Proposal: Improving Toronto.

[Mackiaveli]

I suspect this isn't going to be well received by Leafs fans; not necessarily because the value is far off, but because moving certain players for Toronto fans will be a certain and immediate no.

please no flame 8)

Trade 1:

Toronto trades Marner to LA for Doughty (1m retained)

This trade is the one I suspect that Leafs fans are going to get mad at the most. I understand that in the world where you have the money for Doughty, you could just choose to resign Marner ... and I agree, that there is an argument to be made where that is the better option.

Doughty is still, arguably, the best defensman in the NHL (for all intents and purposes). He would come in and instantly make Toronto's defensive corps better tenfold, and with his Stanley Cup experience he brings much more to the table than just his tangibles which are already impressive enough.

Despite being an RFA, Marner is worth the lot. He is one of the best young players in the NHL, and he is a serious piece to rebuild a team around. Alternatively, if he chooses to explore his options in free agency, a compensatory package of FOUR first round picks and the relieving of ten million dollars in cap space allows LA to really hit the reset button on their franchise.
--------------------

Trade 2:

Toronto trades Nazem Kadri + Connor Brown + Toronto's 2021 2nd (Conditional Resigning) to Colorado for Tyson Barrie (50% retained)

This trade is one I feel both sides are going to have fans who like it, and fans who don't like it. Barrie's contract status is the >only< reason that the Leafs would be able to get him for so cheap; but Kadri's contract in itself is a gift. The Avalanche add a legit 2C who can help give Colorado much needed offensive depth, and with the addition of a center they are free to draft Bowen Byram as a future partner for Cale Makar without feeling guilty for not taking Turcotte.

Barrie should be easy to re-up for the Leafs when they use Marleau's cap space.
-------------------

Trade 3:

Toronto trades Nikita Zaitsev + their 2nd round picks in 2019 and 2020 to Ottawa for Ottawa's 2020 3rd and CBJ's 2020 3rd.

Self explanatory trade; get rid of Zaitsev.
-------------------

These trades will largely come as "all-in" moves, and I would agree that they are. Yes, they lose Marner and Kadri, but they also end up adding some phenomenal defensive players and give themselves serious cap relief while bettering their team. They can also do trades 2/3 without moving Marner; however as a neutral fan I am of the belief that they can not and will not ever win a cup without fixing their defense first and foremost.

Proposed Lines would be:

Hyman/Tavares/Kapanen
Johnsson/Matthews/Nylander
Marleau/Gauthier/Bracco
Grundstrom/X/Moore

Rielly/Doughty
Muzzin/Barrie
Dermott/Liljegren
Sandin

Click to read more...

 

[sansabri]

Isn't Melnyk still the owner.

 

[Empoleon8771]

That Colorado deal had me in stitches.

It's going to cost more than that to get someone to take Zaitsev's contract and the Marner-Doughty deal is probably also a no, although that's probably a no from both sides.

 

[Toby Flenderson]

Not a leafs fan, but I honestly don’t think Marner for Doughty is such a bad idea. Especially since they said they don’t see Marner making “Kane money”, I wonder if he’ll want to stay.

I would expand it though, because Tor would need some offense coming back and the King’s could use a defender.

Marner, Liljegren, Zaitsev for Doughty and Toffoli?

 

[Dog]

Grundstrom was traded to LA. Marner for Doughty is a big no-no for leafs. The rest make more sense though.

 

[AndreRoy]

Don’t see either side doing the Marner for Doughty trade and nobody is going to take Zaitsev that cheaply.

 

[Masked Superstar]

So the plan is to lose 3 trades to improve

 

[Liferleafer]

The only 1 i'd consider is #3. Barrie is not the style of D Toronto needs...ad as good as Doughty is, you don't trade a 21 year old that just put up 90+ points for a 30 year old. And the Kings would pass as well on that one.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I think marner for doughty is fair for both sides.
I think the 2nd trade is pretty good value for Colorado, but idk how much room the avs will have after the offseason to retain that much.

3rd trade /shrug looks alright but idk that ott does it.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think marner for doughty is fair for both sides.
I think the 2nd trade is pretty good value for Colorado, but idk how much room the avs will have after the offseason to retain that much.

3rd trade /shrug looks alright but idk that ott does it.

Habs fan and I'm going to back up the Leafs on this one.

Leafs could use Doughty but not at the cost of Marner. Doughty is 29, not 25. In 5 years, the Leafs regret this trade but if they win a cup, they might be OK with it. However, their current cup window is more than 5 years so this is not fair to the Leafs.

The 7 year age gap favors the Kings. In 5 years, Marner is 27 in the middle of his prime and Doughty is 34 and heading towards the mid 30's decline years.

 

[Legion34]

The only 1 i'd consider is #3. Barrie is not the style of D Toronto needs...ad as good as Doughty is, you don't trade a 21 year old that just put up 90+ points for a 30 year old. And the Kings would pass as well on that one.

You dont trade for 2 d when you will lose 1 in the expansion draft

 

[Eye Test]

Habs fans and I'm going to back up the Leafs on this one.

Leafs could use Doughty but not at the cost of Marner. Doughty is 29, not 25. In 5 years, the Leafs regret this trade but if they win a cup, they might be OK with it. However, their current cup window is more than 5 years so this is not fair to the Leafs.

The 7 year age gap favors the Kings. In 5 years, Marner is 27 in the middle of his prime and Doughty is 34 and heading towards the mid 30's decline years.

What did you do with TooLegitToQuit and who is this imposter ?

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

Marner for Doughty would be an insanely stupid deal for Toronto to execute.

Barrie isn't what the Leafs need at RD.

It'll cost more than that to dump Zaitsev, and I doubt Melnyk will want to acquire/eat that contract.

No dice on all three.

 

[Habs Halifax]

What did you do with TooLegitToQuit and who is this imposter ?

I'm a pretty fair person and I have a lot of friends as Leafs fans out here in the east coast. I'm use to going to war on a debate and agreeing on other things.

One thing I went to war on with several Leafs fans here on the East coast about about what to do with Nylander (pre-signing). I said the best thing to do is flip him for futures. The answers I got is the Leafs don't need futures but I disagree. Your window to win is not 3 years, it's 5-10 years. What is going to be the biggest challenge moving forward? The Salary cap. If you flipped Nylander for a very good trending Grade A piece at RD and a few picks, this greatly helps your ability to insert ELC in the coming years. Good luck trading Nylander for that return now.

What are the Pens and Blackhawks problems in recent years? Salary cap and trading away picks. They don't have good prospects filling holes on ELC's.

- Traded a 2nd for Pleky
- Traded two good prospects and a 1st for Muzzin.

Should of signed Tavares and stayed the course. Keep your picks cause this is the best way you are going to improve your team in the 5-10 year cup window you have.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I suspect this isn't going to be well received by Leafs fans; not necessarily because the value is far off, but because moving certain players for Toronto fans will be a certain and immediate no.

please no flame 8)

Trade 1:

Toronto trades Marner to LA for Doughty (1m retained)

This trade is the one I suspect that Leafs fans are going to get mad at the most. I understand that in the world where you have the money for Doughty, you could just choose to resign Marner ... and I agree, that there is an argument to be made where that is the better option.

Doughty is still, arguably, the best defensman in the NHL (for all intents and purposes). He would come in and instantly make Toronto's defensive corps better tenfold, and with his Stanley Cup experience he brings much more to the table than just his tangibles which are already impressive enough.

Despite being an RFA, Marner is worth the lot. He is one of the best young players in the NHL, and he is a serious piece to rebuild a team around. Alternatively, if he chooses to explore his options in free agency, a compensatory package of FOUR first round picks and the relieving of ten million dollars in cap space allows LA to really hit the reset button on their franchise.
--------------------

Trade 2:

Toronto trades Nazem Kadri + Connor Brown + Toronto's 2021 2nd (Conditional Resigning) to Colorado for Tyson Barrie (50% retained)

This trade is one I feel both sides are going to have fans who like it, and fans who don't like it. Barrie's contract status is the >only< reason that the Leafs would be able to get him for so cheap; but Kadri's contract in itself is a gift. The Avalanche add a legit 2C who can help give Colorado much needed offensive depth, and with the addition of a center they are free to draft Bowen Byram as a future partner for Cale Makar without feeling guilty for not taking Turcotte.

Barrie should be easy to re-up for the Leafs when they use Marleau's cap space.
-------------------

Trade 3:

Toronto trades Nikita Zaitsev + their 2nd round picks in 2019 and 2020 to Ottawa for Ottawa's 2020 3rd and CBJ's 2020 3rd.

Self explanatory trade; get rid of Zaitsev.
-------------------

These trades will largely come as "all-in" moves, and I would agree that they are. Yes, they lose Marner and Kadri, but they also end up adding some phenomenal defensive players and give themselves serious cap relief while bettering their team. They can also do trades 2/3 without moving Marner; however as a neutral fan I am of the belief that they can not and will not ever win a cup without fixing their defense first and foremost.

Proposed Lines would be:

Hyman/Tavares/Kapanen
Johnsson/Matthews/Nylander
Marleau/Gauthier/Bracco
Grundstrom/X/Moore

Rielly/Doughty
Muzzin/Barrie
Dermott/Liljegren
Sandin

No Gauthier CAN NOT be the #3 center he can barely be a #4 and I mean BARELY

 

[Echo Roku]

That’s a lot of cap dump on the Avs

Only reason it actually seems potentially doable is that it’s half just this year, between Brown and Barrie money retained

Barrie only has a real chance to get traded if the Avs get Bryam or if Barrie’s extension negotiations go very poorly

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Habs fan and I'm going to back up the Leafs on this one.

Leafs could use Doughty but not at the cost of Marner. Doughty is 29, not 25. In 5 years, the Leafs regret this trade but if they win a cup, they might be OK with it. However, their current cup window is more than 5 years so this is not fair to the Leafs.

The 7 year age gap favors the Kings. In 5 years, Marner is 27 in the middle of his prime and Doughty is 34 and heading towards the mid 30's decline years.

While I agree to an extent... I also don't think the kings have a reason to move doughty for anything less then marner. I mean what could they realistically do to try to get the kings to move doughty w/o marner? Zaitsev + Nylander + Sandin +?

D > W... Toronto without marner still have a pretty strong wing group.

I don't think anyone in the league is going to trade a young #1 RHD for marner unless hes on the back end of his 20s. So then the question becomes who can the leafs realistically get for the assets they have... and is a guy like Barrie enough?

 

[Habs Halifax]

While I agree to an extent... I also don't think the kings have a reason to move doughty for anything less then marner. I mean what could they realistically do to try to get the kings to move doughty w/o marner? Zaitsev + Nylander + Sandin +?

D > W... Toronto without marner still have a pretty strong wing group.

I don't think anyone in the league is going to trade a young #1 RHD for marner unless hes on the back end of his 20s. So then the question becomes who can the leafs realistically get for the assets they have... and is a guy like Barrie enough?

Leafs pry away value for Marner >> Kings pry away value for Doughty. Doughty has 5 or 6 good years left while Marner has 12 or 13 good years.

 

[Khelandros]

When replacing Marner falls to Bracco, you know you got problems.

 

[Kelly]

Real nice of Ottawa to take Zaitzev to move up a round (if that) in two draft.

Also Marner for Doughty is an easy no from me, age difference being the reason.

 

[4chandler]

Lol, Rielly and Doughty are on the same pair? They split the puck? Do they argue on the ice over who carries it out.

Barrie? lulz

Doughty is the best NHL defenseman in 2019 and he's only getting better through that contract. Sit down Hedman, Leafs would have Drew and Tyson... Epic

 

[Mats26]

I'm a pretty fair person and I have a lot of friends as Leafs fans out here in the east coast. I'm use to going to war on a debate and agreeing on other things.

One thing I went to war on with several Leafs fans here on the East coast about about what to do with Nylander (pre-signing). I said the best thing to do is flip him for futures. The answers I got is the Leafs don't need futures but I disagree. Your window to win is not 3 years, it's 5-10 years. What is going to be the biggest challenge moving forward? The Salary cap. If you flipped Nylander for a very good trending Grade A piece at RD and a few picks, this greatly helps your ability to insert ELC in the coming years. Good luck trading Nylander for that return now.

What are the Pens and Blackhawks problems in recent years? Salary cap and trading away picks. They don't have good prospects filling holes on ELC's.

- Traded a 2nd for Pleky
- Traded two good prospects and a 1st for Muzzin.

Should of signed Tavares and stayed the course. Keep your picks cause this is the best way you are going to improve your team in the 5-10 year cup window you have.

Let's be realistic, Tavares is 34 in 5 years. No one knows what their team will look like next year, let alone in 5-10 years.
Being a good team but with cap problems shortens that window because the supporting roster players added to the core need to be good and cheap. Trades, drafting and development is key. Some luck and chemistry can land you a cup, but the dynasty days are long over.

 

[Kamiccolo]

I'm noting a trend of proposals for Barrie to the Leafs where they pay full value, despite him being 1 year away from free agency.

Yet I recall Leaf fans trying to trade JVR on here when he had 2 years left, and people saying they wouldn't be interested at any decent price because he was a 2 year rental lol.

If Dubas traded a 2nd line C signed long term, a guy worth at least a 2nd, and another 2nd for a pending UFA given that the team already can't afford to sign these guys and he would all but walk in a year, he should be fired.

And this board would roast Dubas if that deal went through don't even deny it.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

That's not making the leafs better. It's making the defense better while making the team worse

 

[4chandler]

Let's be realistic, Tavares is 34 in 5 years. No one knows what their team will look like next year, let alone in 5-10 years.
Being a good team but with cap problems shortens that window because the supporting roster players added to the core need to be good and cheap. Trades, drafting and development is key. Some luck and chemistry can land you a cup, but the dynasty days are long over.

With a short enough bench Auston might get double shifted in an elimination game.

Depth ended the Leafs season.