Is Gardiner actually that bad

[Jozay]

Gardiner is prone to making mistakes and low IQ plays in his own zone, but despite that he's still a very effective dman.

 

[BostonBruins11]

His numbers are almost identical to the previous two seasons. At some point you can't blame every Leaf that is producing offense on being a product of the Leafs producing offense. Jake is a big part (see: contributor) of this offense.

I'm not disputing what he brings offensively. It's what he lacks in his own zone: sustained pressure, ability to break up cycles, 1 on 1's , 2 on 1's, net presence etc. (something Krug isn't the greatest at either fyi but thank god he has Carlo/Miller to cover his a$$) .

IMO Gardiner needs to be paired up with a "modern" defensive defensemen. (Modern DD: a shutdown D who can skate/keep up with today game and has average stick-handling/good first pass)

 

[Nizdizzle]

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Jake lost a lot of the fanbase in game 7 last year and was never going to get them back....It is what it is, he isn't going to change as a player at this point. 90% of his game is really really good but that 10% left over is absolutely terrible. Just lack of effort plays in his own end that lead to goals against.

 

[ijuka]

No offense but those numbers are inflated because of the Leafs great offense.

His numbers have consistently been great, it's not just this season. And it's funny how the numbers don't get inflated for players like Zaitsev, right? In fact, how about you consider that Gardiner contributes to said offense?

 

[BostonBruins11]

His numbers have consistently been great, it's not just this season. And it's funny how the numbers don't get inflated for players like Zaitsev, right? In fact, how about you consider that Gardiner contributes to said offense?

i'll just copy/past my response again:

I'm not disputing what he brings offensively. It's what he lacks in his own zone: sustained pressure, ability to break up cycles, 1 on 1's , 2 on 1's, net presence etc. (something Krug isn't the greatest at either fyi but thank god he has Carlo/Miller to cover his a$$) .

IMO Gardiner needs to be paired up with a "modern" defensive defensemen. (Modern DD: a shutdown D who can skate/keep up with today game and has average stick-handling/good first pass)

 

[tacogeoff]

He really isn't that bad but has fallen into the scapegoat role for the leaf fans. Id take him on the Jets any day.

 

[LeafFever]

Gardiner is one of the strangest DMen in the NHL. His advanced stats are downright elite and indicate he's very good defensively. His issue is, he plays on the Leafs and he tends to make massive errors at the worst time.
He's a good #3 D imo. Leafs will have to move on from him for many reasons though.

 

[LeafFever]

He really isn't that bad but has fallen into the scapegoat role for the leaf fans. Id take him on the Jets any day.

Well yes because of how he played in game 7. I am not a fan of booing him, but of all players on that roster right now, it's understandble.

 

[BonMorrison]

If this was NHL 19, he'd have high stats on everything but his poise would be like 60.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Gardiner is one of the strangest DMen in the NHL. His advanced stats are downright elite and indicate he's very good defensively. His issue is, he plays on the Leafs and he tends to make massive errors at the worst time.
He's a good #3 D imo. Leafs will have to move on from him for many reasons though.

I used to dub this "the jake muzzin effect."

So many years in a row when people were dumping on DD they'd point to muzzin and suggest drew wasn't even the best on his own team, but they didn't account for 1. that most of muzzin's minutes were the sheltered ones with drew because DD played the harder d minutes with Regehr/Mitchell/Scuderi and 2. Advanced stats aren't great at capturing self-sabotaging gaffes because they're more about raw volume than quality.

I know Gardiner has excelled in a #2-#3 role and he's got a similar thing going on where those gaffes stop him from being a reliable top guy but he has all the skill to play 20 minutes in an offensive leaning role, people just need to accept he is what he is and he'll have some moments with an incredibly high ceiling and others where everyone will want to Old Yeller him.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Dermott should already be playing more than him.

 

[tony d]

I went with Option 2.

 

[zoA]

He always comes out on top when it’s over a large volume of games. That said, he’s such a gamble in the playoffs since you don’t know which version you’re getting. He’s had stretches where he’s absolutely dominant at both ends of the ice and then he’ll casually make the dumbest play you’ve ever seen. If the Leafs had a much stronger defence, I’d be very happy having him, but they’re already a bit weak and inconsistent as it is.

 

[mphmiles]

I'm not disputing what he brings offensively. It's what he lacks in his own zone: sustained pressure, ability to break up cycles, 1 on 1's , 2 on 1's, net presence etc. (something Krug isn't the greatest at either fyi but thank god he has Carlo/Miller to cover his a$$) .

IMO Gardiner needs to be paired up with a "modern" defensive defensemen. (Modern DD: a shutdown D who can skate/keep up with today game and has average stick-handling/good first pass)

The leafs have given up fewer goals/60 with him on the ice each of the last 3 seasons, than any other top 4 DMan on the team. 2.1/2.5/2.3, respectively. (rielly is at 3.5/3.1/3.2 btw)

He's very good in his own zone. His mistakes are just very visible and magnified because of the game 7 mistake last year.

 

[1specter]

He's not, he gets routinely underrated by both Leaf fans and league wide. Very solid #2-3 guy who can play a lot of minutes, and becomes more valuable down the late season stretch as the rest of the league gets tired. Dude has amazing cardio.

If he was actually awful, he would bleed goals and shots against, yet he's routinely one of the best on the Leafs every year. His impact on both goal differential and shot differential are almost always positive.

 

[Morgs]

Gardiner is great, you just have to ignore the ignorant Leaf fans and people who don't get "it".

I don't like your poll answers though.

 

[Morgs]

Dermott should already be playing more than him.

Only because Dermott should be beside one of him or Rielly in the top-4. Not because he's significantly better.

 

[Captain Mountain]

No. He's not great defensively, but his effect on transition and the cycle makes up for it. He could play on your top pair if he got a good enough defensive partner with him. He's not a number one, but he's really good.

 

[Red Piller]

The leafs have given up fewer goals/60 with him on the ice each of the last 3 seasons, than any other top 4 DMan on the team. 2.1/2.5/2.3, respectively. (rielly is at 3.5/3.1/3.2 btw)

He's very good in his own zone. His mistakes are just very visible and magnified because of the game 7 mistake last year.

He sucks and will cost you a playoff series yet again. He is easy to exploited on the forecheck and panic coughs it up 60 percent of the time. If you truly believe he is reliable toss him out there with a minute left to protect leads in elimination games and see how that goes.

Look. I don’t mind him as a player but you get a certain length of leash in this game. If this was one of the few times he’s cost the team then no big deal. But it isn’t. This is an all the time thing. He has no more goodwill left from a lot of fans and rightfully so.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Gardiner seems to be one of those players who is good to great 95% of the time, but the 5% of the time when he's bad, he's REALLY bad and makes the absolute dumbest mistakes you can possibly make.

 

[mphmiles]

He sucks and will cost you a playoff series yet again. He is easy to exploited on the forecheck and panic coughs it up 60 percent of the time. If you truly believe he is reliable toss him out there with a minute left to protect leads in elimination games and see how that goes.

Look. I don’t mind him as a player but you get a certain length of leash in this game. If this was one of the few times he’s cost the team then no big deal. But it isn’t. This is an all the time thing. He has no more goodwill left from a lot of fans and rightfully so.

I'm not a leafs fan.

If the bolded were true the leafs would be giving up way more goals with him on the ice than they do. They don't.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Dermott should already be playing more than him.

Someone should be playing on the right side. Rielly, Gardiner and Dermott are the Leafs 3 best dmen and there's a gap to the next one. Dermott has certainly earned a bigger role (even though he made a no-look pass from behind his own net that took a miracle not to end up in the back of our net and was as bad of a play as Gardiner's in the same game that everyone seems to be glossing over), but man the right side of our D needs an upgrade

 

[weaponomega]

As a top 2 defenseman yes. He's a great skater, with decent offensive skills who is playing above his level. He probably should be a #4/5 guy.

 

[biotk]

Gardiner makes more than his fair share of mistakes....unless Sparks is in net (because when he is 100% of the mistakes are made by Sparks).