Is Ivan Provorov (Flyers) a "Franchise" D Man ? Thoughts...

[WingsMJN2965]

Ya, but you should package him as part of a deal to get Duncan Keith from the Hawks. (Chicago)

 

[crackdown44]

I'll add "Provorov is not a number 1 D" to the list of Things People Say on the Main Board for 5 Plus Years Without Watching More than 5 Flyers Games in that Timeframe

Along with such classics as "Couturier is a 3C" and "Claude Giroux is Declining" and "Philly is Where Goaltenders go to Die"

I’m sorry but that third one is pretty accurate lol

 

[Lotusflower]

Wow, with so much going right, how are they not firmly in the playoffs?

Ahhh the Poster Formerly Known as Baemon/Smantas. The look on your face when you saw the Flyers rattled off 5 straight and that the team is only 2 points out a playoff spot with a couple in hand must've been PRICELESS. If only I could have seen it. Oh well. This GIF should approximate it well enough....but you tell me.

 

[TheSenator]

I wouldn't put him in the same tier as Doughty, Karlsson, Subban, Hedman, Slavin. He's a tier below those guys.

He is only 20, and I am not sure he is even in the tier below the guys above. However, he is an excellent player and I bet he can be close to that level in 3-5 years.

He is absolutely not in the same tier as Karlsson, Hedman, Doughty & Subban. Not even close. Slavin also doesn't make that list IMO.

 

[crackdown44]

He is absolutely not in the same tier as Karlsson, Hedman, Doughty & Subban. Not even close. Slavin also doesn't make that list IMO.

Neither does subban really

 

[TheSenator]

Neither does subban really

I was thinking of leaving him out but as a Senators fan I feel like it would have taken away from my original point.

Karlsson, Hedman and Doughty are amongst the league's elite. They would slot into the #1D slot on any team in the league, and if at any time two of them were paired up, that team would then immediately have the best top D in the league.

Subban is a clear step below those 3 and Provorov/Slavin are another step below him.

 

[Atas2000]

While i believe Provorov is an excellent young DMAN, I do not believe at this time he is a number one "franchise" Defenseman. Doughty, Hedman, Suter, Webber, Subban, this ilk ?


I would like to get a consensus on what fans of other teams think and not Flyer fans.

He is easily a Doughty clone. Amazing defensively(at ths age and he will learn and grow on experience). Not a Karlsson offensively, but he has the tools and it is also due to his role(2PP unit for example as Ghost(who isn't reliabe on D) is on the 1PP unit, plays a ton of PK minutes, has to carry a team's D as 1D since the rookie season).And Doughty is a franchise D-man according to you.

Don't forget his age.

People get all crazy about Werenski, McAvoy, Sergachev who play in more sheltered roles and/or have solid vets(Jones, Chara, Stralman) to support their development. Provorov has to be his own mentor as he is clearly the best D-man on the team.

Provorov is a phenom in regard of his defenceman insticts at this age. He is easily a projected franchise D-man and he will be. I always remind people of age. How many franchise D-men accended to hat status years after the draft.

 

[Atas2000]

Subban is a clear step below those 3 and Provorov/Slavin are another step below him.

Putting Provorov and Slavinon the same page is not even funny. So much for your assesment.

 

[member 147413]

Very good young player.

Also a very overrated young player.

 

[Freaky Styley]

Not really sure how people can expect any more from this guy. He's his team's #1 defenseman at age 20 and would be producing even higher offensive numbers if they weren't so reliant on him taking the defensive load. Ghost gets put in a much better situation quarterbacking the #1 PP but Provorov is relied on to perform in all situations and relied upon to lead a very inexperience blueline. More offense will come eventually. I don't think he's in Doughty's level but I also think Doughty is the best defenseman in the league when he's on his game. I can't remember a defensive prospect being thrust into the fire like he has and look so poised doing it. People froth over Werenski but I would still take Provorov over him. Give him a few years and he should be in Norris contention.

 

[Dumais]

The comparisons to Werenski is unfortunate. Different players different situations. And just fyi, Jones is 24 and not what I would call a vet. And I would say they are the perfect example for Provorov. Werenski is more likely to become franchise (because he's more of a threat) than Jones. Both very good players and are top pairing players, but Werenski is more dangerous on the ice and IMO could become franchise. If Provorov had a couple more extra seasons under his belt, I think he would be a good comparison to Jones.

 

[whitstifier]

The comparisons to Werenski is unfortunate. Different players different situations. And just fyi, Jones is 24 and not what I would call a vet. And I would say they are the perfect example for Provorov. Werenski is more likely to become franchise (because he's more of a threat) than Jones. Both very good players and are top pairing players, but Werenski is more dangerous on the ice and IMO could become franchise. If Provorov had a couple more extra seasons under his belt, I think he would be a good comparison to Jones.

FYI, Jones just turned 23

 

[Tripod]

The comparisons to Werenski is unfortunate. Different players different situations. And just fyi, Jones is 24 and not what I would call a vet. And I would say they are the perfect example for Provorov. Werenski is more likely to become franchise (because he's more of a threat) than Jones. Both very good players and are top pairing players, but Werenski is more dangerous on the ice and IMO could become franchise. If Provorov had a couple more extra seasons under his belt, I think he would be a good comparison to Jones.

But you say all that, yet Provy produces just as much as Werenski at ES...on a less scoring team at ES.

That's what confuses Flyers fans....how that is ignored or not seen.

Reality is:

Provy=Werenski at ES
Werenski on CBus #1PP>Provy on the Flyers #2PP
Provy on the PK>Werenski because Werenski doesn't play the PK much

I have said it before, I have no issue if someone "ranks" Werenski ahead of Provy, but Provy should be ranked next. The same goes the other way, if you rank Provy ahead, Werenski should be right there with him.

The perceived separation comes from people only looking at points and not realizing the difference in points is #1PP in CBus vs #2 unit in Philly.

Both great young players....and both teams are happy how that draft fell. Others picking ahead of them, not so sure.

 

[Hockeypete49]

So people say he is a very good young player and overrated the same time. You must admit this is kind of funny. You really just need to watch him play. It is the little things he does with his stick use and his positioning that for a 20 year old young man just leaves me shaking my head. He already is a work horse for us, I think he played over 27 minutes last night. He is our best defenseman and it is not even close. Others on the team may put up better numbers than Provorov but(and this is no knock on them) players like Ghostisbehere,Sanheim and in the future Myers will not be better than him in my opinion. I just want to extend my thanks to the New Jersey Devils for the selection of Pavel Zacha who was picked right ahead of Provorov. I guess he is tearing it up for them.

 

[Curufinwe]

I'm not sure but I know I'd sign him to a 12 year contract in the neighborhood of 75 milly if I were running the Flyers after his rookie deal is donzo cause he gonna be good for a long time...

max length is 8 years.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Not yet, but he might be.

 

[Dumais]

But you say all that, yet Provy produces just as much as Werenski at ES...on a less scoring team at ES.

That's what confuses Flyers fans....how that is ignored or not seen.

Reality is:

Provy=Werenski at ES
Werenski on CBus #1PP>Provy on the Flyers #2PP
Provy on the PK>Werenski because Werenski doesn't play the PK much.

Cant really disagree with what you said, but there is a reason Prov isnt on the 1st PP. And why he isnt getting the chance. I've said it before, You can be a top pairing and not be franchise dman. And if you dont get the chance to play those minutes you have no chance to become one. I think the difference is the time Werenski gets and Provorov doesnt. As for their ranking, I agree and dont think the differnce between them is that great. But one is getting the oppurtinity to be franchise and doing it, the other isnt getting the oppurtinity and cant do it.

 

[tony d]

I think he is, low end IMO but I think he is there.

 

[mja]

Cant really disagree with what you said, but there is a reason Prov isnt on the 1st PP. And why he isnt getting the chance. I've said it before, You can be a top pairing and not be franchise dman. And if you dont get the chance to play those minutes you have no chance to become one. I think the difference is the time Werenski gets and Provorov doesnt. As for their ranking, I agree and dont think the differnce between them is that great. But one is getting the oppurtinity to be franchise and doing it, the other isnt getting the oppurtinity and cant do it.

Yes, here's the reason:

Shayne Gostisbehere 28 GP 4 G 18 A 22 P .78 PPG (2nd highest in league among defenseman)

 

[Stuzchuk]

in my opinion at full potential, he'll be an excellent shutdown DMan with limited offensive skills... so I'd say something around lower tier 1D/higher tier 2D

 

[Danko]

Cant really disagree with what you said, but there is a reason Prov isnt on the 1st PP. And why he isnt getting the chance.

Ghost Bear

 

[NJ DevLolz]

Ahhh the Poster Formerly Known as Baemon/Smantas. The look on your face when you saw the Flyers rattled off 5 straight and that the team is only 2 points out a playoff spot with a couple in hand must've been PRICELESS. If only I could have seen it. Oh well. This GIF should approximate it well enough....but you tell me.

Lol wtf are you talking about?

 

[Rebels57]

Lol wtf are you talking about?

Are you trying to get banned for a 3rd time?

 

[StoneHands]

Cant really disagree with what you said, but there is a reason Prov isnt on the 1st PP. And why he isnt getting the chance. I've said it before, You can be a top pairing and not be franchise dman. And if you dont get the chance to play those minutes you have no chance to become one. I think the difference is the time Werenski gets and Provorov doesnt. As for their ranking, I agree and dont think the differnce between them is that great. But one is getting the oppurtinity to be franchise and doing it, the other isnt getting the oppurtinity and cant do it.

Yeah, the reason is because Ghost is a top 3 PP QB in the NHL. He's got the 3rd most PP points in the NHL since his rookie season. Burns is the leader and Ghost has just 6 less points despite playing 26 less games because he was a mid season call up. If you think Werenski would be playing over Ghost on the 1st PP, you're out of your mind.

Having another talented offensive player on a team doesn't make Provorov any less valuable. You don't have to be the highest scoring player on your team to be the best player and that's even more true as a defenseman.

I wouldn't consider Provorov a "Franchise" defenseman just yet but he's definitely a legit #1. You don't have to be a top 3 defenseman in the league to be a #1.

 

[mja]

Are you trying to get banned for a 3rd time?

Well, making a sock puppet account is a bannable offense, I believe. Or is it a mitten puppet in this case?