Is clutch something that is a skill set and if it is do our players have enough of it?

[ruaware41]

I honestly don’t know how to feel about this or if you just put the best team forward based on usual performance and not worry about clutch time. What made me wonder about this was watching the highlights from Flames and Stars game 7 and seeing Matthew Tkachuk go forehand roof on the glove side top right corner with barely any space and without taking much time to set up his shot.

Then Gaudreau in overtime went forehand roof top left blocker side from a sharp angle.

I’ve seen a guy like Nylander or
Marner take these shots quite a few times in the playoffs and in my head I just know I’d be hearing “just missed the net” “just over the net” etc. Now Tkachuk and Gaudrea aren’t really that much better at shooting the puck than Nylander and Marner…but do you think in that exact same spot for the Leafs in a game 7 on the exact same play a Nylander pots that one or “just goes wide?” Because to me the answer is a clear no.

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[BayStBullies]

Dallas <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Tampa

 

[Stephen]

Gaudreau isn’t traditionally a clutch player so I don’t want to hold him up as an example. But a lot of game 7 goals are simply greasy goals. Rewind to Gary Valk tripping at the Penguin net in 1999 if you’re sick of Nick Paul references.

The Leafs had that curtain call PP and they were still trying to make medium speed skill plays. Why was Matthews put on the point in the first place and why was he looking everything off? It’s not like the angle and traffic gets better as you move down the wall. Blast it and trust someone will hunt the puck in the crowd. They always retreat to the perimeter like that’s where it’s safe to hold the puck.

 

[kevsh]

The Leafs lack of finish is not about being clutch or not, it's a team-wide mentality.

In the final game of the past 3 series their opponents each simply crowded the front of their own net and the Leafs forwards were either incapable or unwilling to break through that.

Playoff series in general start off kind of wide open, high scoring, physical then settle down into tight checking games where teams that can adapt, drive the net and capitalize on mistakes usually prevail. It's no surprise then that as each of the past two series at least show, once things tighten up the Leafs simply stop scoring almost entirely. (With Columbus it was basically the whole series as outside of game 2 Toronto scored ZERO ES strength goals in the other 4 games combined.)

This to me is primarily a fault of both players and the coaching staff who seem to have selective amnesia about the previous year, about how and why their stars (okay, everybody) were completely nullified in the final games of those series. So they went into game 7 against Tampa obviously unprepared or, again, unwilling to fight through all the block shotsed and a permanently crowded slot.

So when I hear "this team is close", I shudder. Close to what? Winning a single round? After 6 years, that's the bar now? The minimal acceptable standard to prove they "get it". No, they don't get it and for the last 3 years in particular they've shown that when the series comes down to one game, Montreal, Columbus and Tampa Bay "get it", but the Leafs still do not.

Sheldon? Give Trotz a call and if he's willing to sign, fire Keefe. See above for my reasoning.

Dubas? Shanny makes it clear simply "tweaking" again this Summer isn't acceptable. The team (not just the core) still hasn't gotten it done and a message must be sent. Other threads already have very active discussions on who, how and why to move and go after. I see Kyle as a solid GM overall and a young talent that should be kept, but it has to be made clear to him that stubbornly sticking to his alternate blueprint for playoff success, which has been a total failure, is not an option.

Shanny? He's safe I assume because MLSE is still making money hand over fist. Sure extra playoff revenue would be nice but I get the feeling that they're simply leaving it all in the hockey people's hands, for better or worse, and letting them - Shanny that is - chart the course and make the tough calls.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Leafs simply have zero luck. Gaudreau’s goal is a prime example. A terrible angle for a shot that miraculously goes in. Meanwhile Leafs have to execute at a high level for every bloody goal they score in the playoffs. Their tendency to look off prime shooting opportunities also pisses me off though, and a goal like the one that won Calgary the series is what makes it so frustrating to see our players skate themselves out of shooting positions looking for a pass. f*** off, just shoot the f***ing thing.

 

[ruaware41]

Leafs simply have zero luck. Gaudreau’s goal is a prime example. A terrible angle for a shot that miraculously goes in. Meanwhile Leafs have to execute at a high level for every bloody goal they score in the playoffs. Their tendency to look off prime shooting opportunities also pisses me off though, and a goal like the one that won Calgary the series is what makes it so frustrating to see our players skate themselves out of shooting positions looking for a pass. f*** off, just throw it in there!

what about the Tkachuk one? To me that just looked like calmness in the eyes of elimination

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

what about the Tkachuk one? To me that just looked like calmness in the eyes of elimination

Leafs did have a goal like that, but then got a penalty on something no ref ever calls so tough shit for Tavares and us. Still plenty of time do something else but Tampa got two off the rush goals where blatant interference helped them and shut us down the rest of the way. Oettinger was better than Vasilevsky in round 1 but Dallas as a team is much weaker, especially at defending.

 

[ruaware41]

Leafs did have a goal like that, but then got a penalty on something no ref ever calls so tough shit for Tavares and us. Still plenty of time do something else but Tampa got two off the rush goals where blatant interference helped them and shut us down the rest of the way. Oettinger was better than Vasilevsky in round 1 but Dallas as a team is much weaker, especially at defending.

Idk man Tavares had all the space and time in the world not that it wasn’t placed well. Obviously you still have to do that. The way Tkachuk took that puck and shot let it off in an instant perfectly placed just screamed someone who can turn up in big game situations. As much as I like Nylander and Marner and maaaybe Matthews I’m not sure any of them pot that with that little time and space. A good example was Nylander’s breakaway in game 7. It’s the Leafs. Ofc he was going to miss.

 

[Folignos Helmet]

Tkachuk was invisible in that series until that goal, including multiple other opportunities to be clutch.
And his history would also suggest, he doesn't rise to the occasion.

I think there are people who are clutch or are winners, and we have none of them.
Matthews won U18, nothing after that, first place Swiss team bounced in first round.
Tavares a couple WJ titles and and Olympic Gold were he didn't play at the end.
Marner and Willie have a done a little better.
You might argue Marner is closest we have to someone with a history of being clutch.

 

[TheRumble]

Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Tavares and Rielly scored every single goal in the final 3 games of the year.

Every single one. Tying goals, game winners, go ahead goals late, goals to get them closer insurance goals etc.

The depth this time around didn't do enough. Outside of Game 3 where they did all the scoring and won the game for us, they were held off the scoresheet for the most part.

It's not about money either, the following Tampa players all make $2 million or less and scored goals: Perry, Hagel, Nick Paul, Maroon.

Tampa won largely on the strength of their powerplay and the fact their minimum wage players outperformed ours outside of Game 3.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Stats for leaf winner take all matches:

Matthews: 5 games, 0 goals, 2 assists
Marner: 5 games, 0 goals, 2 assists
Nylander: 5 games, 1 goal, 2 assists
Tavares: 3 games, 1 goal, 0 assists.

There is a very VERY real clutch problem from our core players.

 

[MSZ]

Mogilny was so clutch in that 2002 run, 3 goals in two game 7s.

 

[GrizzGreen]

Leafs did have a goal like that, but then got a penalty on something no ref ever calls so tough shit for Tavares and us. Still plenty of time do something else but Tampa got two off the rush goals where blatant interference helped them and shut us down the rest of the way. Oettinger was better than Vasilevsky in round 1 but Dallas as a team is much weaker, especially at defending.

That goal being called back definitely took the wind out of their sails a little. More of an uphill battle afterwards.

Vasi is obviously a great goalie, Oettinger standing on his head aside

 

[PromisedLand]

Stats for leaf winner take all matches:

Matthews: 5 games, 0 goals, 2 assists
Marner: 5 games, 0 goals, 2 assists
Nylander: 5 games, 1 goal, 2 assists
Tavares: 3 games, 1 goal, 0 assists.

There is a very VERY real clutch problem from our core players.

Marner had ZERO shots on goal in Game 7 against tampa. ZERO. No not a typo

Meanwhile....

 

[keonsbitterness]

Marner had ZERO shots on goal in Game 7 against tampa. ZERO. No not a typo

Meanwhile....

Gotta be a fool not to be impressed by that.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Our "elite" offence can't produce when the game is on the line
And then neither do the supporting cast... annually. Even when they mix up.the cast each off season

Marner had ZERO shots on goal in Game 7 against tampa. ZERO. No not a typo

Meanwhile....

Rises to the occasion and no fear of losing

 

[PromisedLand]

Our "elite" offence can't produce when the game is on the line
And then neither do the supporting cast... annually. Even when they mix up.the cast each off season


Rises to the occasion and no fear of losing

Zibanejad was ass entire series. He misses the breakaway and wants to review the chance and this is what happens....



Zibby goes on a tear after that and wins it for the Rangers.

Meanwhile, the leafs cream puffs are coddled. Go figure

 

[fahad203]

Our "elite" offence can't produce when the game is on the line
And then neither do the supporting cast... annually. Even when they mix up.the cast each off season


Rises to the occasion and no fear of losing

That's because we can only play one type of game. Run and gun
We have no board presence, we dont' crash the net enough

Florida got players that were big and gets dirty goals. Verhaege, Marchment and Bennett

Also helps if you got a big shot from the point. Something we haven't had since Dion left
Everyone just collapses front of the net

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Mogilny was so clutch in that 2002 run, 3 goals in two game 7s.

He and Gary Roberts were the only wingers I remember being worth a shit in that run but it's been so long that I could be wrong. It's funny, the Leafs lost to a team coached by Paul Maurice in the 2002 playoffs and a few years later Maurice f***ed the Leafs again by coaching them.

 

[fahad203]

Zibanejad was ass entire series. He misses the breakaway and wants to review the chance and this is what happens....



Zibby goes on a tear after that and wins it for the Rangers.

Meanwhile, the leafs cream puffs are coddled. Go figure

You see that fire Kreider....... who in Leafs has that?

Kreider was probably like, F your analsys. Just go out there and play

He and Gary Roberts were the only wingers I remember being worth a shit in that run but it's been so long that I could be wrong. It's funny, the Leafs lost to a team coached by Paul Maurice in the 2002 playoffs and a few years later Maurice f***ed the Leafs again by coaching them.

Allan MacCuly was at God mode. In Sundin's absence Allan was insanely good along with Roberts. Carried the team
That team always found a hero

Berezin against Philly
Valk against Pens
Cross against Sens

Shane Corson made Yashin his little B****

But those clutch goals don't come, if Cujo / Belfour dont' make clutch saves. Thats where it starts

 

[PromisedLand]

You see that fire Kreider....... who in Leafs has that?

Kreider was probably like, F your analsys. Just go out there and play

I can picture Krieder yelling in the dressing room F the xGF% go out there and get the GF%. The expected bullshit doesnt mean anything. Go score goals.

Leafs leadsrship is as soft as butter. No anger, no frustration.

 

[AllDay28]

Clutch is made up but if people wanna believe it.. have at it

 

[ULF_55]

Idk man Tavares had all the space and time in the world not that it wasn’t placed well. Obviously you still have to do that. The way Tkachuk took that puck and shot let it off in an instant perfectly placed just screamed someone who can turn up in big game situations. As much as I like Nylander and Marner and maaaybe Matthews I’m not sure any of them pot that with that little time and space. A good example was Nylander’s breakaway in game 7. It’s the Leafs. Ofc he was going to miss.

I read the Flames directed about 120 shots at the Dallas net, around 65 made it through.

I don't call that clutch, I call that attrition.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Allan MacCuly was at God mode. In Sundin's absence Allan was insanely good along with Roberts. Carried the team
That team always found a hero

Berezin against Philly
Valk against Pens
Cross against Sens

Shane Corson made Yashin his little B****

But those clutch goals don't come, if Cujo / Belfour dont' make clutch saves. Thats where it starts

Yeah I should have qualified my comment with "worth a shit offensively."

I haven't watched the Leafs in years but a team like the 2002 team would unfortunately never be tolerated today. They'd be suspended to hell and back.

 

[fahad203]

Yeah I should have qualified my comment with "worth a shit offensively."

I haven't watched the Leafs in years but a team like the 2002 team would unfortunately never be tolerated today. They'd be suspended to hell and back.

On the contrary. They weren't exactly the 70s flyers

They had a lot of skills on that team. Berezin, Sundin, Kaberle, McCabe, Mogilny

Kaberle and Mogilny would have deadly 3 on 3

Mats took a lot of abuse along the boards. He would have gotten 10 more per season if he had the space today