Is hockey dying in Quebec ?

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

The sport is absurdly rich to play anywhere, this is nothing new. Also using Marchessault when the guy just won the Conn Smythe and was a 40 goal scorer is a bad way to make your argument

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

A future where hockey is third or fourth in Canada seems inevitable.

Basketball has already surpassed hockey for under 20s. Both in participation and viewership.

Soccer is right there too. Participation is ahead and viewership is slowly rising.

Football is rapidly approaching hockey in viewership but is way behind in participation.

It should really be treated as a crisis by the NHL.

I do not think so. Canadian sport experiences the same effects as American or French sport. Communitarianism. It will always be a popular sport among European and Asian communities.

 

[Jyrki]

Not only has hockey itself become comparatively very expensive relative to other sports, but because the sport has such a high skill floor there's all sorts of private development camps and coaching that gives kids with resources a serious leg up because of all the equipment and fundamentals they need to actually start learning how to play hockey.

Around the world, kids who grow up in slums can still showcase raw talent in sports like soccer and basketball, and get scouted into a youth club straight from the streets. That's literally impossible in hockey - you need structure and a shrinking number of Canadians can afford to participate in it.

 

[WarriorofTime]

This used to be the case in Canada but it's rapidly changing. Kids are increasingly moving to Europe in high school to be part of soccer programs.

Adult rec soccer is now outpacing hockey in participation in hockey mad Regina.

MLS viewership is steadily increasing. Premier League is on TSN now. And the Canadian Premier league weathered covid, grew from 7 to 8 teams, and is looking to grow to 12 by 2030.

The money being put into soccer is exploding in Canada

I imagine immigration plays a big part in that as well. Canada has one of the highest immigration rates in the world, and many of those people are bringing that aspect of their culture (soccer popularity) with them. I wonder if sports like cricket will explode in popularity as well with all the South Asian immigrants.

 

[jigglysquishy]

I imagine immigration plays a big part in that as well. Canada has one of the highest immigration rates in the world, and many of those people are bringing that aspect of their culture (soccer popularity) with them. I wonder if sports like cricket will explode in popularity as well with all the South Asian immigrants.

Cricket is definitely exploding here.

Our newest residential subdivision had a cricket pitch and soccer field, but no hockey rink.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Canada as a whole has done a terrible job of encouraging immigrant groups to play hockey.

Elementary schools here are maybe 25% South Asian and 40-50% non white. But youth hockey is still 90%+ white.

There's been lots of growth of hockey in Indigenous communities in the last 20 years though.

 

[thegazelle]

I would suggest that the issue of lower hockey output of players is not just isolated to Quebec; it's down across the board, as far as I can see, and this is talking with friends and families in other provinces, in both rural and urban ridings.

Where I live there used to be a fairly decent sized hockey association in our area. Been around since the 1960s. Even 10 years ago, enrollment and signups of players were down. The biggest reason at the time was not necessarily cost (though it certainly is a big factor now), but it was the prevalence of other sports, particularly the emergence of improving basketball and soccer teams in Canada, and the commensurate interest from kids due to that. Once parents figured it was cheaper to put their kids in other sports rather than the constant upgrading of hockey gear, the inordinate fees to put their kids into hockey plus fairly limited times of play (not to mention braving colder weather conditions), what was once something many kids did, is not relegated to families with deeper pockets.

I can't imagine with inflation and higher prices for everything being the way they are today, how that would not have an adverse impact. My oldest son played hockey throughout his childhood. My youngest son has no interest. Many younger kids are (sadly) more drawn to online video games or doing other activities with their friends. If their friends aren't playing hockey and have little to no interest, it will be hard for them to be an social outlier. That's just the trend nowadays in terms of activities. I think also that cost (of playing, of gear, of gas, etc.) has a bigger impact on parental decision making than previous.

Add to that the insane cost of exposing your kids to an NHL game in Canada - forget the Toronto market - other Canadian markets have tickets that are priced beyond what most people can afford. If you can, that's great. But a lot of people can't. And given that TV patterns have changed - less people have cable by choice and many people choose to only watch on demand on streaming mediums - what was once a family tradition Saturday night to watch the local CBC HNIC broadcast - well, that's no longer a given. With less exposure and other things to take the young person's attention, the allure of playing hockey was not what it once was.

Perhaps Quebec may have other social-political issues at play affecting hockey involvement, but I wouldn't know enough to speak on those topics.

 

[Jee]

Hockey Québec is doing nothing about it, the sport is barely being promoted now.

It's really sad.

 

[MMC]

And yet every time expansion comes up, people act like they’re owed a franchise in Quebec City just by virtue of their existence

 

[jigglysquishy]

Where I live there used to be a fairly decent sized hockey association in our area. Been around since the 1960s. Even 10 years ago, enrollment and signups of players were down. The biggest reason at the time was not necessarily cost (though it certainly is a big factor now), but it was the prevalence of other sports, particularly the emergence of improving basketball and soccer teams in Canada, and the commensurate interest from kids due to that. Once parents figured it was cheaper to put their kids in other sports rather than the constant upgrading of hockey gear, the inordinate fees to put their kids into hockey plus fairly limited times of play (not to mention braving colder weather conditions), what was once something many kids did, is not relegated to families with deeper pockets.

This is a huge part of it.

When my dad was a kid there was nowhere to play basketball within 100 km. No gymnasium no basketballs. Nothing on TV or radio. But he could walk to 5 outdoor hockey rinks.

It's just a different world now.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Canada as a whole has done of encouraging immigrant groups to play hockey.

Elementary schools here are maybe 25% South Asian and 40-50% non white. But youth hockey is still 90%+ white.

There's been lots of growth of hockey in Indigenous communities in the last 20 years though.

How does immigration to Quebec stack up against the rest of the provinces?

 

[66871]

A future where hockey is third or fourth in Canada seems inevitable.

Basketball has already surpassed hockey for under 20s. Both in participation and viewership.

Soccer is right there too. Participation is ahead and viewership is slowly rising.

Football is rapidly approaching hockey in viewership but is way behind in participation.

It should really be treated as a crisis by the NHL.

Maybe Bettman will relocate some teams to Canada to 'expand the league's footprint' or whatever his reasoning was back in the 90s.

 

[thegazelle]

This is a huge part of it.

When my dad was a kid there was nowhere to play basketball within 100 km. No gymnasium no basketballs. Nothing on TV or radio. But he could walk to 5 outdoor hockey rinks.

It's just a different world now.

Very true. When I was a kid in Edmonton, right behind our school there was a public outdoor rink. It was not top of the line and wasn't really maintained. Just wooden boards and ice which someone from the community or even the city, managed. Right after school kids would go home, grab their sticks, a puck and play shinny. No pads, not even helmets. Teams were made up of whoever showed up. As kids saw this and got their parents to go to the local Woodwards or Woolco or Canadian Tire to get a cheap Sher-wood wooden stick and puck, and borrow someone's skates, they could participate. There were no fees, no pretension - anyone who showed up ready to play. Availability of an outdoor rink was a huge incentive. Kids also as a whole enjoyed being outdoors a lot more as there wasn't much to do indoors. Plus the time at the rink became a social connection.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Hockey is dying all over Canada. It's a rich kids sport.

This argument makes me laugh. Canada is a rich country. Average families have houses, cars, computers, game consoles, phones, app subscriptions but no money for a boy to play hockey.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

A future where hockey is third or fourth in Canada seems inevitable.

Basketball has already surpassed hockey for under 20s. Both in participation and viewership.

Soccer is right there too. Participation is ahead and viewership is slowly rising.

Football is rapidly approaching hockey in viewership but is way behind in participation.

It should really be treated as a crisis by the NHL.

The NHL still refuse to see that though. For them, growing the game = expanding in the USA and not strengthen and consolidate the canadian markets.

 

[Rafafouille]

We're broke and can't afford hockey. That's pretty much it.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

This argument makes me laugh. Canada is a rich country. Average families have houses, cars, computers, game consoles, phones, app subscriptions but no money for a boy to play hockey.

Hockey is a very significant cost in Canada.

 

[Rafafouille]

This argument makes me laugh. Canada is a rich country. Average families have houses, cars, computers, game consoles, phones, app subscriptions but no money for a boy to play hockey.

It's about 40 000$ a year for AAA hockey. It's not even in the same stratosphere as regular household expenses.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Hockey is a very significant cost in Canada.

Salaries are very high in Canada.

 

[abax44]

It's about 40 000$ a year for AAA hockey. It's not even in the same stratosphere as regular household expenses.

But they have cell phones!!!!

It really is all about the $$$, and probably concussions, to some extent, too.

Salaries are very high in Canada.

Can I have one please?

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Salaries are very high in Canada.

- Average salary in Canada is 70,000$

- Average cost for 1 kid in hockey is 5,000$

7% of your annual net income! This is crazy expensive.

Average Salary in Canada - Average Salary

Average make an average of $70,000 / year in Canada, or $35.90 / hr. Try Talent.com's salary tool and search thousands of salaries in your industry.

ca.talent.com

How Much Does It Cost To Play Ice Hockey? - FloHockey

Playing competitive hockey at any level comes with many expenses, from equipment to ice time to travel. Jacob Messing breaks it down.

www.flohockey.tv

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

It's about 40 000$ a year for AAA hockey. It's not even in the same stratosphere as regular household expenses.

40,000?!? Source please.

Never seen a talented U15 player with a promise of a pro career quit hockey because his parents were poor.

 

[jigglysquishy]

40,000?!? Source please.

Never seen a talented U15 player with a promise of a pro career quit hockey because his parents were poor.

I knew probably 5 kids growing up that quit for financial reasons. All were better than kids that ended up in the WHL.

Best goalie I ever played with quit because his parents didn't want the cost anymore.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

- Average salary in Canada is 70,000$

- Average cost for 1 kid in hockey is 5,000$

7% of your annual net income! This is crazy expensive.

Average Salary in Canada - Average Salary

Average make an average of $70,000 / year in Canada, or $35.90 / hr. Try Talent.com's salary tool and search thousands of salaries in your industry.

ca.talent.com

How Much Does It Cost To Play Ice Hockey? - FloHockey

Playing competitive hockey at any level comes with many expenses, from equipment to ice time to travel. Jacob Messing breaks it down.

www.flohockey.tv

- Average salary in France is under 20,000$.

I knew probably 5 kids growing up that quit for financial reasons. All were better than kids that ended up in the WHL.

Best goalie I ever played with quit because his parents didn't want the cost anymore.

Names ?

 

[thegazelle]

This argument makes me laugh. Canada is a rich country. Average families have houses, cars, computers, game consoles, phones, app subscriptions but no money for a boy to play hockey.

The presumption here is that people are able to afford all this. What the trends don't indicate is that underlying many of these "keeping up with the joneses" appearances, people are up to their eyeballs in debt, in order to create this semblance of a "successful middle class life".

I saw this dynamic at work years ago. A young sales rep from the Kitchener office came in, in a BMW and wore expensive suits. Had an expensive watch. Always ate out. Bought the ladies at the office small gifts.

What no one knew was that the guy lived in a dingy basement apartment, he was in such debt on the BMW that after 8-9 months, he defaulted on his payments. All his suits were bought on credit card, which were maxxed. Same with all the gift cards and such he gave the ladies. Every single one of his lunchtime meals was on his credit card which was maxxed.

Just because it looks like someone can afford all these things doesn't mean that they are. In some cases it is purely to appease appearances and appear to others that they are "successful"