Rumor: In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) LXXV

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Skip2myBordyloo

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Yeah because players can't regress in 2 years over their late 20s when they have injuries and are undersized physical players.

He's looked fine in Pittsburgh games I've watched this year, surely better than our bottom 6 dumpster fire.

One of the reasons why I ***** about our "garbage" players is they gave us enough flexibility to beat other teams up offensively last year.

We were a 9 forward deep team last year, this year we are 6 deep making it very hard for our top 6 to play against other teams as they have a much easier time matching up to us.
 

shadow1

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The Pens forward group is pretty damn bad. If it isn't the worst bottom 6, it is very close. Outside of Crosby and Malkin they have 3-4 other top 9 forwards. They look better because of those two.

Points don't equate to being a 3rd liner. Yeah he produces, but he lacks defense, takes bad penalties, and he can't PK. He is a good depth player to have on the 4th line where he can be moved up since he has some skill. He has 18 even strength points, which I believe 5 of which are with Malkin/Crosby. Talbot has 12 even strength points. Downie isn't a 3rd liner IMO. He was before his injuries piled up, but not now unfortunately.

I disagree.

Kunitz, Hornqvist, Dupuis, Spaling, Perron, Comeau, and Sutter.
 

InjuredChoker

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The Pens forward group is pretty damn bad. If it isn't the worst bottom 6, it is very close. Outside of Crosby and Malkin they have 3-4 other top 9 forwards. They look better because of those two.

Points don't equate to being a 3rd liner. Yeah he produces, but he lacks defense, takes bad penalties, and he can't PK. He is a good depth player to have on the 4th line where he can be moved up since he has some skill. He has 18 even strength points, which I believe 5 of which are with Malkin/Crosby. Talbot has 12 even strength points. Downie isn't a 3rd liner IMO. He was before his injuries piled up, but not now unfortunately.

LOL, half came when mackinnon or duchene weren't on the ice.

or does that only work when talking about downie?

he isn't good at traditional defense but pens outscore the other team by fair margin when he's on the ice and almost all pens Fs score better when they are with downie, compared to without him.
 

Foppa2118

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No discussion that Lemieux refused to sign in Buffalo?

Yea, interesting. Just saw that. I wanted the Avs to try to pry him out of there, but if that's true, it doesn't really do a lot for his character IMO. Not sure what the hell Claude is thinking advising him in that area either. Don't really like that entitled attitude in a young player.

AJ Jakubec @AJonSports · 2h 2 hours ago
Not surprised to see Brendan Lemieux involved in Kane/Myers blockbuster. His agent (Claude) told the Sabres Brendan wasn't signing in BUF.
 
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tigervixxxen

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Only thing I'll say about Downie is he was a pending UFA that they weren't going to keep. This was an asset management move that everyone seems to favor, nothing more. He was going to walk for nothing, they got a player for term.
 

henchman21

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LOL, half came when mackinnon or duchene weren't on the ice.

or does that only work when talking about downie?

he isn't good at traditional defense but pens outscore the other team by fair margin when he's on the ice and almost all pens Fs score better when they are with downie, compared to without him.

Surprised Talbot had that many while up there. It also applies and is fair when comparing them.

I said he produces, but that doesn't make him a 3rd liner.
 

Foppa2118

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So with the Jets moving Bogo and bringing in another RD in Myers, that makes it seem even less likely they keep Buff. It just doesn't make sense to keep him at forward long term.

Wonder if they keep him for a playoff push, and then make a deal with the Avs for ROR at the draft?
 

Skip2myBordyloo

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So with the Jets moving Bogo and bringing in another RD in Myers, that makes it seem even less likely they keep Buff. It just doesn't make sense to keep him at forward long term.

Wonder if they keep him for a playoff push, and then make a deal with the Avs for ROR at the draft?

There's no way they trade him in the division, they'd probably want that wrecking ball as far away as possible.
 

InjuredChoker

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So with the Jets moving Bogo and bringing in another RD in Myers, that makes it seem even less likely they keep Buff. It just doesn't make sense to keep him at forward long term.

Wonder if they keep him for a playoff push, and then make a deal with the Avs for ROR at the draft?

buff is going back on D.
 

tucker3434

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I'm not going to argue that we don't desperately need more depth, but we could have gotten Downie as a UFA last offseason and had both him and Talbot.
 

shadow1

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Dupuis is out for the season. I'll give 4 others out of that list.

Yes Dupuis is hurt, but that is still six solid players in addition to two of the top forwards in the NHL.

Not to mention Beau Bennett on the doorstep, along with Lapierre and Downie on the fourth line.

They have a good group up front.
 

Iceberg

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Yeah because players can't regress in 2 years over their late 20s when they have injuries and are undersized physical players.

Of course they can, and Downie has lost a step for sure.

But he is still a good 3rd liner... i would rather have him on the 3rd line right now than McLeod.
 

Foppa2118

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buff is going back on D.

Which also isn't long term because he's a UFA after next year, and since Trouba is a RFA at the same time, and they have Myers and Enstrom making big bucks, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to keep buff as a 3rd RD.
 

InjuredChoker

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Surprised Talbot had that many while up there. It also applies and is fair when comparing them.

I said he produces, but that doesn't make him a 3rd liner.

he matches up against other teams 3rd lines, sometimes top 6 lines and pens outscore the other team by fair margin when downie is on the ice.

but yeah. not 3rd liner.
 

InjuredChoker

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Which also isn't long term because he's a UFA after next year, and since Trouba is a RFA at the same time, and they have Myers and Enstrom making big bucks, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to keep buff as a 3rd RD.

i don't know what their plans are, do they move one of their RDs left or what.

i don't think they trade buff to us. i wouldn't in same position. motivated buff is dangerous player.
 

tigervixxxen

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Yea, interesting. Just saw that. I wanted the Avs to try to pry him out of there, but if that's true, it doesn't really do a lot for his character IMO. Not sure what the hell Claude is thinking advising him in that area either. Don't really like that entitled attitude in a young player.

AJ Jakubec @AJonSports · 2h 2 hours ago
Not surprised to see Brendan Lemieux involved in Kane/Myers blockbuster. His agent (Claude) told the Sabres Brendan wasn't signing in BUF.

I always thought he was pissed about not being a first rounder and not so much that the Avs didn't take him. That was always much more of a media story than real life.
 

Foppa2118

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i don't know what their plans are, do they move one of their RDs left or what.

i don't think they trade buff to us. i wouldn't in same position. motivated buff is dangerous player.

Maybe not, but my guess is he's moving before next season.
 

Foppa2118

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I always thought he was pissed about not being a first rounder and not so much that the Avs didn't take him. That was always much more of a media story than real life.

I think it was both.

“There were a few teams there that really stung,†he said, referencing the Colorado Avalanche. “I’m definitely to love going in their arenas and really making it hard on their guys because they decided to pass me over, so I’m just going to use this as fuel.

“They gave one of the more fiery guys in the draft, I’d like to say, a lot more fire.â€

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/brendan-lemieux-motivation-161452638.html
 

cgf

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Could the Avs have even made this type of trade? I don't think we have the prospects or rosters players to do a deal like this. The thing that pisses me off about this trade is that it just shows how far behind our prospect pool is behind everyone else's. We don't have the young players in the AHL or junior that we can afford to give up in order to bring in more NHL roster talent.

As an avs fan who's second favorite team is a tie between the hawks and sabres; while I'm jealous of their young depth and defensive prospects, I'd rather have the top end pieces in place and need to build up the depth behind them than have the supporting spots overflowing and lack top end talent.

That's why I'm so happy that the Sabres are tanking so well this year while making an aggressive, Sherman-esque, move like this...even if I'm not the biggest believer in Kane figuring it out in Buffalo. That team is just waiting for their Duchene/MacKinnon/Landy/EJ/Varly's to start taking over; and while I love Girgensen as much as the next guy and think he can keep growing into an O'Reilly type, like Foligno as a more dangerous McGinnn, am optimistic about Reinhardt and/or Grigorenko making it as their Stastny, and am very high on Zadorov and Risto growing into their EJ and Barrie, they still need those top end scoring talents and gamebreakers who can become truly elite and control games for them like Duchene, MacK and even Landy (in previous season) could/would.

So rolling the dice on Kane having done some maturing, and doing better at maximizing his talent with one of McEichel and the Sabres than he did with the oft understaffed Jets is a move I like a lot. I'm not expecting him to become an elite powerforward or anything, but if he can bring his physical game and forechecking while becoming a consistent ~30 goal scorer who chips in 20-25 assists, kills penalties and has the raw talent to change games, when he's on, that'll be big for a sabres team that so lacks that type of exceptional talent. That is why Manbearpig looks like he may have actually found a home there. He's still inconsistent with his production and effort, and is still too often lackadaisical against the puck; but they so desperately need someone who can change a game, and when he wants to, Stewie can absolutely change a game, so he's needed and seems happy to feel needed which is getting him to try a little more and deliver a little less sporadically.
 

cgf

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OT:
Our prospect pool gets way more **** than it deserves. We're stacked between the pipes even if you ignore varly and just look at the pipeline; what with Pickard, Martin, Aittokallio, Will and Plooshy2 (that huge kid we drafted who dropped cause he was hurt and so couldn't fully participate in camp this year, don't remember his name just remember that it reminded me of Palushaj making this season's Landy look firm on his skates).

Defensively:
On the Left: We have a really good set of LHDs; Bigras, Dunk, Gaertsen, Beaupre and possibly Lauridsen if he ever really puts his tools together like Holden sporadically looks like he is doing. A group that's very exciting with Bigras continuing to blow away any ceiling people try to put on him; Dunk and Gaertsen both taking steps to becoming nasty mid-pairing shut down guys; and Beaupre is still around as long term project for shut down gig on the third pairing like Stuart was playing for us before the injuries struck the d-corp.
With only Hejda, Stuart and Holden keeping them off of the NHL club/sheltering their arrival...and Hejda leaving in the summer...it's crucial we bring someone in to play with EJ and bridge the gap, letting Holden and Stuart hold off the kids for second and third pairing spots for as long as they can. But if that 3-5 year EJ partner is brought in, we'll actually be in a really sweet spot at LHD as an organization as our prospect pool at that spot just needs time to develop without being rushed.

On the Right: If you consider that we have EJ and Barrie nailed into the first two RHD spots, we've got a pretty good set up on that side of the defense already. What with the interesting longer term projects; like the gargantuan goal machine Wood, the leader of the young american WJC defense and increasingly defensively responsible NCAA-er Butcher, and the smooth-skating occasional-Wilson-esque-hit-delivering Corbett. Plus the guys nearing the point where they need to crack a lineup but are either still in the AHL or just breaking through to become third pairing NHLers this season; talking Elliott, Not-Stastny (Noreau), and Redmond here.
So even if Redmond is the best we get from those right sided dmen, we should be strong on that side without any further additions, although it's tough not to be intrigued by Wood and Butcher's potential to upgrade upon Zach down the road...assuming Not-Stastny, Elliott or Corbett don't surpass him first.

Forwards:
It's upfront where our prospect pool is a let down, but even there we've got some interesting depth guys and projects who could help fill out our bottom 9 nicely. Everberg and Rendulic lead the way as the imported big bodies, on top of them Schuhmacher seems to be getting closer and closer to earning a contract with organization, and if he can improve his skating some more he won't be far off of those two very soon. Then there's the smurfs; Smith, Bourke, Sgarbossa, Hishon and Agozzino; of whom I feel pretty confident about us getting a legit NHLer (talking non-Porter/Mauldin level) or two...admittedly it is Smith or Bourke who I see replacing Talbot in the bottom 6 (only with hands closer to Briere's), and not Hish or Sgar replacing Tanguay in the top 6...but still each of those guys has something(s) to his game that could well lead to an NHL career. In pure grinder/PKer roles I'm high on both Henley and Condon, although both still have work to do and plenty to prove to get there over the next couple seasons; and Heard seems to finally be finding a spot in Dean's lineup.

Leaving us with the Junior boys where Bleackley is looking like a better shooting and more skilled righty-version of McGinn in the making, and McGinn is already a fine middle 6er, even without being a good defensive player/PKer or the extra skill Bleacks has in his hands. He seems a lock to fill some role for us if he doesn't suffer a Hishon like injury, be it as a complimentary winger for Dutchy or MacK, or in the bottom 6 as Malkin's partner or replacement. One of our few guys who has legit top 6 (and not just middle 6) talent, a high likelihood of reaching it, and the skillset that Roy seems to prefer. After him we've got Magyar and Nantel, of whom I have seen almost literally nothing and so have no clue, although from what I've read both have the skills to turn into something so I'll mention them as possible "interesting long shots".

TL:DR it's really only scoring line wingers we can bank on other than Bleackley, that our system is missing. If we add a high end forward with our first this year, like we should, and if one of the long shots hits or we are able to get another steal with our second round pick, then we'll be at least fine there as well. Elsewhere we have one of the best goalie pipelines; a strong set of LHDs; a bunch of interesting RHD for that spot behind EJ/Barrie; and a whole mess of potential middle- and bottom-6 forwards, with a couple long-shot scoring-line guys in the mix.
 
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