Is Ivan Provorov (Flyers) a "Franchise" D Man ? Thoughts...

Dumais

It's All In The Reflexes
Jul 24, 2013
1,676
717
Look guys, I agree with most of what you are saying. There is one problem, its hard to be a "franchise" player if your not getting the time, and if there are better players than you in certain situations. Franchise should be your best player. Want to call him top pairing, 1D or 2D, fine I wont argue against that. Franchise, IMO, not yet. He needs more time, and I'm not referring to the 1st PP time either he could become franchise on the 2nd PP or even just during even strength. But I think he needs to improve and at his age that is totally possible.
 

mja

Everything was beautiful, and nothing hurt
Jan 7, 2005
12,644
29,092
Lucy the Elephant's Belly
Look guys, I agree with most of what you are saying. There is one problem, its hard to be a "franchise" player if your not getting the time, and if there are better players than you in certain situations. Franchise should be your best player. Want to call him top pairing, 1D or 2D, fine I wont argue against that. Franchise, IMO, not yet. He needs more time, and I'm not referring to the 1st PP time either he could become franchise on the 2nd PP or even just during even strength. But I think he needs to improve and at his age that is totally possible.

Who's calling him a franchise defenseman? That seems to have been thrown out there by the OP as a strawman. He's not a franchise defender yet. I don't think there are any Flyers fans claiming that he is one. But he is most definitely a # 1 defender, and we're just saying that it's dumb to point out his not being on the top PP unit as something that indicates a lack of ability or something. It has nothing to do with that. He's an extremely talented player offensively, as evidenced by his ES production. It's just that his teammate, who is one of the most offensively-talented blueliners in the league, is even better in that regard.
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,851
86,228
Nova Scotia
Look guys, I agree with most of what you are saying. There is one problem, its hard to be a "franchise" player if your not getting the time, and if there are better players than you in certain situations. Franchise should be your best player. Want to call him top pairing, 1D or 2D, fine I wont argue against that. Franchise, IMO, not yet. He needs more time, and I'm not referring to the 1st PP time either he could become franchise on the 2nd PP or even just during even strength. But I think he needs to improve and at his age that is totally possible.
No Flyer fan said he was a franchise Dman right now. That was the OP. We say he is a #1 because we see him play everyday and know his value.

And to comment on the PP....Ghost. That's all that need to be said really, but I will expand on this.
Ghost is 1st in PP points for Dmen this year.
Ghost is 2nd in PP points the last 2 years behind only Hedman.
Ghost is 3rd in PP points the last 3 years behind only Shatty and Burns.
And to expand that, he is 4 behind Shatty in 15 less games, 6 behind Burns in 26 less games.

Ghost is arguably the best PP Dman in the league.

When Provy entered the league, Ghost was coming of of a Calder runner up season and had cemented himself as a top PP Dman in the league. And the Flyers only use 1 Dman. There was, and has not been, any reason at all for the Flyers to remove Ghost from the top unit and put Provy there. Why make the change is Ghost is a top guy there? And Ghost being there means Provy plays more ES and plays the PK instead.

And now here is the part that hypocritical. You say that he can't be a franchise Dman if there are better options at certain situations. Why is that logic not used when Dmen don't play the PK? Werenski only plays 43 seconds of PK time. Why? Because there are better options. So he can never be a franchise Dman. Karlsson plays the 5th least PK minutes in Ottawa. Is he not a franchise Dman? Of course he is. But Ottawa has better options to play defense on the PK, freeing him up for offense. Provy gets the 18th most PK minutes per game in the entire league. He is infinitely better defensively than any other Dman for gets the "hard" minutes.

In the end, he is a #1. The term "franchise" is even more subject to interpretation. But for me, not Dman at age 20 should be dubbed "already" a franchise Dman. That is something that comes with time and having good years over and over again. So far, Provy has had a good rookie year, and is having a good 2nd year...playing as our #1Dman while lugging around Andrew MacDonald as his D partner....an achievement in itself.
 
Nov 13, 2006
11,527
1,404
Ohio
Not even the best D from his draft, guy taken after him is IMO already at the level of the OPs guys. Just ask NYI fans who they think is better facing both in the metro. There was Isles fans saying he is in line for multiple Norris's tonight. Kid is leading the league in goals for a D and since last year started the only 2 guys who have scored more are Karlson and Burns. He is abiut to break the Columbus defenseman goals in a season record after 2 more with more then half the season left. Provy is a future 1 and has potential franchise talent but right now no.

To the OPs credit I agree McAvoy also will be the better career D. They are both in the same catagory right now though both are futures #1 but I think McAvoy has a higher ceiling and floor.


Current franchise D
Karlson
Doughty
Hedman
Jones
Werenski
Josi
Pierangelo

Josi is borderline but I give it to him and anyone who doesn't think Jones again ask NYI fans after watching tonight.

I watch almost every game of both the Flyers and Blue Jackets.

Provorov is a #1 D
Jones is a #1D
Werenski is terrific, but on Columbus's blue line he's a #2
None of those three currently fit my definition of a "franchise" player. All could end up as one but none are there today. Hell Karlsson, Hedman, Josi and Pietrangelo weren't 1D in their draft +2 year either.

I don't know how anyone could compare McAvoy to these guys. He looks really good but he has a 29 game career at this point. Let's not go overboard.
 
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Nov 13, 2006
11,527
1,404
Ohio
But you say all that, yet Provy produces just as much as Werenski at ES...on a less scoring team at ES.

That's what confuses Flyers fans....how that is ignored or not seen.

Reality is:

Provy=Werenski at ES
Werenski on CBus #1PP>Provy on the Flyers #2PP
Provy on the PK>Werenski because Werenski doesn't play the PK much

I have said it before, I have no issue if someone "ranks" Werenski ahead of Provy, but Provy should be ranked next. The same goes the other way, if you rank Provy ahead, Werenski should be right there with him.

The perceived separation comes from people only looking at points and not realizing the difference in points is #1PP in CBus vs #2 unit in Philly.

Both great young players....and both teams are happy how that draft fell. Others picking ahead of them, not so sure.

Werenski QBs Columbus #2 PP. Jones has QBd the #1 PP most of this season.
 

Rebels57

Former Flyers fan
Sponsor
Sep 28, 2014
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Werenski QBs Columbus #2 PP. Jones has QBd the #1 PP most of this season.

Werenski racked up a big chunk of his points playing PP1 for Columbus last year.

The hilarious thing about last year was when Brady Skjei made the all-rookie team over Provorov. Gotta love that New York Bump athletes enjoy :laugh:
 

1865

Alpha Couturier
Feb 28, 2005
16,848
5,610
Chester, UK
Provorov is currently our number one D and in time will be a franchise top 5 in the league D. Of course he’s not Doughty, he’s 20 years old
 

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