In the interest of stirring the pot, why some may prefer Malkin to AO

[Jaded-Fan]

Or an alternate heading: AO ain't no Mario . . .


I know, I know heresy . . . which is why I am enjoying writing this . . . and granted if given the opportunity the Pens would taken AO over Malkin for ticket selling reasons alone, but since so many threads, even threads on Malkin or other top prospects, become AO shrines quickly, in the interest of fun and fair play, I will give an argument of why some might prefer Malkin in the end. If it pokes a finger in the eye of some Caps or AO fans all the more fun.

First, we have all those tantalizing quotes from respected scouts that we have all seen, from Conte on down, that at least the gap has closed, some even implying that they would take Malkin over AO if given the chance. Likely not, but that implies a small gap in my mind, unless a whole lot of scouts are blowing smoke where the sun don't shine. I wonder if AO had not generated years worth of hype, much as Crosby has been doing, if that gap might be even smaller.

Now reading between the lines of the scouts quotes, and why the Caps would be stupid for taking Malkin over AO, even if ticket buying reasons left out of the equation: Malkin seems to be the promise of what AO is already . . . and as the old saying goes a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, take the sure thing, but from what I see from the scouts, they see the promise of ability such as that in Malkin, just not even close to there yet. Much like the stupid thread asking who is better right now, Crosby or AO? . . . May as well ask who is better right now Forsberg or Crosby, there is no comparison. Take AO, the sure thing.

Now to make the heresy argument of why Malkin is the better pick. He is a center, not a wing. If, and that is a huge if, Malkin developes to be even close to what AO is supposed to be, even if he is a bit less, I would take a center, in this case Malkin, every time. Mario is the ultimate example of that, and also goes to my second heading, AO ain't no Mario and never will be. No wing can be. I remember during an all star game a wing who played along side of Mario, maybe it was one of the Bruins, but I can not recall, said 'a fire hydrant could score thirty goals as Mario's right wing.' Come to think of it one did - Warren Young once scored forty as Mario's wing (and then signed a multi-million dollar deal with Detroit and never scored more than ten again I think). A great center can make average wingers great, a winger can not make average centers great. Take the quaterback everytime over the wide reciever.

AO will be a great player I think, but let us hold off on the bronze shrine's outside of the rink in washington . . . even if he does become great, he may only be the second best in this years class.

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[hawksfan50]

Or an alternate heading: AO ain't no Mario . . .


I know, I know heresy . . . which is why I am enjoying writing this . . . and granted if given the opportunity the Pens would taken AO over Malkin for ticket selling reasons alone, but since so many threads, even threads on Malkin or other top prospects, become AO shrines quickly, in the interest of fun and fair play, I will give an argument of why some might prefer Malkin in the end. If it pokes a finger in the eye of some Caps or AO fans all the more fun.

First, we have all those tantalizing quotes from respected scouts that we have all seen, from Conte on down, that at least the gap has closed, some even implying that they would take Malkin over AO if given the chance. Likely not, but that implies a small gap in my mind, unless a whole lot of scouts are blowing smoke where the sun don't shine. I wonder if AO had not generated years worth of hype, much as Crosby has been doing, if that gap might be even smaller.

Now reading between the lines of the scouts quotes, and why the Caps would be stupid for taking Malkin over AO, even if ticket buying reasons left out of the equation: Malkin seems to be the promise of what AO is already . . . and as the old saying goes a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, take the sure thing, but from what I see from the scouts, they see the promise of ability such as that in Malkin, just not even close to there yet. Much like the stupid thread asking who is better right now, Crosby or AO? . . . May as well ask who s better right now Forsberg or Crosby, there is no comparison. Take AO, the sure thing.

Now to make the heresy argument of why Malkin is the better pick. He is a center, not a wing. If, and that is a huge if, Malkin developes to be even close to what AO is supposed to be, even if he is a bit less, I would take a center, in this case Malkin, every time. Mario is the ultimate example of that, and also goes to my second heading, AO ain't no Mario and never will be. No wing can be. I remember during an all star game a wing who played along side of Mario, maybe it was one of the Bruins, but I can not recall, said 'a fire hydrant could score thirty goals as Mario's right wing.' Come to think of it one did - Warren Young once scored forty as Mario's wing (and then signed a multi-million dollar deal with Detroit and never scored more than ten again I think). A great center can make average wingers great, a winger can not make average centers great. Take the quaterback everytime over the wide reciever.

AO will be a great player I think, but let us hold off on the bronze shrine's outside of the rink in washington . . . even if he does become great, he may only be the second best in this years class.

Also Malkin is 9.5 months younger than AO........and already almost 2 inches taller....and still could grow and fill out more!

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Also Malkin is 9.5 months younger than AO........and already almost 2 inches taller....and still could grow and fill out more!

*chuckles* . . . very good points . . . come on, jump onto the bandwagon . . . and good to see others having fun with this . . .

I will add another . . . voted best forward in U18 and best rookie . . . all done while not recovered from injuries so going far less than 100% . . .

 

[Dr_Chimera*]

I'm not getting the point here.

You can't be at a certain level if you're a wing? We have Bobby Hull, Rocket Richard, Valeri Kharlamov if you want to talk about Russians.

Some wingers are fire hydrants and some centers are too.

No one in their right mind is making Mario Lemieux comparisons. Why are you bringing up Lemieux?

 

[Bookman]

Nice post -- if nothing more, Pittsburgh should feel pretty good getting either one of these guys. pretty nice consolation prize if you ask me.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I'm not getting the point here.

You can't be at a certain level if you're a wing? We have Bobby Hull, Rocket Richard, Valeri Kharlamov if you want to talk about Russians.

Some wingers are fire hydrants and some centers are too.

No one in their right mind is making Mario Lemieux comparisons. Why are you bringing up Lemieux?

yup, you missed the point (though part of the point was just having fun with this, as I said, the Pens would take AO if given the chance) . . . or just disagree with it which is fine too . . . There have been some absolutely legends as wings over the years, I do not disagree, I merely believe that all things being equal a Center brings more to a team than a wing . . . to use an NFL analogy, I would have rather had Danny Marino in his prime than Jerry Rice . . . does that mean Jerry Rice is lessened? . . . no, but Marino is involved much more so is more valuable . . . A center is your quarterback, who runs the plays, true a great wing can have a role with assists and such, but the center is much more involved in setting up the plays on the ice IMO. Again, a great center can have a fire hydrant as a wing (in fact many wings have said they just had to put their sticks on the ice and Mario would bank the pucks off them), no great wing can have a fire hydrant setting him up.

And yes, though I am from Pittsburgh Mario comes to mind, but that was not the reason for using Mario's name, the 'best since Mario' comparison has been made, not just by fans but in print.

 

[Epsilon]

yup, you missed the point (though part of the point was just having fun with this, as I said, the Pens would take AO if given the chance) . . . or just disagree with it which is fine too . . . There have been some absolutely legends as wings over the years, I do not disagree, I merely believe that all things being equal a Center brings more to a team than a wing . . . to use an NFL analogy, I would have rather had Danny Marino in his prime than Jerry Rice . . . does that mean Jerry Rice is lessened? . . . no, but Marino is involved much more so is more valuable . . . A center is your quarterback, who runs the plays, true a great wing can have a role with assists and such, but the center is much more involved in setting up the plays on the ice IMO. Again, a great center can have a fire hydrant as a wing (in fact many wings have said they just had to put their sticks on the ice and Mario would bank the pucks off them), no great wing can have a fire hydrant setting him up.

And yes, though I am from Pittsburgh Mario comes to mind, but that was not the reason for using Mario's name, the 'best since Mario' comparison has been made, not just by fans but in print.

That is an AWFUL comparison. QB to WR in the NFL is totally different than Center to Wing in the NHL.

 

[PSUhockey34]

The biggest and probably only real thing Malkin has on Ovechkin is that he has less hype surronding him...I love the excuse he's 9 1/2 months younger and 2 inches taller, sound judgement in why you should draft Malkin over Ovechkin, its not like AO is already 6'1 200 or something

 

[Dr_Chimera*]

yup, you missed the point (though part of the point was just having fun with this, as I said, the Pens would take AO if given the chance) . . . or just disagree with it which is fine too . . . There have been some absolutely legends as wings over the years, I do not disagree, I merely believe that all things being equal a Center brings more to a team than a wing . . . to use an NFL analogy, I would have rather had Danny Marino in his prime than Jerry Rice . . . does that mean Jerry Rice is lessened? . . . no, but Marino is involved much more so is more valuable . . . A center is your quarterback, who runs the plays, true a great wing can have a role with assists and such, but the center is much more involved in setting up the plays on the ice IMO. Again, a great center can have a fire hydrant as a wing (in fact many wings have said they just had to put their sticks on the ice and Mario would bank the pucks off them), no great wing can have a fire hydrant setting him up.

And yes, though I am from Pittsburgh Mario comes to mind, but that was not the reason for using Mario's name, the 'best since Mario' comparison has been made, not just by fans but in print.

I don't think you have a point.

You don't take a center simply because he is a center. I understand that if you have two players (a winger and a center) who are entirely alike aside from position, but that doesn't apply for Ovechkin/Malkin. A year ago Ovechkin lit up the U-18's for 14 goals - Malkin was just over point-per-game this year.

You don't take Bobby Hull over Mats Sundin. So no - maybe I'm not getting the point.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I don't think you have a point.

You don't take a center simply because he is a center. I understand that if you have two players (a winger and a center) who are entirely alike aside from position, but that doesn't apply for Ovechkin/Malkin. A year ago Ovechkin lit up the U-18's for 14 goals - Malkin was just over point-per-game this year.

You don't take Bobby Hull over Mats Sundin. So no - maybe I'm not getting the point.

*smiles* . . . yup, thought that this might be fun . . . point by point . . . This years Russia U18 does not have the talent last years did and played many cupcakes where AO padded his totals as opposed to only one cupcake this year . . . And AO was uninjured, Malkin was playing at a fraction of 100% and still got 8 points, still voted best forward. Also, I said above, all things being equal (an assumption that both become fairly comparable talents) then I would take the center every time.


Finally the point about the comparison with a quarterback and WR . . .true, it falls apart in many ways, but a center remains more valuable as the playmaker for the team. As an example, it was pointed out in one post on the Caps board by someone that AO may be limited in points his rookie year by the Caps not having a lot of talent at center currently.

 

[montreal]

I just watched a tape of Ovechkin, Malkin and Olez. Ovechkin and Malkin were playing in the RSL and Olez in the wjc. Malkin was the more effective player in the 2 games of him I have on tape. I am in no way saying Malkin is better then Ovechkin or not, cause I've only seen Malkin twice ever, and Ovechkin maybe 3 times. What I will say is that whoever gets both of these guys are getting some very serious talent, and I would be happy to have either one.

For all the hype, Ovechkin wasn't very noticeable in this game (but then again Zherdev was invisible in the 2 games I have of CSKA, and look what he's done in the NHL) I know Ovechkin is a great player, but AK Bars took it to Dynamo, and from what I understand AK Bars has one of the better defensive teams in the RSL. In one game of Malkin vs CSKA, Malkin shows some nice moves and gets an assist on the PP, but Magnitogorsk just shelled CSKA for the entire game. (Moyzakin was a real treat to watch, Gladskikh as well).

Olez didnt have the best game, and I felt Kasper looked more impressive with his physical game, but you can see he's got a ton of talent as well. Schwarz was also very good, so it was cool to see 4 of the top ten picks from this year, cause I'd be shocked if these 4 don't go in the top ten in june.

 

[flyercide]

I don't know would you pass on Brett Hull, Mike Bossy or Cam Neely? Like ya said you take the sure thing. Everything we've heard is AO is it... always taking the best player available regardless of position is a good method to follow.

 

[flyercide]

yup, you missed the point (though part of the point was just having fun with this, as I said, the Pens would take AO if given the chance) . . . or just disagree with it which is fine too . . . There have been some absolutely legends as wings over the years, I do not disagree, I merely believe that all things being equal a Center brings more to a team than a wing . . . to use an NFL analogy, I would have rather had Danny Marino in his prime than Jerry Rice . . . does that mean Jerry Rice is lessened? . . . no, but Marino is involved much more so is more valuable . . . A center is your quarterback, who runs the plays, true a great wing can have a role with assists and such, but the center is much more involved in setting up the plays on the ice IMO. Again, a great center can have a fire hydrant as a wing (in fact many wings have said they just had to put their sticks on the ice and Mario would bank the pucks off them), no great wing can have a fire hydrant setting him up.

And yes, though I am from Pittsburgh Mario comes to mind, but that was not the reason for using Mario's name, the 'best since Mario' comparison has been made, not just by fans but in print.

WIP a radio sports talk show here in Philly was having a discussion the other day about the Eagles worst drafts. apparently the Eagles passed on Marino & Rice in the same Draft! Could you imagine if they drafted them both.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

WIP a radio sports talk show here in Philly was having a discussion the other day about the Eagles worst drafts. apparently the Eagles passed on Marino & Rice in the same Draft! Could you imagine if they drafted them both.

That could be said for lots of teams that year, if I remember Marino went with the last pick in the first round, Rice something like 27th pick . . . so the eagles were not alone in the missing of the potential of those two.

 

[Dr_Chimera*]

*smiles* . . . yup, thought that this might be fun . . . point by point . . . This years Russia U18 does not have the talent last years did and played many cupcakes where AO padded his totals as opposed to only one cupcake this year . . . And AO was uninjured, Malkin was playing at a fraction of 100% and still got 8 points, still voted best forward. Also, I said above, all things being equal (an assumption that both become fairly comparable talents) then I would take the center every time.

That's not true. I would say this year's Russian team is much more skilled and their first place finish attests for that.

The Radulov/Voloshenko/Yunkov line is Russia's strongest single junior line in years. This was easily a stronger team.

You have a very good point about Malkin and his injuries, but if you look at his pre-injury tournaments, he failed to light them on fire either.

This is not said to underrate Malkin's accomplishments - he is a terrific player, but he's not on Ovechkin's level. And this is coming from someone who has seen both play.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

don't dump on wings. jagr and kovalchuk are wings too. wingers are every bit as capable as centers to be the best players in the league.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

don't dump on wings. jagr and kovalchuk are wings too. wingers are every bit as capable as centers to be the best players in the league.

I am pretty sure that nothing I said disputes that, I said if all things were equal I would choose a center over a wing and to give a reason, position, why Malkin was for the purposes of this post and it's premise, a better pick. Again, I would take AO right now over Malkin, this post is to play devil's advocate mostly because the AO growing hype is out of proportion to several realities, one being AO's future which looks bright but has many variables, another reality is Malkin and what his actual potential may be, which some seem to need to lessen as it is infringing on AO's glow.

 

[MagnusJondus]

From what I've seen of AO, he's all over the ice anyway. He has such rediculous speed that he's always around the puck. The fact that he's a winger won't limit his touches much.

IMO, AO is like Kovalchuk with a bit more playmaking ability, but without the release that Kovy has. Noone has as quick a release as he does. Maybe ever. AO also has intangibles which may make him a better player than Kovy someday.

Thats the scale we're dealing with.

And atop it all, Washington could always move him to center. If it will increase his production, they probably will anyway.

 

[EroCaps]

I just watched a tape of Ovechkin, Malkin and Olez. Ovechkin and Malkin were playing in the RSL and Olez in the wjc. Malkin was the more effective player in the 2 games of him I have on tape. I am in no way saying Malkin is better then Ovechkin or not, cause I've only seen Malkin twice ever, and Ovechkin maybe 3 times. What I will say is that whoever gets both of these guys are getting some very serious talent, and I would be happy to have either one.

For all the hype, Ovechkin wasn't very noticeable in this game (but then again Zherdev was invisible in the 2 games I have of CSKA, and look what he's done in the NHL) I know Ovechkin is a great player, but AK Bars took it to Dynamo, and from what I understand AK Bars has one of the better defensive teams in the RSL. In one game of Malkin vs CSKA, Malkin shows some nice moves and gets an assist on the PP, but Magnitogorsk just shelled CSKA for the entire game. (Moyzakin was a real treat to watch, Gladskikh as well).

Olez didnt have the best game, and I felt Kasper looked more impressive with his physical game, but you can see he's got a ton of talent as well. Schwarz was also very good, so it was cool to see 4 of the top ten picks from this year, cause I'd be shocked if these 4 don't go in the top ten in june.

Watch more than one tape, or check out a few clips from the Ovechkin thread.

 

[Hockeycrazed07]

IMO, AO is like Kovalchuk...

The only thing AO (and Malkin) have in common with Kovalchuk is sick skill. Attitude-wise, they're nothing alike. In fact, a comparison between AO and Malkin is more apt than one between either and Kovalchuk. I'm not saying that any of them is/isn't a team player, but they have different centres of focus.

~Crazed.

 

[Jacob]

Watch more than one tape, or check out a few clips from the Ovechkin thread.

Watch more than just clips.

 

[pittengineer]

AO is def the number 1 this year. But after watchin some tapes of both, I think Malkin has def closed the gap. Do I prefer Malkin to AO? Prob. Not. However, I do like Malkin size for only being 17 and he is a center. I would also point out that I think Malkin may actually fit the pens system better right now. Pens lack a #1 scoring center and Malkin fits that bill.

 

[EroCaps]

Watch more than just clips.

I didn't know I only watched clips.

 

[Foppa_Rules]

Another point is that Ovechkin plays all THREE forward positions, but mostly on wing.

 

[Hockeycrazed07]

Malkin can play all 3 as well. Most Russians pride themselves on playing more than one position. Way to know Russia, genious!

~Crazed.