Is Crosby one of the top Five NHL players of the last 50 years?

[Jets4Life]

There is much talk about Crosby going down as one of the top five NHL players (post-expansion) if the Penguins win the Stanley Cup again. However, I would not go that far. Where does Crosby rank, in regards to the post-expansion NHL?

Crosby Career Achievements:

• 2 Stanley Cups
  1 Conn Smythe Trophy
  2 Hart Trophies
  2 Art Ross Trophies
  2 Olympic God Medals
  1 World Championship
  1 World Cup
  2 Rocket Richard Trophies
  4 time First All-Star

My top 10:

1. Gretzky
2. Lemieux
3. Orr
4. Messier
5. Jagr
6. Crosby
7. Hasek
8. Lidstrom
9. Roy
10. Brodeur

Please don't be too critical of my list, as I made it up on a whim.
Thoughts?

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[Stud Muffin]

Best of all time, IMO
The players of the 80's can't compare to today's players, especially the goalies who probably wouldn't make the AHL based on awful technique.

 

[Blank]

So 1967 ->

Bourque?
Trottier?
Sakic?
Yzerman?

Crosby is knocking to get to the top 10 but he ain't there yet... Those are just the first few names that came to mind.. I'm sure there are a lot more competing for that top 10 spot.

 

[NickyFotiu]

If no Howe is included than Crosby is in my mix for top 5. In regards to your list I would have Ray Bourque somewhere in the Messier Jagr area and ahead of Lidstrom.

 

[Felidae]

Besides the obvious 3. I would also certainly have Hasek and Bourque ahead, with Jagr, Lidstrom, Roy, Crosby competing for the next spot.

 

[Regal]

Best of all time, IMO
The players of the 80's can't compare to today's players, especially the goalies who probably wouldn't make the AHL based on awful technique.

Modern technique wouldn't be as effective with 80s pads. Goalies adjust.

 

[daver]

There is much talk about Crosby going down as one of the top five NHL players (post-expansion) if the Penguins win the Stanley Cup again. However, I would not go that far. Where does Crosby rank, in regards to the post-expansion NHL?

Crosby Career Achievements:

• 2 Stanley Cups
  1 Conn Smythe Trophy
  2 Hart Trophies
  2 Art Ross Trophies
  2 Olympic God Medals
  1 World Championship
  1 World Cup
  2 Rocket Richard Trophies
  4 time First All-Star

My top 10:

1. Gretzky
2. Lemieux
3. Orr
4. Messier
5. Jagr
6. Crosby
7. Hasek
8. Lidstrom
9. Roy
10. Brodeur

Please don't be too critical of my list, as I made it up on a whim.
Thoughts?

He is the #3 centre by now, and I would have him ahead of Jagr too, so the # 3 forward. So #4 on your list.

 

[ArchAngel55]

Having Malkin has a huge factor in his legacy in my opinion. They had 2 of the top 5 players in the league (him being one of them) for his career. It wasn't like one of them played wing and they were on the same line. It is extremely hard to defend against 2 guys who can put the team on their backs. Crosby would not have the same career without Malkin. I am not trying to dump on Crosby. Just saying Malkin is a huge part.

 

[blundluntman]

1. Gretzky
2. Orr
3. Lemieux
4. Hasek
5. Bourque
6. Roy
7. Crosby
8. Messier
9. Potvin
10. Jagr

When it's all said and done, he very well may fit in right at 5 (don't see him beating Hasek honestly.) But as of right now, nope.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Best of all time, IMO
The players of the 80's can't compare to today's players, especially the goalies who probably wouldn't make the AHL based on awful technique.

Issac Newton what an idiot he couldn't do the math we do today

 

[daver]

Having Malkin has a huge factor in his legacy in my opinion. They had 2 of the top 5 players in the league (him being one of them) for his career. It wasn't like one of them played wing and they were on the same line. It is extremely hard to defend against 2 guys who can put the team on their backs. Crosby would not have the same career without Malkin. I am not trying to dump on Crosby. Just saying Malkin is a huge part.

You realize that 4 of the top 6 players on the OP's list were teammates right?

Interested to hear how you think Crosby's career plays out without Malkin. He has played some of his best hockey when Malkin has been out or underperforming throughout his career.

 

[member 51464]

Having Malkin has a huge factor in his legacy in my opinion. They had 2 of the top 5 players in the league (him being one of them) for his career. It wasn't like one of them played wing and they were on the same line. It is extremely hard to defend against 2 guys who can put the team on their backs. Crosby would not have the same career without Malkin. I am not trying to dump on Crosby. Just saying Malkin is a huge part.

When both have been healthy, what percent of the time was Crosby facing the top D-pairing of the opposition over Malkin? If anything, it is the inverse, and Malkin getting to be a #1C in terms of talent playing against 2nd-pairing D for the majority of his career that has been a boon for one of them.

 

[KBobs]

A thread similar to this has been active for a while now... not sure why this one was created.

 

[Passchendaele]

When both have been healthy, what percent of the time was Crosby facing the top D-pairing of the opposition over Malkin? If anything, it is the inverse, and Malkin getting to be a #1C in terms of talent playing against 2nd-pairing D for the majority of his career that has been a boon for one of them.

Malkin played/plays better when Crosby is out so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

 

[Seanaconda]

There is much talk about Crosby going down as one of the top five NHL players (post-expansion) if the Penguins win the Stanley Cup again. However, I would not go that far. Where does Crosby rank, in regards to the post-expansion NHL?

Crosby Career Achievements:

• 2 Stanley Cups
  1 Conn Smythe Trophy
  2 Hart Trophies
  2 Art Ross Trophies
  2 Olympic God Medals
  1 World Championship
  1 World Cup
  2 Rocket Richard Trophies
  4 time First All-Star

My top 10:

1. Gretzky
2. Lemieux
3. Orr
4. Messier
5. Jagr
6. Crosby
7. Hasek
8. Lidstrom
9. Roy
10. Brodeur

Please don't be too critical of my list, as I made it up on a whim.
Thoughts?

Idk if I think messier and Jagr should be top 5

 

[mcnorth]

Having Malkin has a huge factor in his legacy in my opinion. They had 2 of the top 5 players in the league (him being one of them) for his career. It wasn't like one of them played wing and they were on the same line. It is extremely hard to defend against 2 guys who can put the team on their backs. Crosby would not have the same career without Malkin. I am not trying to dump on Crosby. Just saying Malkin is a huge part.

I have similar but slightly different perspective. As far as I'm concerned, Crosby makes Malkin. What Malkin does is make the Pittsburgh Penguins lethal - but Malkin doesn't make Crosby. However, Crosby does make Malkin. Crosby has always done the heavy-lifting facing the top pairing D and any opposition's top-line defensive forwards. Teams plan for Crosby first and they always have and probably always will. Leaving Malkin with whatever second wave of strategy and defensive talent the opposing team can muster.

So Crosby owes some of the team success that pads his resume to Malkin's ability to dominate second lines, but Malkin has one of the best jobs in the world playing center behind Crosby on the depth chart. And, to Malkin's credit, he's certainly taken advantage of that. If Pittsburgh ever moves Malkin (which would b foolish) it'd certainly be interesting to see how successful Malkin will be once he's the 'center' of attention.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Best of all time, IMO
The players of the 80's can't compare to today's players, especially the goalies who probably wouldn't make the AHL based on awful technique.

Do you think being 6" shorter, 40 lbs lighter and having equipment half the size and twice the weight might have anything to do with it?

 

[Montreal Shadow]

Best of all time, IMO
The players of the 80's can't compare to today's players, especially the goalies who probably wouldn't make the AHL based on awful technique.

Not sure if sarcasm.

 

[mcnorth]

Malkin played/plays better when Crosby is out so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

No. You think those numbers would be the same over the length of Malkin's career? As soon as Crosby is in the line-up he gets the top opponents - that says all you need to know.

 

[daver]

Malkin played/plays better when Crosby is out so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Like all other great talents, their numbers speak for themselves. No reason to think they do any better or worse without each other.

The matchup thing is relevant in the playoffs.

 

[mcnorth]

I'd rank Crosby ahead of Jagr and Messier.

Gretzky
Lemiux
Orr

- Howe is out b/c last 50 yrs thing, right?

Now, for me, Crosby, Yzerman....

Hard to judge based on position vs D and goalies.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Gretzky
Orr
Lemieux
Lidstrom
Bourque

Crosby is ahead of Messier at this point and probably Jagr

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

There is much talk about Crosby going down as one of the top five NHL players (post-expansion) if the Penguins win the Stanley Cup again. However, I would not go that far. Where does Crosby rank, in regards to the post-expansion NHL?

Crosby Career Achievements:

• 2 Stanley Cups
  1 Conn Smythe Trophy
  2 Hart Trophies
  2 Art Ross Trophies
  2 Olympic God Medals
  1 World Championship
  1 World Cup
  2 Rocket Richard Trophies
  4 time First All-Star

My top 10:

1. Gretzky
2. Lemieux
3. Orr
4. Messier
5. Jagr
6. Crosby
7. Hasek
8. Lidstrom
9. Roy
10. Brodeur

Please don't be too critical of my list, as I made it up on a whim.
Thoughts?

Gretzky
Orr
Lemieux
are my top 3. There are valid arguments to change the order any way you like. I'll stick with that but they are very close.
Then comes Messier and a few others who could arguably be on the same tier. Crosby isn't one of them.
Then there is a tier with, probably 20-25 names including Crosby. They could be arranged in many different orders as they are too near equal to get a definitive one.

He is the top player in the world right now and has been for the last 10-12 years. That is about all we can say with any certainty. Top x players of the last y years lists are just a way to start an endless argument.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Best of all time, IMO
The players of the 80's can't compare to today's players, especially the goalies who probably wouldn't make the AHL based on awful technique.

That is interesting you say that because I believe a case could be made that some of Patrick Roys (who started in the 80's) numbers got better as the years went along.

 

[PensandCaps]

Crosby is ahead of Messier quite easily. And barley ahead of Jagr. He's top 5 All time behind Bossy/orr/gretzky/Mario.