Rumor: In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) LXXXV

[Frenchy]

continue frome here

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[Warriorpride1]

On the whole avs trading for carle. If the lightning are looking to get rid of defensemen, why would that take two dmen for one?

Edit: I still don't want him with his contract.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

I prefer to fantasize about Radulov being an Av over realistic crap like Carle.

 

[Avsboy]

Radulov being an Av is more realistic than Carle. Sources are saying Roy contacted Radulov's agent. The other one is just a trade proposal with no sources confirming anything.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I don't know if the Matthews thing is still interesting but apparently he was supposed to announce today and didn't, supposedly he's now mulling other European teams/leagues and their offers.

 

[AvsRobin]

I don't know if the Matthews thing is still interesting but apparently he was supposed to announce today and didn't, supposedly he's not mulling other European teams/leagues and their offers.

If he goes to Sweden I'll be very excited.

 

[tigervixxxen]

May as well. Choosing the Swiss league before other options never quite made sense to me.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Don't know if anyone saw this but it's the audio interview of where those Russia comments Duchene made earlier. 9 minute interview. Love hearing him say he wants to be an Av forever. Pretty much safe assumption but still nice hearing someone actually say they are committed to Colorado.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/590/dean-bl...-duchene-on-a-roller-coaster-year-on-the-ice/

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Don't know if anyone saw this but it's the audio interview of where those Russia comments Duchene made earlier. 9 minute interview. Love hearing him say he wants to be an Av forever. Pretty much safe assumption but still nice hearing someone actually say they are committed to Colorado.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/590/dean-bl...-duchene-on-a-roller-coaster-year-on-the-ice/

Those interviewers are real turds. Duchene will be around for a while.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Those interviewers are real turds. Duchene will be around for a while.

Definitely of the shock jock variety. Those of you who listen to a lot of radio I don't know how you do it.

 

[hockeyfish]

Radulov being an Av is more realistic than Carle. Sources are saying Roy contacted Radulov's agent. The other one is just a trade proposal with no sources confirming anything.

I actually feel it's pretty much going to happen. But we will have to wait a year.

 

[Avs_19]

There's no opt-out or way to buy his KHL contract out? I don't want to wait a year.

 

[AvsRobin]

May as well. Choosing the Swiss league before other options never quite made sense to me.

I think he will pick Swiss in the end though. I wouldn't be able to swear that the swedish league is better than the swiss. The finnish league is clearly the worst of the three though, but maybe that's the only place he will be guaranteed a 1st line centre job. I don't know how good he is right now.

 

[the_fan]

So if Radulov does join the Avs, reports say it will be in 2 years. I'm more curious to see what the Avs will do for next season, who knows whats gonna happen in 2 years.

 

[Khokhlach86]

Enough of you to dream.
Radulov has a contract with one of the top clubs in the country, which is financed from the top echelons of the country. He is the face of the KHL, which also supports the very highest echelons of the country.
No he will not go to America under the current contract.

This summer Radulov wedding, he will have a child, he himself admitted that he wants next year to take a walk along the central streets of Moscow, celebrating a victory in the Gagarin Cup, as SKA did this year in Sankt-Petersburg. So this year he just will not go away in the NHL.

Plus, do not forget how he behaves in the KHL, he is constantly arguing with the referees in a very rigid form, he's behaves provocatively to the penalty box, he gives an emotional and tough interview. He realizes that because he is now - I'm the king in the KHL, and he almost everything is permitted and with all this, he gets a lot of money.
He wants to exchange this all things again on the NHL dream, where he had once made a scapegoat? I really doubt it.

 

[Avs_19]

He'll swim to Denver to play for Roy!

 

[UncleRisto]

Since Finland has been linked to the rumored destinations for Matthews, I can't help but think that could be Jokerit. Or then damn IFK who got Goldobin over. Would be very interesting to see in any case.

 

[Bender]

Wow, obviously I hit a nerve.

You put way too emphasis on some supposed role he had in the Olympics.

So when Duchene let's his man get behind him backdoor, that's just because of the role he is being asked to play? When Duchene leaves his side of the ice to try and get the puck when that side/player is already cover, by 2 people no less, that's the role he is asked to play? When he attacks the puck behind the net from the slot, with his stick in the air, allowing a pass into the crease, that's just the role he is being asked to play?

I'm judging him like I would judge any other forward. I don't know why you think he should be judged differently just because he is expected to put up points. Everyone is expected to play D. There are no cheaters in this system.

But you are just furthering my point. Anyone who needs to focus so hard on D that they are actually hurting/sacrificing themselves offensively, well, said player isn't a good defender.

So when all of those things ALSO happen to other players, does that make them poor defenders as well?? Because it does, it happens to all players. If you want to minimize the fact that he was one of 22-23 players to make the best team in the world, be my guest...I don't think it's anything to scoff at. I guess the coaches on that team were wrong...

Let me guess, you've never played the game have you? It's about a mindset. It's about having an assignment and it's about doing your best with that assignment. If it were super easy to play BOTH big time offense all the while being awesome defensively, ALL OF THE BEST offensive players in the league would be great 2-way players, which isn't the case now, is it?

Is Matt Duchene any worst defensively then Claude Giroux? John Tavares? Tyler Seguin? I don't think he's much better or much worse than any of those guys defensively.

As myself and others have been trying to explain to you, it usually comes with time and more experience just like it did with Sakic and Yzerman. A lot of people on here don't remember the early Sakic years but I do. But those teams were just so awful that whatever offense we could muster was thoroughly appreciated while the defensive breakdowns had become routine. Sakic started becoming a better 2-way player around the time the team moved to Denver. He was 26 years old.

Sometimes, the 2-way game just doesn't come because either the player doesn't care or doesn't want to put the work in to improve (Mike Ribeiro) and then that player gets labelled as a 1-way defensive liability.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Guys, let's dial it back a touch ok. This is an interesting topic but the personal jabs stop right here. Mkay? Or else I'm deleting the entire convo.

 

[Chileiceman]

Since Finland has been linked to the rumored destinations for Matthews, I can't help but think that could be Jokerit. Or then damn IFK who got Goldobin over. Would be very interesting to see in any case.

I doubt he'll go to KHL with the heavy travel.

On another note, Jean Martineu said that all the Radullov stuff was just speculation. No surprises there. http://www.championat.com/hockey/ne...orado-k-radulovu-jeto-prosto-spekuljacii.html

 

[UncleRisto]

I doubt he'll go to KHL with the heavy travel.

Yeah I don't think so either.

 

[InjuredChoker]

So when all of those things ALSO happen to other players, does that make them poor defenders as well?? Because it does, it happens to all players. If you want to minimize the fact that he was one of 22-23 players to make the best team in the world, be my guest...I don't think it's anything to scoff at. I guess the coaches on that team were wrong...
Let me guess, you've never played the game have you? It's about a mindset. It's about having an assignment and it's about doing your best with that assignment. If it were super easy to play BOTH big time offense all the while being awesome defensively, ALL OF THE BEST offensive players in the league would be great 2-way players, which isn't the case now, is it?

Is Matt Duchene any worst defensively then Claude Giroux? John Tavares? Tyler Seguin? I don't think he's much better or much worse than any of those guys defensively.

As myself and others have been trying to explain to you, it usually comes with time and more experience just like it did with Sakic and Yzerman. A lot of people on here don't remember the early Sakic years but I do. But those teams were just so awful that whatever offense we could muster was thoroughly appreciated while the defensive breakdowns had become routine. Sakic started becoming a better 2-way player around the time the team moved to Denver. He was 26 years old.

Sometimes, the 2-way game just doesn't come because either the player doesn't care or doesn't want to put the work in to improve (Mike Ribeiro) and then that player gets labelled as a 1-way defensive liability.

he is definitely worse defensively than giroux. probably about even with seguin. i'd put tavares slightly ahead but i think they are fairly close.

i really don't thinl there's #1C who is worse defensively than duchene. maybe spezza but he's probably not #1C anymore.

 

[ABasin]

Is Matt Duchene any worst defensively then Claude Giroux? John Tavares? Tyler Seguin? I don't think he's much better or much worse than any of those guys defensively.

As myself and others have been trying to explain to you, it usually comes with time and more experience just like it did with Sakic and Yzerman. A lot of people on here don't remember the early Sakic years but I do. But those teams were just so awful that whatever offense we could muster was thoroughly appreciated while the defensive breakdowns had become routine. Sakic started becoming a better 2-way player around the time the team moved to Denver. He was 26 years old.

Some interesting points in this post.

First, I think Giroux is a better defensive player than Duchene. In fact, if we look at the league's #1 centers, Duchene's probably in the bottom half defensively. But I don't really think that's the important part. What's more important, is how the team is made up. Because the Avs have a #2 center who is very good defensively, so having a #1 center who is just OK defensively is an acceptable thing. This is one reason why I believe Boston really, really blew it with that Seguin trade. They didn't need Seguin to be a great two-way guy, because Bergeron is sitting right there. The Avs have the same luxury with Duchene. For now.

You also bring up a good point about Sakic/Yzerman. I'm also old enough to have seen those guys as young players, and I wholly agree that neither guy was very good defensively as a young player. Everyone remembers Sakic's mature years, but not his formative ones. Not only wasn't he good defensively, he wasn't an elite skater early on either. He really improved both of those things as he got into his mid-20s.

Playing quality defense - or improving one's defense might be a better way to put it - can be learned at any point in a player's career, IMO.

 

[ABasin]

(On the Carle thing from the terminated thread)

First, Matt Carle is a far better player Nick Holden is. His contract is rich, and he's a player with flaws, but he is not at all a poor hockey player. He can skate and move the puck. If he walked onto the Avs today, he'd easily be their 3rd best defenseman. I agree with Mars and Hench here - if the Avs could get Carle and dump Holden's contract (essentially Carle for ~$4M per), I'd seriously consider it.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Lonewolfe, only reason I say MacK might is because of the age factor. He has a lot more time to improve his game and he is at an age where improvement should be expected. If Duchene improves his game, that's awesome. But at his age I don't expect him to add much else to his game. I also think MacK is more aggressive and physical, which could make for a better defender if he gets better mentally on that side of the ice. Right now, MacK is probably our worst defender. It's pretty close between him and Duchene though.

So when all of those things ALSO happen to other players, does that make them poor defenders as well?? Because it does, it happens to all players. If you want to minimize the fact that he was one of 22-23 players to make the best team in the world, be my guest...I don't think it's anything to scoff at. I guess the coaches on that team were wrong...like all of the people who are currently disagreeing with you are wrong. You are the one who's right though. Everyone else is wrong.
(might want to think about changing your point of view)

Let me guess, you've never played the game have you? It's about a mindset. It's about having an assignment and it's about doing your best with that assignment. If it were super easy to play BOTH big time offense all the while being awesome defensively, ALL OF THE BEST offensive players in the league would be great 2-way players, which isn't the case now, is it?

Is Matt Duchene any worst defensively then Claude Giroux? John Tavares? Tyler Seguin? I don't think he's much better or much worse than any of those guys defensively.

As myself and others have been trying to explain to you, it usually comes with time and more experience just like it did with Sakic and Yzerman. A lot of people on here don't remember the early Sakic years but I do. But those teams were just so awful that whatever offense we could muster was thoroughly appreciated while the defensive breakdowns had become routine. Sakic started becoming a better 2-way player around the time the team moved to Denver. He was 26 years old.

Sometimes, the 2-way game just doesn't come because either the player doesn't care or doesn't want to put the work in to improve (Mike Ribeiro) and then that player gets labelled as a 1-way defensive liability.

First off, of course everyone makes mistakes, messes up or just plain gets beat. It happens to every single player out there. There is not a single person in the entire sport who hasn't made a mistake. The simple fact that you even have to take the argument here means you don't have anything else legit to argue. Duchene just makes more defensive mistakes than your average player, and more than maybe everyone on the Avs.

How in the world did I minimize the fact that he made the Olympics? I never said that at all. I belittled the idea that he was chosen because of his defense. That is just a joke. Just because he was the last selected and played in the bottom 6 doesn't mean he was selected for a defensive role. When you have a team stacked like team Canada, traditional roles are thrown out the window.



Playing a game doesn't mean jack diddly when it comes to analyzing. Do you have any idea how many coaches and players I have had laugh at the idea that just because someone plays a sport that makes them an expert (I wanted to get into football scouting/coaching, but this was something I was terrified of- I never played the sport. I talked to a lot of people who assured me that there are many people who never play. I easily found my way onto a team a couple years ago as a volunteer and would have a paying position now if I stuck with that career choice)? I don't need to have played to watch and compare the players on the ice.

So these great offensive players just don't play great D, because that's their choosing?. I never said it was super easy to play both. but for some reason it appears as though you think it is super easy for these offensive guys to just flip a switch and decide to start playing good D.

Not familiar enough with Taveras and Giroux. From what I can tell I would say they are average or below average. Certainly have not shown anything more than that, but it's hard to judge without seeing the consistency aspect. Seguin is in the same boat as Duchene though. Not sure how that makes Duchene any better however. Seguin is below average as well.

How much time does someone need? The guy has been around for years. Maybe you guys are right and he will become above average one day, but I have my doubts. He sure as hell isn't now though. That's something you will not be right about. Duchene is currently a below average defender, especially for a center.

So it's either 2way player, or 1way defensive liability? I've never said Duchene is a liability. He just isn't a good defender. A step up from liability. A step below average. just because someone isn't a 2way player doesn't mean they are a liability to me. IMO 2way just means "good at both". A lack of 2way ability doesn't mean a liability in one area, just that they are not good n both sides of the ice. Just because someone isn't good doesn't mean they are a liability. Big difference between liability and below average. PaP was a freakin liability. Ovi's lazy ass from the other year was a liability. Duchene isn't a liability, but he gives up too many scores to be considered an average defender IMO.