Is hockey in Canada dying?

[WarriorofTime]

who can afford to put their kids in hockey these days?

Former NHL players. They have the money, the hockey passion, know the system well and connections. Not exactly bad genetics either...

It's already a family affair these days where it feels like half the draft picks have a father, uncle or brother that played in the NHL. Give it 10 years and it'll become hardpressed to not see that.

When you watch obscure Olympic sports in the upcoming Games, pay attention to the family connections if it's a sport that is expensive to participate in and has a high barrier of entry. If you look at their Bios, you will often see that their parents were former Olympians as well, so they passed that down. Hockey will look more and more like that.

 

[Goose]

It's not dying, but Canada's global dominance is diminishing and its place in Canadian identity is slowly moving from the center towards the peripheries.

1. Other countries have closed the early development gap and hence overall competitiveness gap, particularly the USA.
2. The finances of playing today are creating barriers that didn’t exist 20-50 years ago, increasingly limiting participation.
3. Overall kid activity levels and participation in sports is dropping across the board.
4. Girls participation in hockey and the women’s game progress is a huge positive stemming the tide of what would be worse overall decay on the boys/mens side.
5. It’s not exactly an immigrant-friendly sport and Canada relies on immigration for growth and continued prosperity, we’ve had something like 6-7 million immigrants over the past 30 years, and I believe roughly 30% of those are from India or China. How represented are those populations in Canadian hockey? Don't get me wrong, I'm by no means saying is has anything to do with racism or anything like that (on a large scale), but it's one of the more difficult games to pick up for a variety of reasons, in spite of some very good grassroots programs and efforts to make the game more accessible.

Canada peaked in terms of a lived collective "hockey identity" probably around the 1980s, it’s a different world kids are growing up in. If I had to pick a single moment as the peak, I'd say Gretzky to Lemieux in the 87 Canada Cup,

Hockey is still a big part of Canadian life and identity, it's not "dying", but it'll never again be what it once was.

There are both positives and negatives from that IMO.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

I think this thread is devolving into thinly veiled criticism of immigrants and Trudeau. The cost of living has skyrocketed globally. Not just in Canada. Why is that so hard for people to understand?

Western Canada is producing more elite talent than ever before. In a ten year period they produced Bedard, The Iginlas, McKenna, DuPont, Makar, Celebrini etc.

 

[WarriorofTime]

It's not dying, but Canada's global dominance is diminishing and its place in Canadian identity is slowly moving from the center towards the peripheries.

1. Other countries have closed the early development gap and hence overall competitiveness gap, particularly the USA.
2. The finances of playing today are creating barriers that didn’t exist 20-50 years ago, increasingly limiting participation.
3. Overall kid activity levels and participation in sports is dropping across the board.
4. Girls participation in hockey and the women’s game progress is a huge positive stemming the tide of what would be worse overall decay on the boys/mens side.
5. It’s not exactly an immigrant-friendly sport and Canada relies on immigration for growth and continued prosperity, we’ve had something like 6-7 million immigrants over the past 30 years, and I believe roughly 30% of those are from India or China. How represented are those populations in Canadian hockey? Don't get me wrong, I'm by no means saying is has anything to do with racism or anything like that (on a large scale), but it's one of the more difficult games to pick up for a variety of reasons, in spite of some very good grassroots programs and efforts to make the game more accessible.

Just the death of the monoculture in general also plays into it. I doubt you'd get a modern day OJ Simpson Trial in the U.S. for instance. It's no longer a question of "what's on", there are limitless ways to captivate a person's attention now, so no one space can dominate to the same extent.

 

[Goose]

Just the death of the monoculture in general also plays into it. I doubt you'd get a modern day OJ Simpson Trial in the U.S. for instance. It's no longer a question of "what's on", there are limitless ways to captivate a person's attention now, so no one space can dominate to the same extent.

Yeah that's an interesting question, I sort of agree, but also think about Kobe's death, that was a pretty major event. I think I agree, but the exception is maybe the people at the top of the pyramid in terms of exposure/notoriety.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

A Serbian keeps winning NBA MVP is basketball dying in the US?

I think it is pretty much dying. With the blatant disregard for the rules. "Carry, carry, travel. Offensive foul, bucket." A lot of people might watch it. But they aren't watching basketball.

 

[Golden_Jet]

It’s not dying, but a lot of kids today are too hung up on video games, instead of going outside, to play any sport,
Video games for kids has been going on awhile instead of sports.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Nothing comes close to hockey in the publics mind, I can't see any sport ever coming close in a couple lifetimes.

You always here some guy trying to be edgy "give it 10 years bro" but it never happens.

But it not really set up for it, Canada is a large country and very spread out you aren't getting many people growing up in Victoria BC and becoming diehard Raptor fans.

 

[HFpapi]

I think this thread is devolving into thinly veiled criticism of immigrants and Trudeau. The cost of living has skyrocketed globally. Not just in Canada. Why is that so hard for people to understand?

Western Canada is producing more elite talent than ever before. In a ten year period they produced Bedard, The Iginlas, McKenna, DuPont, Makar, Celebrini etc.

Opinion: Canada is falling behind its peers in terms of living standards — can it catch up?

Canada's ongoing economic malaise and decline in living standards are rooted in a constellation of domestic and global challenges.

www.biv.com

Canada’s living standards alarmingly on track to be the lowest in 40 years: study

If per-capita gross domestic product does not recover in 2024, the decline since mid-2019 may be the longest in the last four decades

nationalpost.com

Immigration to Canada surges in April, worsening outlook for housing affordability

Plus, BMO hikes target on the TSX

www.theglobeandmail.com

'Huge increases': Economists sound alarm over impact of Canada population growth on housing market

National Bank says the 2024 trend, which is seeing growth far higher than in the same period last year, is likely to worsen the housing crisis before it gets better.

ca.finance.yahoo.com

National Bank economist: ‘The demographic shock is getting worse in Canada’

Population growth appears to be picking up steam, ahead of government crackdown

www.theglobeandmail.com

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Canada’s population hits 41M months after breaking 40M threshold | Globalnews.ca

Nine months after reaching 40 million people, Canada cracked a new threshold on Wednesday, the same day Statistics Canada released a report showing the pace of population growth.

globalnews.ca

1) Things are not ok in Canada

2) We are facing issues very unique to ourselves, we are not simply following global trends.

3) Immigration and absolutely insane rate of population growth is (one of) the direct cause(s) whether you say so or not. It's not a "critique of immigrants" to talk about facts, give it up. It's absolutely true that the country is taking in too many people too quickly right now.

 

[Golden_Jet]

The United States is taking over as the hockey superpower with them churning out players. Canada seems to be falling behind.

Heard that 3 decades ago as well lol.

 

[Minnesota Knudsens]

It’s not dying, but a lot of kids today are too hung up on video games, instead of going outside, to play any sport,
Video games for kids has been going on awhile instead of sports.

Craziest part to me is that kids are treating these games as some form of legit competition, akin to playing sports.

My son just got into hockey at age 11, and he got good at it really fast. You’d think this would be a positive experience, but minor hockey here is truly nutty. I feel as if starting after the age of 9 here, you’re kind of doomed. And that’s not because your kid isn’t talented, but more because you haven’t formed a proper network with the other parents.

It’s tough to find an hour of ice time that doesn’t cost hundreds of dollars, so if you don’t have 20 friends that also want to play, get ready to go broke. I can take my son to the park near our house and pitch a baseball to him, kick a soccer ball around or shoot hoops. Heck I can even play tennis with him for free down there.

 

[tfwnogf]

Reality is hockey is expensive these days. Back in the Gordie Howe days, everyone was broke. In his book he talks about how as a kid his shin pads were magazines wrapped around with elastic bands. They innovated however they could with what they had.

Safety regulations are important but with them they increase costs for everything so a kid like gordie Howe with no money wouldn't be able to play in a league. Just the way it goes. With rising costs of necessities like food and housing, there's less money to go around for recreational activities.

 

[overlords]

Canada is dying. Hockey going with it is isn't some huge surprise.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Heard that 3 decades ago as well lol.

"Superpower" hyperbolic, of course, but wouldn't you say the gap is shrinking compared to 3 decades ago?

In 1993-94, Canadians accounted for 64.4 % of NHL games played and Americans accounted for 17.9 % of NHL games played. At the World Juniors, the USA collectively in its history had 0 Gold Medals, 0 Silver Medals and 2 Bronze Medals.

Fast-forward to 2023-24, Canadians accounted for 42.4 % of NHL games played and Americans accounted for 28.8 % of NHL games played. So the Canadian Share is -20% and the American share is +11.9%. Put another way, even though the collective North American Share (aka players from whom the NHL is their "home league") has fallen from 82.3 % to 71.2 %, the USA share has still managed to significantly increase. At the World Juniors, the USA has won 5 Gold Medals, 1 Silver Medal and 4 Bronze Medals in the last 15 years, which is only a bit behind Canada's 5 Gold Medals, 4 Silver Medals, 1 Bronze Medal in that same period.

So I don't know what people were saying three decades ago, but the relative hockey landscape has certainly shifted in the last 30 years. I'm not predicting the next 30 years would have the same level of shift, but it'll be an interesting thing to keep an eye on.

 

[Minnesota Knudsens]

"Superpower" hyperbolic, of course, but wouldn't you say the gap is shrinking compared to 3 decades ago?

In 1993-94, Canadians accounted for 64.4 % of NHL games played and Americans accounted for 17.9 % of NHL games played. At the World Juniors, the USA collectively in its history had 0 Gold Medals, 0 Silver Medals and 2 Bronze Medals.

Fast-forward to 2023-24, Canadians accounted for 42.4 % of NHL games played and Americans accounted for 28.8 % of NHL games played. So the Canadian Share is -20% and the American share is +11.9%. At the World Juniors, the USA has won 5 Gold Medals, 1 Silver Medal and 4 Bronze Medals in the last 15 years, which is only a bit behind Canada's 5 Gold Medals, 4 Silver Medals, 1 Bronze Medal in that same period.

So I don't know what people were saying three decades ago, but the relative hockey landscape has certainly shifted in the last 30 years. I'm not predicting the next 30 years would have the same level of shift, but it'll be an interesting thing to keep an eye on.

Over that period of time, hockey became a big money game (like pretty much every other sport, albeit to a lesser degree). Also the NHL’s mission has been to grow the game in the States and they’ve been largely successful.

Considering the relative populations of the 2 countries we’re talking about, it’s not really a surprise that Americans are catching up.

 

[JianYang]

Heard that 3 decades ago as well lol.

I don't think I really heard that argument 3 decades ago, but usa now has more registered hockey players than Canada, and when you look at two hypothetical best on best rosters at this moment, you could easily argue that the American roster is superior, or at the very least on par with what Canada can send out.

I don't know how much time it will take, but the US is 10 times larger, and it was only a matter of time before they caught up. They are co-superpowers now, and still have more room to create a gap

 

[Habssince89]

Canada is dying. Hockey going with it is isn't some huge surprise.

Unchecked capitalism outpriced us all.

 

[SSCBLUEJET]

sure, and they were born in 2005 ish.

This is a long-term issue, that we will see in the coming

sure, and they were born in 2005 ish.

This is a long-term issue, that we will see in the coming generation

Except this question was asked in 95 as well. In fact, the topic has been discussed as far back as the 90's.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I don't think I really heard that argument 3 decades ago, but usa now has more registered hockey players than Canada, and when you look at two hypothetical best on best rosters at this moment, you could easily argue that the American roster is superior, or at the very least on par with what Canada can send out.

I don't know how much time it will take, but the US is 10 times larger, and it was only a matter of time before they caught up. They are co-superpowers now, and still have more room to create a gap

Just infrastructurally, it'll be tough for USA to really overtake Canada, let alone leave it in its dust. The USHL is pretty small/lean. Maybe if it really expands, but the numbers of feeders into something like the USHL (well and really the USNTDP) isn't particularly large compared to Canada. The NCAA is still pretty reliant on Canadians to fill all the various spots (61.8 % American, 29.8 % Canadian in most recent year) even with the Americans by and large saying no to the 60-team(!) CHL in modern times. So there are still presently just way more Canadians in the "elite track" NHL feeder hockey. The age groups that people think may shift that are too young to really assess just yet, but if there are a bunch more Americans and a bunch less Canadians, I'm not entirely sure where they are all gonna go.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Yes it is
It is too expensive
Population immigrants
Global warming
End of story

 

[WarriorofTime]

Except this question was asked in 95 as well. In fact, the topic has been discussed as far back as the 90's.

Except nobody would say Hockey in Canada was "dying" in any sense in 1995. They might have said "more Americans are playing hockey and with the higher population, they will likely make substantial headway", which is obviously precisely what did happen. But Hockey in Canada was only expanding in 1995.

 

[Staniowski]

Hockey is still very strong in Canada, very popular. It's certainly not dying, or anything close to it.

I think part of the perception of a big problem comes from the improvements in other countries, especially the States.

Currently, about 14% of Canadian boys play minor hockey. This is a very healthy number. In comparison, about 1.2% of American boys play minor hockey. With the total number of boys in the US being between 9 and 10 times larger, the US is fairly close to the minor hockey population of Canada (Canada is still between 10% and 20% larger).

If the US surpasses Canada in the number of boys playing hockey - say if they get to 2% of American boys playing hockey - this is not a bad thing; obviously it's a very good thing, and would have no bearing on hockey "dying" in Canada.

If you compare minor hockey in Canada currently to past generations, there are both good things happening now, and things that can be improved upon. For example, the pipeline works more efficiently now that it ever has. On the other hand, it would certainly be a good thing if boys from recent immigrant families played hockey in bigger numbers and that might happen.

But the numbers are currently very good, and Canada is still producing many of the superstars of the sport.

 

[Three On Zero]

"Low key." Either something is racist or it's not. Just tossing words for the sake of it? "Racist" has lost its meaning thanks to it being used to combat any message the listener disagrees with. Eyes do not lie. When the video of that kid Canucks fan surfaced, showing him cursing out Hyman and Campbell, how many non-Indians could you count? To say the Canucks have a large amount of Indian fans is as about as racist as saying the Oilers have a majority of white fans. It'a just facts.

This also ain’t it.

Using a video of a group of hockey fans to try and say why hockey is dying contradicts the entire argument.

 

[DingerMcSlapshot]

Yes. Slowly but surely.

 

[Drytoast]

I think this thread is devolving into thinly veiled criticism of immigrants and Trudeau. The cost of living has skyrocketed globally. Not just in Canada. Why is that so hard for people to understand?

Western Canada is producing more elite talent than ever before. In a ten year period they produced Bedard, The Iginlas, McKenna, DuPont, Makar, Celebrini etc.

The cost of living has skyrocket in most western nations. Eastern? Not so much. You put some of that blame on any western nations that's tried mass immigration as that's just a raw numbers game of supply and demand.