OT: In hindsight

[BrookswasHere44]

Many mistakes in regard to signings / non signings have been made but im curious now that years have passed since Jagrwatch if you consider not signing/ low balling Jagr was a mistake. Dead horse? Yeah totally but its not like i can spit ball this thought with coworkers, etc. So i bring it here. Merge or delete as needed

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[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Viewpoints vary wildly on Jagr.

Personally, I think it's kind of a shame that the Penguins didn't see fit to give him a legitimate offer. Especially (with hindsight as our guide) in favor of Tyler freakin' Kennedy.

The Flyers debacle immediately afterward more or less sealed his fate with most Penguins fans. But I still don't blame him. He didn't get anywhere close to his market value from Shero and I don't blame him for looking elsewhere. Much of this is simply business.

 

[Fordy]

huge mistake and frankly embarrassing for the org.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Yes. Low-balling Jagr and Shero doing his usual "I'll play hardball to get a steal" routine was a mistake, IF that's what actually happened. It's all for naught, though. I don't think he had any legitimate intentions of coming back to Pittsburgh anyway, and Shero floated an offer and made it public to save face and make Jagr look even worse.

I still think Jagr is a jackass and a man-child, but the guy can still play some seriously impressive hockey. We need guys who can play hockey. And ****, maybe Jagr would have set some dummies in the locker room straight.

 

[Kiith Nabaal]

It is something I had spent some time looking into. I don't think the price was the only thing keeping him out. It didn't seem like he was going to be too happy with how he was going to be used here. I don't know how much credibility people give European newspapers after the Vokoun thing, but this article gets a little bit more into detail about that:

http://www.letsgopens.com/tomas_translations.php?id=70

Even the Pittsburgh coach was telling me that Crosby likes speed, fast players. So I figured he does not consider for me to play with [Crosby] much.

I know he played on the third line in Boston, but I don't think he was too crazy about it

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Yeah. There was a lot of talk about Jagr feeling slighted when he supposedly tested the waters in Pittsburgh. Shero low-balled him, and Bylsma told him he would be on the 3rd line, so he'd be paid like a 3rd liner. I'm not sure either of those happened, but Shero and Bylsma are just dumb enough to do exactly that.

Again, I don't REALLY trust any of the information regarding that entire ******** saga. I think both sides were covering their ass by leaking their sides of the story to the media; Shero and Bylsma didn't want him, and knew he wouldn't sign for anything under X-amount, so they offered under that knowing he he'd turn it down. On the other hand, Jagr had no intentions of signing in Pittsburgh, but he had his camp float the idea to the masses to get a bidding war going. He knew he had something to fall back on when he signed with Philly; Shero offered too little, and Bylsma said he'd get no playing time on a scoring line.

In any event, the guy was my hockey idol along with Lemieux when I was little. I think he's a complete jackass off the ice, but I still hold out a glimmer of hope that he'll play one last season here before hanging them up for good in NA. It'll never happen, but it'd make me so happy.

 

[Ozz]

I always wanted him to have ended up here when that went down. By the time the unfolding story jerked everyone around, I joked that he may as well just go to Philly. Then he did

I'd still like to see him come here, I don't know why anyone ever thought he could no longer produce.

 

[Fordy]

Yeah. There was a lot of talk about Jagr feeling slighted when he supposedly tested the waters in Pittsburgh. Shero low-balled him, and Bylsma told him he would be on the 3rd line, so he'd be paid like a 3rd liner. I'm not sure either of those happened, but Shero and Bylsma are just dumb enough to do exactly that.

Again, I don't REALLY trust any of the information regarding that entire ******** saga. I think both sides were covering their ass by leaking their sides of the story to the media; Shero and Bylsma didn't want him, and knew he wouldn't sign for anything under X-amount, so they offered under that knowing he he'd turn it down. On the other hand, Jagr had no intentions of signing in Pittsburgh, but he had his camp float the idea to the masses to get a bidding war going. He knew he had something to fall back on when he signed with Philly; Shero offered too little, and Bylsma said he'd get no playing time on a scoring line.

In any event, the guy was my hockey idol along with Lemieux when I was little. I think he's a complete jackass off the ice, but I still hold out a glimmer of hope that he'll play one last season here before hanging them up for good in NA. It'll never happen, but it'd make me so happy.

you're telling me jagr would have been unsatisfied playing with malkin instead of crosby? i don't buy it, he wants a big role on a team, and he would get that equally here with crosby or malkin

 

[Ugene Magic]

That PP would be elbow to elbow on the RW boards.

Signing with the Flyers was the last straw. I did hope he would return though. Not anymore, and he probably feels he has a home in NJ.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

you're telling me jagr would have been unsatisfied playing with malkin instead of crosby? i don't buy it, he wants a big role on a team, and he would get that equally here with crosby or malkin

Who knows where Bylsma would have played him? Sure, I think he'd be happy as long as he was getting big minutes alongside either Sid or Geno, but I don't know if I'd entrust Bylsma to play him there for any length of time. I think at the slightest hint of Jagr's speed affecting the line, or a drop in production, and Jagr would be on the 3rd line in a heartbeat. Jagr's a dick, but he's not dumb. I'm sure he knew that'd be the case, especially for the price he was supposedly offered by Shero (equal to or less than Kennedy). If you pay Jagr big money, it's pretty much assured he'll be a lock on the top two lines. If you toss him Kennedy-money, A. you know he'll decline, and B. you send an underlying message that he's not exactly the top priority.

 

[Fordy]

Who knows where Bylsma would have played him? Sure, I think he'd be happy as long as he was getting big minutes alongside either Sid or Geno, but I don't know if I'd entrust Bylsma to play him there for any length of time. I think at the slightest hint of Jagr's speed affecting the line, or a drop in production, and Jagr would be on the 3rd line in a heartbeat. Jagr's a dick, but he's not dumb. I'm sure he knew that'd be the case, especially for the price he was supposedly offered by Shero (equal to or less than Kennedy). If you pay Jagr big money, it's pretty much assured he'll be a lock on the top two lines. If you toss him Kennedy-money, A. you know he'll decline, and B. you send an underlying message that he's not exactly the top priority.

we did not have the iginla debacle at that point. no one could have predicted just how deep db's stupidity ran

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

we did not have the iginla debacle at that point. no one could have predicted just how deep db's stupidity ran

But Bylsma's personnel decisions didn't begin with Iginla. That was just the giant neon sign that said "Hey everyone, this guy's a schmuck."

He's been playing Adams religiously since Adams got here. He square-pegged Comrie into a scoring role before the guy's hip exploded. He gave a damn near useless Fedotenko big minutes despite all of the evidence that he was playing at a level that warranted a healthy scratch. I'm sure there's more, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Do we know how much the Penguins offered him? I was always under the impression that it wasn't all that far off from what he took from Philly.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Do we know how much the Penguins offered him? I was always under the impression that it wasn't all that far off from what he took from Philly.

If I remember right, not positive, but it was something around $2M/1yr. So, you're looking at a measly $1.3M less than Philly. Something about that tells me Shero/Bylsma wanted no part of Jagr in any real way. It was more of a "Eh, we offered what we could, he chased money!" type of thing. Easier to pass off to the fanbase than "We weren't interested in the guy many of you grew up idolizing, and want to have a Hallmark ending with this franchise."

 

[penguins2946*]

Do we know how much the Penguins offered him? I was always under the impression that it wasn't all that far off from what he took from Philly.

1 year, $2 million I believe. Same as the Wings. The Pens withdrew their offer when all the crap (turtles at the airport, Jagr missing, ect) happened

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Many mistakes in regard to signings / non signings have been made but im curious now that years have passed since Jagrwatch if you consider not signing/ low balling Jagr was a mistake. Dead horse? Yeah totally but its not like i can spit ball this thought with coworkers, etc. So i bring it here. Merge or delete as needed

It was a huge mistake and was the first sign to me that Shero is afraid of risk and not the right GM for this team.

 

[Fordy]

But Bylsma's personnel decisions didn't begin with Iginla. That was just the giant neon sign that said "Hey everyone, this guy's a schmuck."

He's been playing Adams religiously since Adams got here. He square-pegged Comrie into a scoring role before the guy's hip exploded. He gave a damn near useless Fedotenko big minutes despite all of the evidence that he was playing at a level that warranted a healthy scratch. I'm sure there's more, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.

i honestly thought there was NO WAY he wouldn't play iginla on crosby's wing. there was no doubt in my mind when i heard the news

 

[WVP]

Hard to see this version of Jagr working well with Crosby. Possibly Malkin.

 

[StaalForOne]

I'd have to imagine Shero didn't even make a real offer, because... you know...Jagr would play for league minimum for Mario.

 

[Gurglesons]

Is this really where this forum is going to dissolve to?

Jagr was an unproven commodity that hadn't played in the league for multiple years. Look how the Radulov situation turned out. If Shero had signed Jagr for 3.5 and he was out of the league by now that would be the example of how stupid he is.

Passing on a Jagr is a good decision, we don't need the reputation of employing players that want the highest bid with our cap issues.

 

[DegenX]

In hindsight? I'd rather Shero not have had Z hand deliver an invitation to that alumni thing. Everyone was waxing nostalgic about that first Cup win, but isn't it a little odd that rather than just calling him up and saying 'Hey, Jags ...' they sent an invitation via his fellow countryman? And IIRC, Shero himself was at those IIHF games ... why couldn't he give it to him, personally?

What started as an invitation to play some golf and hang out with former teammates kind of snowballed. I don't think there was ever any intention beyond that, but public reaction kind of painted Shero and company into a corner.

And, I have to wonder at the timing of it ... Pens fans were feeling sentimental over remembering those first Cups, enough time had passed that there was the idea of the prodigal returning, mending fences and making things right. Didn't play out that way, though, did it?

Meh. **** Jagr.

 

[Penguins23]

I think of this every day and I'm still bothered by it. I really wanted Jagr here to kiss and make up with the organization and hopefully have his number retired someday.

 

[Shady Machine]

Is this really where this forum is going to dissolve to?

Jagr was an unproven commodity that hadn't played in the league for multiple years. Look how the Radulov situation turned out. If Shero had signed Jagr for 3.5 and he was out of the league by now that would be the example of how stupid he is.

Passing on a Jagr is a good decision, we don't need the reputation of employing players that want the highest bid with our cap issues.

Uh it was a 1 year deal. If it didn't work out and he wasn't in the league 2 years later, who cares?

That said, I'm not all that upset about it. Jagr wants to be the man wherever he goes. Philly, he played top line, Dallas top line, and now NJ top line. He's a man that is big on money and role equaling respect. The offer Shero gave him was garbage, but there really wasn't a role for him on the top PP or with Crosby. Bylsma could have made it work, of course, but it is what it is.

 

[cassius]

Massive mistake.. and a great example of how this organization values grinders over skill players. Shero's mancrush on 5'8 grinders knows no limits really.

Shero went with Tyler freaking Kennedy over the best non-canadian player to ever play the sport. Yikes.

If the goal is to accumulate the largest quantity of undersized grinders who can't score.. Then you go with Kennedy.

If you want to win Stanley Cups, you go with Jagr.

Shero with with Kennedy.

 

[Burgs]

And how many Stanley Cups has Jagr won on a team where he was the #1 guy? Exactly. Pens made him a fair offer based on what Jagr himself had said about wanting to play for Mario. Turns out the greedy POS was lying through his teeth as usual, and went off to our hated rival for a little more cash. If Shero made a mistake it was thinking Jagr had a real interest in mending fences instead of just trying to start a bidding war. How anyone can still be pining for this guy I'll never understand. He doesn't give a **** about Pittsburgh, and hasn't for years.