best season was about as impressive as Recchi's 4th-best in 1992. And Turgeon was an awesome offensive player.

I'm glad to see someone say this. Turgeon seems to take a lot of flack, but he was a gifted player. When I heard the Habs traded him because they had "too many centres" for an aging Shayne Corson I believe I threw something at the television. No disrespect to Corson, of course, but come on.

 

[sr edler]

Recchi is another good player that played for a long time but really isn't one of the game's all time greats. He is like Modano or Sundin

only modano and sundin were better, pretty easily too, you build teams around players like modano and sundin [or with sundin toronto at least tried to build a team?]

no one ever tried to build a team around mark recchi and there is probably a reason for that

recchi scored more in a few seasons when every good player who didn't care much about defense scored a 100 but modano and sundin were centers and captains for how many years with far better intangibles, defensively and physically

 

[Iain Fyffe]

recchi scored more in a few seasons when every good player who didn't care much about defense scored a 100

Do you mean like 1999/2000, when he was third in the NHL with 91 points (leading the league in assists) in a season where no one scored 100?

It's not like he played in the early 80s. 1993 was the only season of his career where there were really large numbers of 100-point men.

Modano's career high is 93 points, which he first achieved in, you guessed it, 1993. He and Recchi are exact contemporaries. You can't say that Recchi's totals are inflated without saying the same thing about Modano.

Sundin is also an exact contemporary. His best point production was 114, which he achieved in (surprise!) 1993.

 

[Dangler99*]

Hall of famer? Yes
First Ballot? No.

 

[sr edler]

Modano's career high is 93 points

stats

modano - 9 30 goals seasons
recchi - 7 30 goals seasons

see i can do it too

but modano was easily better than recchi, he was ppg in the playoffs for the stars in the dead puck era and the best and most important player on a cup winner and so much more responsible defensively it's not even funny

recchi was never one of the best, it is that simple, and you could see that with your eyes

he was never on any canadian teams for best on best international tournaments, that was owen nolan

 

[seventieslord]

stats

modano - 9 30 goals seasons
recchi - 7 30 goals seasons

see i can do it too

but modano was easily better than recchi, he was ppg in the playoffs for the stars in the dead puck era and the best and most important player on a cup winner and so much more responsible defensively it's not even funny

recchi was never one of the best, it is that simple, and you could see that with your eyes

he was never on any canadian teams for best on best international tournaments, that was owen nolan

Modano is a fine player and an easy HHOFer… Recchi is not as good, nor does he have to be, to get in the hall.

 

[Crosbyfan]

That is strange that in a 22 year career he only nabbed one 2nd team all-star in 1992. However, he was at the difficult right wing position which at one point was equal to center in top end talent during Recchi's career. I do wonder a bit how in 1991 and 1994 he wasn't a 2nd teamer, but oh well.

His play in the Cup final this year definitely made you think he could play again. However, at 43 an 82 game grind is tough. But that end to end rush he made in the second period of Game 7 just elicited memories of a young Recchi. I so wish he would have scored there

That really would have been the icing on the cake of a great Finals at 43 years old and Assistant Captain of the team.

It certainly would have been in the highlight reels if he could have snuck that in after that rush.

 

[Leaf Lander]

he will get in but odds are he will have to wait a few yrs

 

[Leaf Lander]

That was only Recchi's 5th-best season, though. 1991, 1992, 1994 and 2000 were all more impressive when league context is considered. If you have 123 points and finish 10th in scoring in your 5th-best season.... that's awesome.

Recchi gets so little respect for being a top-5 scorer three times. Some people here talk about him like he did something dozens of other wingers since expansion have done. That is just not the case. See my post from earlier on:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=28281345&postcount=77


Turgeon (who has become very underrated) had his best season in 1993.

Basically Turgeon's best season was about as impressive as Recchi's 4th-best in 1992. And Turgeon was an awesome offensive player. Also, Recchi had far more than Turgeon for intangibles. people can laugh at Turgeon as a HHOF candidate, but don't claim that Recchi is really like him.

recchi was a winner and turgeon wasn't because turgeon's game was forever changed when dale hunter mugged him in the playoffs

 

[seventieslord]

recchi was a winner and turgeon wasn't because turgeon's game was forever changed when dale hunter mugged him in the playoffs

Turgeon had already "earned" the Tin Man reputation even before 1993, but yes, I'm sure the Hunter incident had an impact on his style of play and ultimately his scoring totals and HHOF status.

 

[Iain Fyffe]

modano - 9 30 goals seasons
recchi - 7 30 goals seasons

see i can do it too

This assumes that one example is equivalent in value to another, and that the fact that you can come up with one example means you can come up with more.

Besides, I was refuting a specific claim of yours, that Recchi's point totals are not as impressive as they seem since he put them up at a time when such things were commonplace. But this argument hurts Modano as much as it does Recchi, since they were contemporaries.

Do you stand by that statement now?

 

[sr edler]

This assumes that one example is equivalent in value to another, and that the fact that you can come up with one example means you can come up with more.

Besides, I was refuting a specific claim of yours, that Recchi's point totals are not as impressive as they seem since he put them up at a time when such things were commonplace. But this argument hurts Modano as much as it does Recchi, since they were contemporaries.

Do you stand by that statement now?

i stand by the statement that modano and sundin were better

recchi was very good but he was never one of the best

 

[mja]

i stand by the statement that modano and sundin were better

recchi was very good but he was never one of the best

For at least a decade Modano & Sundin were certainly considered to be better players than Mark Recchi.

Part of that is that they were franchise centermen, while Recchi was a really good 1st line winger.

 

[Ogopogo*]

And if the Hall of Fame includes only players that are the equals of the above four players it would include only about 30 or 40 players at most. 4 or 5 players a decade at most.

And, what's wrong with that?

Honestly, if I ran the Hall it would be less than half the size. Maybe 125 members.

 

[sr edler]

Besides, I was refuting a specific claim of yours, that Recchi's point totals are not as impressive as they seem since he put them up at a time when such things were commonplace. But this argument hurts Modano as much as it does Recchi, since they were contemporaries

point is you can't look on stats only

sergei fedorov was a contemporary to mark recchi and he only scored two 100 points seasons [120, 107] while recchi scored three [123, 113, 107]

who was the better player?

modano wasn't as good as fedorov, or at least he wasn't as talented, but he played a similar game and he wasn't far off save for fedorov's single monster season in 94, for 5 or 6 years from age 26-31 fedorov didn't even score 70 points in a single season [63, 63, 62, 69, 68] before he came back with 83 in his last year as a red wing

 

[Dangler99*]

Keep in mind he finished 10th in scoring that year. A good season but the 123 points is misleading to those who follow the modern NHL.

Agreed. 123 points looks deceiving today. 10th in scoring is good but not domination.

 

[seventieslord]

Agreed. 123 points looks deceiving today. 10th in scoring is good but not domination.

see post 329.

 

[Iain Fyffe]

point is you can't look on stats only

sergei fedorov was a contemporary to mark recchi and he only scored two 100 points seasons [120, 107] while recchi scored three [123, 113, 107]

who was the better player?

I was offering no comment on who the better player was, overall. I was pointing out that your criticism of Recchi's scoring numbers applies equally to the other players you mentioned. So if you're discounting his offensive numbers because of that, you have to discount theirs as well.

You tried to dismiss his numbers, but they're still better numbers than the contemporaries you mention. That has to be considered.

 

[Stephen]

Does Mark Recchi Have the Most Smoke and Mirrors Career of All-Time?

By smoke and mirrors, I mean if you look at all empirical evidence from his career, he looks like an absolute all-time great, but having watched the NHL the past twenty years, you probably wouldn't have thought he was quite as good as the record books indicate on a year to year basis, nor was he that big of a superstar.

Played 1652 games, scored 577 goals, 1533 assists, which is good for 12th all time, better than luminaries like Lafleur, Trottier, even Hull and Selanne, who were way more dominant wingers from the same era, amongst many others.

Won 3 Stanley Cups, one near the beginning of his career, one near the end and one to close out his career in storybook fashion.

Compiled most of his stats during the dead puck era, but somehow managed to sneak in a career high of 53 goals, 123 points, which is tops for Philadelphia Flyers individual scoring by season, topping way more dominant players in Eric Lindros and Bobby Clarke.

Traded for John Leclair and Eric Desjardins, which looks like a king's ransom, before you realize it was before Leclair broke out as a 50 goal man on Lindros' wing.

And yet, he has zero individual awards and was only once named to the NHL's Second All-Star Team, and on the teams he played during his prime, he was seldom ever head and shoulders above anyone on his team, including guys like Vinny Damphousse, Pierre Turgeon, Keith Primeau, Saku Koivu, Jeremy Roenick, etc.

Are there any other comparables in history of a guy who did so much on paper, that might have exceeded his actual impact on a year to year basis as a player?

 

[PB37]

By smoke and mirrors, I mean if you look at all empirical evidence from his career, he looks like an absolute all-time great, but having watched the NHL the past twenty years, you probably wouldn't have thought he was quite as good as the record books indicate on a year to year basis, nor was he that big of a superstar.

Played 1652 games, scored 577 goals, 1533 assists, which is good for 12th all time, better than luminaries like Lafleur, Trottier, even Hull and Selanne, who were way more dominant wingers from the same era, amongst many others.

Won 3 Stanley Cups, one near the beginning of his career, one near the end and one to close out his career in storybook fashion.

Compiled most of his stats during the dead puck era, but somehow managed to sneak in a career high of 53 goals, 123 points, which is tops for Philadelphia Flyers individual scoring by season, topping way more dominant players in Eric Lindros and Bobby Clarke.

Traded for John Leclair and Eric Desjardins, which looks like a king's ransom, before you realize it was before Leclair broke out as a 50 goal man on Lindros' wing.

And yet, he has zero individual awards and was only once named to the NHL's Second All-Star Team, and on the teams he played during his prime, he was seldom ever head and shoulders above anyone on his team, including guys like Vinny Damphousse, Pierre Turgeon, Keith Primeau, Saku Koivu, Jeremy Roenick, etc.

Are there any other comparables in history of a guy who did so much on paper, that might have exceeded his actual impact on a year to year basis as a player?

The second most amount of points in NHL history should be enough to put someone in the HOF, don't ya think?