Newsday: Is it time to rebuild again?

[wingnutks]

How do you rebuild something that was never built in the first place?

 

[CaptDenisPotvin]

Do we have to rebuild the rebuild? My answer is yes AND no....yes because some of it is useless, mainly bailey who was supposed to be part of the "core" is a disaster at this point and has to go. Mcdonald of defense imo was supposed to be part of the "core" is way overrated and also has to be shown the door along with Viz because of his advanced age, his talent can get us something at the deadline. Others that should go are regin, PMB, Carkner and possibly Grabs if we get a decent return.

The "No" portion is because when we started this rebuild we didnt have ANYBODY with serious talent at the NHL level or in the minors. Now we have talent like JT and Hammer long with Strome and all the defensive prospect in the minors. I dont think its so much a rebuild as it is a cleansing of the trash that we have hung on to for too long.


On a side note, i hope Moulson continues to struggle in buffalo and he realizes he needs JT as much as JT needs him. In the long run it might have cost the islanders a 1st and a 2nd (or even less if they flip Vanek for a pick) to find out it wasnt as much of a one way street as everyone thought. Hopefully we didnt burn a bridge to badly with Moulson and next year we can just forget all about this season

 

[Konk]

If the Islanders are lucky they'll finish where they are now, 2nd to last and pick Aaron Ekblad. This would accelerate the current rebuild, because this guy can step in right now and play top four minutes. He's exactly what they need on the backend, a big, physical, calming presence who can make the first pass and provide offense from the blueline. He is a defense-first d-man and takes pride in clearing the crease and stopping the opposition. Future #1 defenseman with great character and leadership qualities.

The season is lost otherwise, IMO, and they might as well salvage Vanek for what they can, but they don't need to blow it up completely. Just the coaching staff .

 

[A Pointed Stick]

If the Islanders are lucky they'll finish where they are now, 2nd to last and pick Aaron Ekblad. This would accelerate the current rebuild, because this guy can step in right now and play top four minutes. He's exactly what they need on the backend, a big, physical, calming presence who can make the first pass and provide offense from the blueline. He is a defense-first d-man and takes pride in clearing the crease and stopping the opposition. Future #1 defenseman with great character and leadership qualities.

The season is lost otherwise, IMO, and they might as well salvage Vanek for what they can, but they don't need to blow it up completely. Just the coaching staff .

I don't disagree with who you pick if you can from what little I have read and seen about the choices at this point, but if we show up to the lottery with the #2 pick, after the balls fall, we will most likely wind up with the #3 pick. I think it is 44% chance overall to either keep the #2 or move to #1. I really hate those odds. If we continue to tank I hope Buffalo grows a team and plays over their heads.

 

[Konk]

I don't disagree with who you pick if you can from what little I have read and seen about the choices at this point, but if we show up to the lottery with the #2 pick, after the balls fall, we will most likely wind up with the #3 pick. I think it is 44% chance overall to either keep the #2 or move to #1. I really hate those odds. If we continue to tank I hope Buffalo grows a team and plays over their heads.

That could happen and IMO the top guys in this draft (Reinhart, Ekblad, Dal Colle, and Draisaitl) are damn near interchangeable so they still may be able to pick him up.

I'm not prepared to guess what would happen in the lottery so I'm just speaking in hypotheticals if they had the #2 spot after the fact. Either way, out of the above, Ekblad would have the quickest impact and would fit the Islanders perfectly.

 

[Sparksrus3]

In the last 20 or so years of drafting I just thought all of you would like to see who we draft that actually has a career with this team.

#1- radek martinek drafted 8 th round 1999, 476 games played for NYI
#2-Scott Lachance 1st round 1991, 450
#3-Fran's nielson. 3rd round 2002, 397
#4-Travis green 2nd round 1989, 388
#5-Bailey. 358
#6-okposo. 349

That's it! And if you went back a few more years to the post cup mid 80's you can add Flatley,king, and a few others. With the revolving door here for the last 20-25 years,with a few exceptions, it has been a generation of rebuilds.us

 

[lacunacoil777]

If I was in charge, I'd blow the whole team up in a matter of 24 hours. Bill torrey pulled off the TUrgeon and steve Thomas/uwe Krupp/Hogue...and we got a useless player I forget the name...anyway Torrey did both trades the same day. If your not a useless GM you can rebuild in one day if your smart. Not 7 years. I'd be comfortable trading all of these players, Bailey/okiposo/grabner...for one good #2 defensemen. Then I would trade any defensemen we have besides Hamonic...to get a good goalie. If you can somehow trade Mat Martin for Talbot for example...you gotta do that trade. We cant wait 3 years to draft a goalie. If snow can move out 40% of this roster in the next 48 hours I think he has to do it. If he can move out everyone not names Tavares then all the better! Even Hamonic....who is not nor ever will be a #2 defensemen.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Staple got torched by some schmo on Twitter last night and he lost his cool sniping back. Frustration all around this team right now.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

If I was in charge, I'd blow the whole team up in a matter of 24 hours. Bill torrey pulled off the TUrgeon and steve Thomas/uwe Krupp/Hogue...and we got a useless player I forget the name...anyway Torrey did both trades the same day. If your not a useless GM you can rebuild in one day if your smart. Not 7 years. I'd be comfortable trading all of these players, Bailey/okiposo/grabner...for one good #2 defensemen. Then I would trade any defensemen we have besides Hamonic...to get a good goalie. If you can somehow trade Mat Martin for Talbot for example...you gotta do that trade. We cant wait 3 years to draft a goalie. If snow can move out 40% of this roster in the next 48 hours I think he has to do it. If he can move out everyone not names Tavares then all the better! Even Hamonic....who is not nor ever will be a #2 defensemen.

Mat Martin for Talbot? Bad idea. We need more guys like Martin because we lose too many games just by being out muscled and out hit. Move some of the softer skilked underbelly first and back fill with men who can play with an edge to get a goaltender.

 

[gonnaneedsomewine]

Team is devoid of talent. Last year was an anomaly, got lucky in a shortened season and snuck into the playoffs and gave the Penguins a good series because of how bad Fleury was.

You look at all the guys that are supposed to be the "building blocks" of this team, and none of them are worth anything. The only high pick that has really paid dividends is John Tavares, obviously.

Like the Oilers are a bad team, but at least look at some of the offensive talent they have on that team with all the high draft picks they have had. Their offensive talent dwarfs the Islanders, it's not even close. Same thing with Colorado, they've been bad for a while and look at some of the offensive talent they have drafted and developed.

You consider where the Islanders have been drafting the last decade, and it's embarrassing how little true top end talent this team has.

Need a new owner who will subsequently fire Garth Snow and install a new GM. A GM who doesn't come right up from off the bench as a backup goalie to become the GM. A GM who has some experience and has paid his dues in front office/hockey ops/scouting or has previous experience as a GM.

 

[stranger34]

Do we have to rebuild the rebuild? My answer is yes AND no....yes because some of it is useless, mainly bailey who was supposed to be part of the "core" is a disaster at this point and has to go. Mcdonald of defense imo was supposed to be part of the "core" is way overrated and also has to be shown the door along with Viz because of his advanced age, his talent can get us something at the deadline. Others that should go are regin, PMB, Carkner and possibly Grabs if we get a decent return.

The "No" portion is because when we started this rebuild we didnt have ANYBODY with serious talent at the NHL level or in the minors. Now we have talent like JT and Hammer long with Strome and all the defensive prospect in the minors. I dont think its so much a rebuild as it is a cleansing of the trash that we have hung on to for too long.


On a side note, i hope Moulson continues to struggle in buffalo and he realizes he needs JT as much as JT needs him. In the long run it might have cost the islanders a 1st and a 2nd (or even less if they flip Vanek for a pick) to find out it wasnt as much of a one way street as everyone thought. Hopefully we didnt burn a bridge to badly with Moulson and next year we can just forget all about this season

One can only hope, but snow / wang don't seem the types to acknowledge they made a mistake and reverse course.

 

[Sparksrus3]

If I was in charge, I'd blow the whole team up in a matter of 24 hours. Bill torrey pulled off the TUrgeon and steve Thomas/uwe Krupp/Hogue...and we got a useless player I forget the name...anyway Torrey did both trades the same day. If your not a useless GM you can rebuild in one day if your smart. Not 7 years. I'd be comfortable trading all of these players, Bailey/okiposo/grabner...for one good #2 defensemen. Then I would trade any defensemen we have besides Hamonic...to get a good goalie. If you can somehow trade Mat Martin for Talbot for example...you gotta do that trade. We cant wait 3 years to draft a goalie. If snow can move out 40% of this roster in the next 48 hours I think he has to do it. If he can move out everyone not names Tavares then all the better! Even Hamonic....who is not nor ever will be a #2 defensemen.

The useless player without looking it up Dave mcilwain rings a bell with me.

 

[BillD]

Mat Martin for Talbot? Bad idea. We need more guys like Martin because we lose too many games just by being out muscled and out hit. Move some of the softer skilked underbelly first and back fill with men who can play with an edge to get a goaltender.

I love MM and would not want to part with him. He is an important cog to a winning team when all the other imprtant holes are filled. Unfortuantely we have too many holes to fill and not enough chips to get us all or even most of them. I would consider moving MM for the right overpayment that could get us closer to a competent contending team. There are very few players that are untouchable, meaning we get back more than we give in terms of usefulness to our complete construction of a winner.

 

[lacunacoil777]

I like Martin also but he has never won a playoff round for the islanders. Everyone is tradeable in my opionion...other then Tavares because for some odd reason he likes being a Islander so you should keep him. Otherwise id be open to moving him also in the right trade. This team needs some young goalie to step in now, if you have to trade skaters you do it because without a goalie you got nothing. Martin can be replaced with a AHL goon, not the same but at least youd have the muscle replaced. Your not getting a good goalie for grabner or bailey. Im not sure any team wants those two players for anything. Okiposo probably can be moved for a 2nd round pick or #4 defensemen.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

I love MM and would not want to part with him. He is an important cog to a winning team when all the other imprtant holes are filled. Unfortuantely we have too many holes to fill and not enough chips to get us all or even most of them. I would consider moving MM for the right overpayment that could get us closer to a competent contending team. There are very few players that are untouchable, meaning we get back more than we give in terms of usefulness to our complete construction of a winner.

I look at it as a balance. We have huge deficits in goal and on defense. We also have a huge hole in physical play. Martin fulfills a chunk of the physical play. In fact when he is out the ice is a different sheet for most teams. He is unique that way. IMO, keep him, and try to develop his other skill sets.

I like Martin also but he has never won a playoff round for the islanders. Everyone is tradeable in my opionion...other then Tavares because for some odd reason he likes being a Islander so you should keep him. Otherwise id be open to moving him also in the right trade. This team needs some young goalie to step in now, if you have to trade skaters you do it because without a goalie you got nothing. Martin can be replaced with a AHL goon, not the same but at least youd have the muscle replaced. Your not getting a good goalie for grabner or bailey. Im not sure any team wants those two players for anything. Okiposo probably can be moved for a 2nd round pick or #4 defensemen.

You are letting your stomach acid talk for you now. I am unhappy too, but long before you touch Martin you move many other pieces. Don't get fooled by his placement on the fourth line. As his skating continues to improve he won't stay there. Do you remember his role in Sarnia? He isn't a goon. You might as well call C. Gillies a goon too then.

 

[original islander]

The useless player without looking it up Dave mcilwain rings a bell with me.

Yeah Mcilwain was the 4th guy from Buffalo along with Turgeon, Hogue and Krupp. I think we added Randy Wood to Lafontaine in the deal. The other trade was Brent Sutter for Thomas and Adam Creighton. Creighton was a really big guy and a decent player but got into Al's doghouse early I think.

The problem with trying to do that now would mean trading JT just as we traded Lafontaine. We would have to get something like Evander Kane, Bogosian and Blake Wheeler for equivalent value to the return in the Turgeon trade. Biggest difficulty is Garth is no Torrey. Lafontaine and Turgeon were pretty much equal if not Pierre being a little better at the time. Bill completely ripped off both Buffalo and Chicago that day. Unfortunately in this type of trade Bill is normally the ripper while Garth is normally the one who gets ripped.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Yeah Mcilwain was the 4th guy from Buffalo along with Turgeon, Hogue and Krupp. I think we added Randy Wood to Lafontaine in the deal. The other trade was Brent Sutter for Thomas and Adam Creighton. Creighton was a really big guy and a decent player but got into Al's doghouse early I think.

The problem with trying to do that now would mean trading JT just as we traded Lafontaine. We would have to get something like Evander Kane, Bogosian and Blake Wheeler for equivalent value to the return in the Turgeon trade. Biggest difficulty is Garth is no Torrey. Lafontaine and Turgeon were pretty much equal if not Pierre being a little better at the time. Bill completely ripped off both Buffalo and Chicago that day. Unfortunately in this type of trade Bill is normally the ripper while Garth is normally the one who gets ripped.

Yeah...
<----- You can see who my favorite all time Islander is, but even as a huge fan of his and how sad I was that he was traded to Chicago, I knew that we were getting the better end of that deal with an aging Brent going back for Thomas in his prime. It was definitely a great trade for the Isles.

 

[original islander]

Yeah...
<----- You can see who my favorite all time Islander is, but even as a huge fan of his and how sad I was that he was traded to Chicago, I knew that we were getting the better end of that deal with an aging Brent going back for Thomas in his prime. It was definitely a great trade for the Isles.

I'm in a similar position in that my favorite player was traded for Butch Goring. Still think that we would've won if it had been Merrick that was traded instead of Harris or if Bill had made the Sittler-Gillies trade but we'll never know.

Also think that if somehow we could've got Brent back we may have withstood Turgeon's injury at the hands of Hunter and got another cup. Brent was one tough competitor.

 

[bigtim1988]

the sky is falling in islander land this is one of my favorite websites, but when the team is stinking up the joint like it is right now, it becomes far too depressing to frequent it. all the negative rhetoric is too much of an overload and its depressing. I feel like im in purgatory with this team constantly losing.

 

[nexttothemoon]

Coming in peace... as a fan of another franchise with a lot of unfulfilled promise (the Oilers) I can feel your collective pain. So much brightness and the promise of better to come yet it all gets flushed down the drain in a season like this filled with doubt, question marks and regression.

 

[sebsisles]

i woudlnt call it a rebuild, we have all the pieces its just a matter of when they will be ready and stepping in. in 3 years our lines could be looking something like this, without picking up any FAs or trades.

Strome Tavares Okposo

Bailey Nelson Lee

Grabner Nielsen Clutterbuck

Martin Cizikas Mcdonald


Hamonic Reinhart

Dehann Pedan

Pulock Mayfield

obv this wont be spot on bc i do expect to sign some kind of defense help, that dcore would be way to young. but than again you never know with our managment.

 

[blitzkriegs]

i woudlnt call it a rebuild, we have all the pieces its just a matter of when they will be ready and stepping in. in 3 years our lines could be looking something like this, without picking up any FAs or trades.

Strome Tavares Okposo

Bailey Nelson Lee

Grabner Nielsen Clutterbuck

Martin Cizikas Mcdonald


Hamonic Reinhart

Dehann Pedan

Pulock Mayfield

obv this wont be spot on bc i do expect to sign some kind of defense help, that dcore would be way to young. but than again you never know with our managment.

Great, more kids. Right up Wang's alley. Kids let him spend to the 29th payroll in the league (remember the are using 2.2 of Yashin) and say it's a rebuild.

Wang is NOT investing in the team. If he wanted to invest, then he would have spent $ in the offseason that demonstrated he wanted to take the next step.

 

[sebsisles]

Great, more kids. Right up Wang's alley. Kids let him spend to the 29th payroll in the league (remember the are using 2.2 of Yashin) and say it's a rebuild.

Wang is NOT investing in the team. If he wanted to invest, then he would have spent $ in the offseason that demonstrated he wanted to take the next step.

you must have missed when i said i expect him to sign some d help bc that unit is way to young

 

[redbull]

Isles don't need a rebuild, they just need better players. They can get them by spending money. To do it through the draft is risky because you can't make mistakes and have to develop each player.

Wang should spend more if he cares about winning.

Snow has enough to spend, he just does it poorly, compared to other teams that spend the same, and don't have as many top five picks and no Tavares.

It's starting to look like Snow can't build a winning team despite his waiver skills and contract negotiating. Not with the given $$s OR, it's too soon, too soon to acquire a player like Vanek. Snow's "plan" seems confusing. You don't add a Vanek if you are rebuilding OR if you are not good enough with what you have. He may have misread the team.

If Snow believes this team is better than it's record shows (and it probably is), then it's on Cappy.

But if it's guys like Grabner and Bailey (less so PMB and Regin) simply aren't good enough, then it's on Snow.

I would clean house, because everyone has dirty hands here. Wang, Snow, Capuano, Weight/Thompson with the special teams.

 

[blitzkriegs]

Isles don't need a rebuild, they just need better players. They can get them by spending money. To do it through the draft is risky because you can't make mistakes and have to develop each player.

Wang should spend more if he cares about winning.

Snow has enough to spend, he just does it poorly, compared to other teams that spend the same, and don't have as many top five picks and no Tavares.

It's starting to look like Snow can't build a winning team despite his waiver skills and contract negotiating. Not with the given $$s OR, it's too soon, too soon to acquire a player like Vanek. Snow's "plan" seems confusing. You don't add a Vanek if you are rebuilding OR if you are not good enough with what you have. He may have misread the team.

If Snow believes this team is better than it's record shows (and it probably is), then it's on Cappy.

But if it's guys like Grabner and Bailey (less so PMB and Regin) simply aren't good enough, then it's on Snow.

I would clean house, because everyone has dirty hands here. Wang, Snow, Capuano, Weight/Thompson with the special teams.

I think it's the leadership void in the dressing room. Whether people liked it or not, Streit kept JT behind the scenes in the leadership category. He also ate up 20 mins a night on the back end. Glad Snow did not overpay for Streit, albeit declining, bc he WOULD be helping the team right now.

In the Vanek trade, the Isles essentially split the difference in salary with BUF on Vanek and moulson. There was a 2.5 difference with sabres picking up 1.2 of it. That was how Wang invested in the team...

Keep in mind, if Vanek goes by the deadline than Wang pays out LESS.