Injuries, Salary Cap and the CBA

[Flash Walken]

First, my apologies if this has been talked to death, maybe I'm an idiot, but I still don't really understand how the cap system works in relation to injuries.

Sometimes it helps to use examples, so I'll offer this one out

The Vancouver Canucks are missing key, valuable pieces of their team. Cloutier and 3.5 million per, cooke at 1.5 and allen at I-don't-know per.

How does the bringing up of players from the minors screw with their cap? Are ther exemptions for bigtime injuries or time off?

How does vancouver's only carrying 21 (I believe) skaters change this?

thanks in advance

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[BLONG7]

First, my apologies if this has been talked to death, maybe I'm an idiot, but I still don't really understand how the cap system works in relation to injuries.

Sometimes it helps to use examples, so I'll offer this one out

The Vancouver Canucks are missing key, valuable pieces of their team. Cloutier and 3.5 million per, cooke at 1.5 and allen at I-don't-know per.

How does the bringing up of players from the minors screw with their cap? Are ther exemptions for bigtime injuries or time off?

How does vancouver's only carrying 21 (I believe) skaters change this?

thanks in advance

I think most of us are in the dark on this one, it would be nice if someone had some details on this, that they could share it...I think I did read that when a player misses 10 games or more, then insurance kicks in and pays his salary, and those 10 games salary are not charged vs the cap...not too sure on this...

 

[MountainHawk]

I thought it was the replacement that doesn't count against the cap once the guy he is replacing has missed 10 games. Once the injured guy comes back, then they both start counting against the cap again.

 

[GSC2k2*]

First, my apologies if this has been talked to death, maybe I'm an idiot, but I still don't really understand how the cap system works in relation to injuries.

Sometimes it helps to use examples, so I'll offer this one out

The Vancouver Canucks are missing key, valuable pieces of their team. Cloutier and 3.5 million per, cooke at 1.5 and allen at I-don't-know per.

How does the bringing up of players from the minors screw with their cap? Are ther exemptions for bigtime injuries or time off?

How does vancouver's only carrying 21 (I believe) skaters change this?

thanks in advance

The answer to your question is here:

http://www.nhl.com/nhlhq/cba/index.html

 

[PlayMakers]

The way I understand this, the injured player's salary counts, but the replacement player's salary does not. When the injured player returns to the lineup, the replacement player's salary starts to count against the cap if (and only if) both are kept on the big league roster.

For example, Brian Leetch was recently injured, so Milan Jurcina was called up. Leetch's salary is still on the books but Jurcina's $900k is not, unless Jurcina sticks with the team after Leetch returns, in which case both salaries will count.

 

[Captain Ron]

First, my apologies if this has been talked to death, maybe I'm an idiot, but I still don't really understand how the cap system works in relation to injuries.

Sometimes it helps to use examples, so I'll offer this one out

The Vancouver Canucks are missing key, valuable pieces of their team. Cloutier and 3.5 million per, cooke at 1.5 and allen at I-don't-know per.

How does the bringing up of players from the minors screw with their cap? Are ther exemptions for bigtime injuries or time off?

How does vancouver's only carrying 21 (I believe) skaters change this?

thanks in advance

I already had a long debate with a Canuck fan about this very issue. A player must miss at least 10 games before he can be replaced without the replacements salary counting. Having alot of "short-term" injuries can really hurt a team that does not carry at least a 22-man roster and is close to the cap. If a player is called up before the 10 game mark is reached then he will eat at the teams cap reserve for everyday he is on the roster. So in these instances the team (Vancouver) will have to keep calling up and then sending down players so they can save a few dollars and hope it doesn't come back to bite them in the arse.

 

[sk84fun_dc]

as cited in the NHL CBA FAQ link: "Except in the case of bona fide long-term injury (injuries that sideline a player for a minimum of 24 days and 10 games) to one or more of a club's players, Club payrolls will never be permitted to be below the minimum or in excess of the maximum. Clubs at or near the upper limit that have players who incur a bona fide long-term injury will be entitled to replace up to the full value of the injured player's NHL salary (even if such salary would result in the club's team salary exceeding the upper limit). The "replacement salary" will not count against the club's upper limit but will count against the League-wide players' share. Upon return of the injured player, the team must come into immediate compliance with the requirements of the payroll range."

Does not address whether the team is at the maximum of 23 players, but rather in relation the the cap maximum. The key is that the player has to be out for the 24 days and 10 games. An injury like Cloutier's will likely qualify. Also, as noted the team can exceed the cap in this instance, but the extra dollars do count when determining the league wide players salaries as it relates to the % of revenues, escrow, etc.

 

[Captain Ron]

The way I understand this, the injured player's salary counts, but the replacement player's salary does not. When the injured player returns to the lineup, the replacement player's salary starts to count against the cap if (and only if) both are kept on the big league roster.

For example, Brian Leetch was recently injured, so Milan Jurcina was called up. Leetch's salary is still on the books but Jurcina's $900k is not, unless Jurcina sticks with the team after Leetch returns, in which case both salaries will count.

Actually it was discovered by KDB209 that this is not entirely true. The replacement player's salary will count unless it puts the team over the cap. So if a team is at $38.5 million and a replacement player is called up, his salary would count until the team hit the $39 million mark. Then it would no longer count. But then the team would not have any room left for a trading deadline deal.

I have not confirmed this but I have no reason to doubt it either.

 

[kdb209]

Actually it was discovered by KDB209 that this is not entirely true. The replacement player's salary will count unless it puts the team over the cap. So if a team is at $38.5 million and a replacement player is called up, his salary would count until the team hit the $39 million mark. Then it would no longer count. But then the team would not have any room left for a trading deadline deal.

I have not confirmed this but I have no reason to doubt it either.

I was about to chime in on this, when lo and behold my name comes up - I feel so honored .

I found the section (50.10) dealing with injury replacements and the cap quoted on a blog:

http://www.canuckscorner.com/weblog/nhllog/archives/2005/08/

Now I can't vouch for its authenticity - but it looks pretty damn legit to me and is consistent with everything else I've read.

August 27, 2005
It hurts, It Hurts

A question has come up on a couple of different comment threads with Egil being the latest to raise it:

On the injury front, is a team allowed to designate a player as "injured" and get the cap break right away, or do they need to wait for the player to miss 10 games?

The correct answer is that the team can designate the player as "unfit to play" immediately, but the way it works is not very simple. Article 50.10 deals with injuries and rather than try to translate it, I'll post the applicable parts:

(a) All Player Salary and Bonuses paid to Players on an NHL Active Roster, Injured Reserve or Non Roster that are Unfit to Play -- being either injured or suffering from an illness -- shall be counted against a Club's Upper Limit, Actual Club Salary and Averaged Club Salary, as well as against the Players' Share. Notwithstanding the preceding sentence, a Club shall be permitted to exceed the Upper Limit by virtue of the Bona-Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception set forth in subsection (d) below.

(d) In the event that a Player...becomes unfit to play...such that the Club's physician believes, in his or her opinion that the Player...will be unfit to play for at least (i) 24 calendar days and (ii) 10 NHL Regular Season games and such Club desires to replace such Player, the Club may add an additonal Player or Players to its Active Roster, and the replacement salary and bonuses of such additional Player(s) may increase the Club's Averaged Club Salary to an amount up to and excluding the Upper Limit, solely as, and to the extent and for the duration, set forth below.

(ii) The Player Salary of the Player that has been deemed unfit-to-play shall continue to be counted toward the Club's Averaged Club Salary as well as count against the Players' Share...

(iii) The total replacement salary and bonuses for a Player or Players that have replaced an unfit-to-play player may not in the aggregate exceed the amount of the Player Salary and Bonuses of the unfit-to-play Player who the Club is replacing;

(iv) The replacement salary and bonuses for any Player(s) that replace(s) an unfit Player may be added to the Club's Averaged Club Salary until such time as the Club's Average Salary reaches the Upper Limit. A Club may then exceed the Upper Limit due to the addition of replacement salary and bonuses of Players who have replaced an unfit-to-play Player...

Illustration: A Player with a Player Salary of $1.5 million becomes unfit to play for more than 24 days and 10 games. At the time the Player becomes unfit to play, the Club has an Averaged Club Salary of $39.5 million, and the Upper Limit is $40 million. The Club may replace the unfit-to-play Player with another Player of Players with an aggregate Player Salary and Bonuses of up to $1.5 million. The first $500,000 of such replacement salary and bonuses shall count toward the Club's Average Club Salary, bringing the Averaged Club Salary to the Upper Limit. The Club may then exceed the Upper Limit by up to another $1 million as a result of the replacement salary and bonuses. However, if the unfit-to-play Player once again becomes fit to play, and the Club has not otherwise created any Payroll Room during the interim period, then the Player shall not be permitted to rejoin the Club until such time as the Club reduces its Averaged Club Salary to below the Upper Limit.

The article - heck, the entire CBA - makes my head hurt.

The interesting section is in the example. It seems that the replacement salary first consumes all remaining cap space and only then is the club allowed to exceed to cap with the replacement.

Now if we just knew the precise definitions of and restrictions on "Club's Upper Limit", "Actual Club Salary", "Averaged Club Salary", and "Players' Share".

Release the whole CBA dammit.