Speculation: Impact of Budget on Team Culture/Morale

[alfierulestheworld]

We're not struggling financially. Melnyk is just being a ****.

Tv viewership, attendance, ticket prices, etc. The numbers are good. We are easily doing better than most of the league.

If this franchise is not financially viable, then over half the league isn't.

Its caled $150M of debt, at double digit interest rates....... sadly

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

I just thought of our theme if we make the playoffs... "Money Puck"

Money Puck is how a large bunch of hfboards posters pretend they understand hockey. Corsi, +/- and fenwick yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay.

WHat did Tim Murray say about Corsi?

Yup.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Money Puck is how a large bunch of hfboards posters pretend they understand hockey. Corsi, +/- and fenwick yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay.

WHat did Tim Murray say about Corsi?

Yup.

"They’re useful. I think, and I don’t want to talk down, but I think they’re very useful, the less you know about the game. And I think they’re useful to guys like me too a little bit, for sure. But if you don’t know what hockey sense is as a casual fan, I think they’re very useful. I think you see a guy that drives puck possession through numbers and it tells you a little bit that he has hockey sense. So I think the casual fan that doesn’t quite get what hockey sense is, and different things like that, I can understand totally why these are useful stats.â€

http://www.the6thsens.com/2014-articles/january/tim-murray-speaks-in-buffalo.html

suck it corsi

 

[RingoCalamity]

It can't not have an effect. You think the players don't know? It affects expectations. I know that I'm willing to go the extra mile when I feel like my boss has my back. If I was a Sen, I don't think I would feel like Eugene Melnyk had my back. You're just expected to compete. Your own owner isn't interested in spending enough to win. Just enough to look good in losing.

People point out that there wasn't really anyone out there worth spending the money on last off season. They're not wrong. But why talk about how you couldn't afford to add someone? Why not just say, there wasn't anyone we were interested in at those prices? It's self sabotage. It's bad messaging to tell your employees that you can't add, instead of saying that it wasn't worth it.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

I'm going solely off the topic of this thread.

Can impact of budget on team impact team morale?

100% yes.

Why? We have a number 1 goalie, we have a top 3 player in the game and we have a number 1 center.

We have all the pieces necessary needed to be a contender except a few extra pieces that could be obtained if we don't have internal budget.

MacArthur-Turris-Ryan
Michalek-Spezza-Alfredsson

Methot-Karlsson
Ceci-Top 4 via trade

Ottawa would not be in the same position they are now.

That has to grind the gears of players like Anderson, Karlsson and Spezza who are premium stars who want to win now but don't see same dedication by their owner.

Especially guys like Karlsson who may end up thinking their talents are taken for granted and therefore chose to play elsewhere.

Go check out why everyone LOVES Detroit so much.

Now, I'm not saying let's all go panic. Nor am I blaming anyone. I'm just saying it can and it eventually will if it keeps up.

 

[Boud]

To be honest, I think a lot of people are overreacting the situation. Yes I agree, the internal budget is not something that is good for the team but we are in the second year of a REBUILD. We are lucky to be contending for a playoff spot, and were even luckier to be in the playoffs last year (considering a rebuilt, not our players). We have a good team with a lot of young talented players. This team showed us last year that we can win if we persevere and work hard. This year, the team was different. Our style completely changed and our expectations went from nothing to contenders thanks to the acquisitions of Ryan and MaCarthur and all the young guys expected to continue onto their good seasons. Truth is, this team got even younger losing Gonchar and Alfy, and especially on defense it made a big difference. We still have a very young defense if not the youngest in the league. We have to expect this kind of season, we cant forget how hard we played to achieve what we did last season and how many games did we win by 1 goal...

This team is a young team and the way I see it, we cant be contenders at this point. We still have a bunch of young players who need to devellop in ordrr for us to be a great team.Guys like Lazar, Ceci,Cowen,Wiercoch,Gryba,Zibanejad,Puempel,Pageau,Stone,Lehner all need to devellop. Melnyk can spend all he wants on UFAs and trade for players with huge contracts but why? We have a young team who will be great in a couple years. I agree, when our young players will be at theeir potential or close , then go get some experienced guys. At this point and time, I like where this team is headed but we need to be patient.

I know this has probably been brought up but look at the Rangers when they had all those stars and didnt mount to anything, or look at the latvians. We need to stop making excuses. We have great players and we have to believe in this team without always blaming on some outside sources. Melnyk is being strict to his budget, maybe, but we are not contenders either.. Cant spend to make the fans happy

Players know we have a young team, and they know that this team will be great in the years to come. These guys need to focus on the game an not on wheter or not the Owner is spending money or not. It sure didnt stop us from getting Ales Hemsky. If Eugene sees that this team is on the right path for a run lets say next year, I dont believe he wont give Murray the OK to get a good player or good players just because of the budget. Im sure he aould be willing to help this team in the right situation.

 

[EssendonBombers]

Before the season, Sens fans: We have a great young roster. We're poised to get better as the young guns get more experience.

After the team struggles: Melnyk is pennypinching. We needed a veteran presence. SpENd MoRE moNeieys LlOlOlOllolOLolOl

Melnyk's issues were identified far earlier than the Sens started struggling. Have a look at Travis Yost's posts throughout the offseason. There was concerns about funds even before the Alfie fiasco.

It's pretty easy to be frustrated by an incompetent, dishonest and money-grubbing owner when his cheapness results in the departure of the most popular, legendary and best player in the history of the team.

 

[The Lewler]

So in a year in which we picked up both Bobby Ryan and Ales Hemsky, everything is still **** and noone is happy.

Good times in Sens Land.

 

[BonkTastic]

So in a year in which we picked up both Bobby Ryan and Ales Hemsky, everything is still **** and noone is happy.

Good times in Sens Land.

In a year in which we might miss the playoffs, which may have been entirely avoidable had we not had budget issues, there are legitimate complaints about certain aspects of the team and there are those who are not happy.


What I personally don't get is this idea that YOU ARE ANGRY AND HATE EVERYTHING, or YOU ARE HAPPY AND THE TEAM IS INFALLIBLE. I am excited about the team's future, yet worried about how that future might be impacted by a waning financial commitment to the on-ice product.

We're not allowed to be excited about (Thing A), and worried about (Thing B)?

 

[StefanW]

Hemsky was available all year long. If we were willing to spend to get him even 2 months ago we would have had a much improved shot at the post season. For those *****ing about the picks we gave up to get him, we had to pay two picks instead of one in order to get the Oilers to pick up half of his remaining contract (even though there is ample cap room). We also had to let Conacher walk in order to make room in the budget.

Those examples of how the budget has impacted on present and future all revolve around only one player. Multiply that out by many such decisions throughout this season and fan frustration becomes perfectly understandable.

 

[StefanW]

In a year in which we might miss the playoffs, which may have been entirely avoidable had we not had budget issues, there are legitimate complaints about certain aspects of the team and there are those who are not happy.


What I personally don't get is this idea that YOU ARE ANGRY AND HATE EVERYTHING, or YOU ARE HAPPY AND THE TEAM IS INFALLIBLE. I am excited about the team's future, yet worried about how that future might be impacted by a waning financial commitment to the on-ice product.

We're not allowed to be excited about (Thing A), and worried about (Thing B)?

...and this ^ as well.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

meh...at this point I'll worry about it if we see a bunch of Mayflower trucks parked outside CTC.

Let's just get this crazy season over with and see what happens in the summer.

 

[sens4life]

Given what you know about Karlsson, what do you think his feelings are about Melnyk, given the Alfie debacle and the lack of spending this year?

I think we can pretty much kiss Karlsson goodbye at the end of his contract, if not sooner, all because of Melnyk's refusal to spend.

 

[Busboy]

In a year in which we might miss the playoffs, which may have been entirely avoidable had we not had budget issues, there are legitimate complaints about certain aspects of the team and there are those who are not happy.


What I personally don't get is this idea that YOU ARE ANGRY AND HATE EVERYTHING, or YOU ARE HAPPY AND THE TEAM IS INFALLIBLE. I am excited about the team's future, yet worried about how that future might be impacted by a waning financial commitment to the on-ice product.

We're not allowed to be excited about (Thing A), and worried about (Thing B)?

I just don't understand why money is used as the main issue so often without anyone providing good examples of how we should be spending money.

It's misguided and simplistic and fans are rallying together now because of it to not buy tickets or support the team. This only compounds the possible issue and hurts the team and the morale of the fan base.

It's fine to be worried about the financials, it's the reality Of a small market team. But let's noy pretend that money is why the team is under performing this year or is somehow a guarantee to lprevent us from moving up in the standings moving forward.

At the start of the season most posters believed our roster was good enough to be a playoff team and now the revisionists are trying to paint the past offseason as a failure to spend despite the fact we made the biggest trade of the summer and one of the best signings.

If spending an extra $10 million is really going to make a difference the let's wait to see how this offseason goes before we start writing letters to the owner or asking fans to boycott the team. We can find any combination of 5 million dollar players every July. Our team has not been negatively impacted by the budget so far except possibly with the Alfie situation, but that's really only speculation and his career is coming to an end anyways.

 

[SuperDuper101]

Its caled $150M of debt, at double digit interest rates....... sadly

That debt is his own fault though is it not? He re-financed the team multiple times to put the team in this situation when there didn't seem to be any need to do so. Plus, when he sells the team he'll make all that back anyways so it hardly hurts him. Although yeah... he's gotta get the debt under control before he can spend. That much is true and if the debt is really the main issue than maybe he's just being practical and trying to pay it down. Realistically though if he can't afford to do more than just pay the interest or if he's paying more than 1-3% on that debt he needs to sell the team.

 

[Larionov]

Given what you know about Karlsson, what do you think his feelings are about Melnyk, given the Alfie debacle and the lack of spending this year?

I think we can pretty much kiss Karlsson goodbye at the end of his contract, if not sooner, all because of Melnyk's refusal to spend.

I will guarantee you that Karlsson's thinks about Melnyk FAR less than we do. What Karlsson cares about is that his cheques get deposited in the bank on time, and for the full amount. These guys are professionals, and in many ways are far less emotionally invested in this than we are. This is not to suggest they aren't trying hard - far from it. For these guys, though, this is a job they do, and as such they are a bit emotionally distanced from the issues that we spend so much time on.

On the Alfie departure thing, I am reminded of Messier leaving New York to go to Vancouver. He and Gretzky had just been back together for a year, but Vancouver came in with a big offer, he felt "disrespected" by the Rangers, and off he went. He and Gretzky were still buddies, but Messier had to look out for No. 1, and Gretzky of all people understood that.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

I'm going solely off the topic of this thread.

Can impact of budget on team impact team morale?

100% yes.

Why? We have a number 1 goalie, we have a top 3 player in the game and we have a number 1 center.

We have all the pieces necessary needed to be a contender except a few extra pieces that could be obtained if we don't have internal budget.

MacArthur-Turris-Ryan
Michalek-Spezza-Alfredsson

Methot-Karlsson
Ceci-Top 4 via trade

Ottawa would not be in the same position they are now.

That has to grind the gears of players like Anderson, Karlsson and Spezza who are premium stars who want to win now but don't see same dedication by their owner.

Especially guys like Karlsson who may end up thinking their talents are taken for granted and therefore chose to play elsewhere.

Go check out why everyone LOVES Detroit so much.

Now, I'm not saying let's all go panic. Nor am I blaming anyone. I'm just saying it can and it eventually will if it keeps up.

I don't believe the internal budget has any effect on the players until it is the direct cause for an exodus of talent.

While some may point to the Alfie situation, I think that had more to do with damaged relationships than money. IMO the problems started prior to the start of the 2012-13 season and it wasn't about money or budget then.

Regarding your proposed changes, I think you are being optimistic thinking the team would have had more success just by adding Alfie and an unnamed top 4 D.

Fact is Spezza and Michalek had a poor first half of the season, Karlsson struggled early and Ceci wasn't even on the team, let alone in the top 4.

This aside, the bottom six also needed then and now upgrading as well.

Of interest, who would be this top 4 D, and what assets would it take to acquire him?

In all due respect, anyone can put together a line up suggesting it would be more competitive, but is it realistically achievable.

The fact is the Senators are not finished the rebuild, the young guys need to continue to develop and there will be more youth added as well.

The bottom six on the team just isn't good enough, it needs upgrades for the team to compete with the real challengers for the cup.

While no one can question Detroit's long playoff appearance run and cup success, the current version of the Wings is barely a playoff team, same as they were last year.

For the difference of four points in the standings, at an additional cost to Detroit of more than $11M, I'm not sure who is better position going forward.

With 19 games remaining, with the improved play of Spezza and the addition of Hemsky, it is as likely Ottawa squeaks in to the playoffs as it is Detroit.

It is equally likely both miss the post season.

 

[83DIZ65]

Id imagine its a negative effect.....but that being said....HOW THE **** DO WE KNOW? I do know it pisses me off.

 

[aragorn]

While I also think Ottawa has all of the peices to be a cup contender with a slight tweak here & there their biggest problem is whether these players can live up to their hype & play to their potential. I think this team struggles with the way the finese players want to play & the way the coach wants them to play.

PM seems to want them to play a 200' game, he's want them to compete hard to be tough to play against, to hit & develop a tough reputation. I'm not sure a number of our players want to play that style, guys like Spezza, Karlsson, Ryan, Condra, Wiercioch & a few others seem to prefer a finese game to a tough hard nosed game. I think they are a better team if they play a tougher rougher style game the way the coach wants as opposed to a finese game which I have never liked. I think they turn over the puck & give it away too much playing a finese game but on the other hand maybe they take too many penalties playing a tougher game & they also need to reduce penalties dramatically. We'll see how they finish the season but if they don't finish well there could be a few more unexpected changes to this lineup this summer.

 

[Hammertyme]

These guys are professionals. Many players would not be here if were were a cap team. They do what they can to win.I'm assuming they are trying to win. I'm not sure why everyone wants it to be a cap team, alas, lose money. I like to see them stay in Ottawa and not get pulled into some bigger market and become a cap team there.

 

[TeamRenzo]

But Melnyk IS penny-pinching and we did lose an important veteran presence because of this.

I fail to see the point of your post.

Which veteran did we lose due to penny-pinching? Are we talking Alfie?

Blaming Alfie's departure on Melnyk is foolish, if you dont think that Alfie had Detroit in his mind for while then you are kidding yourself.

 

[BonkTastic]

Which veteran did we lose due to penny-pinching? Are we talking Alfie?

Blaming Alfie's departure on Melnyk is foolish, if you dont think that Alfie had Detroit in his mind for while then you are kidding yourself.

Well, that's some revisionist, near-historical fiction if I've ever heard it.

 

[HSF]

people are blaming money for our problems this year? Come on guys when will we start giving some heat on the players on the ice? Until our defense plays better ie Cowen/Karlsson/Weir CONSISTANTLY we wont go anywhere.

Those guys do deserve a chance though the worst thing we can do is do another bishop deal

 

[HSF]

Well, that's some revisionist, near-historical fiction if I've ever heard it.

almost like how going into the season people were fairly sure we would make the playoffs and be higher than Mtl and Tor....now we just dont have enough money or talent

losing a top 6 forward and bringing in THREE for the year is pretty damn good imo

 

[HSF]

Given what you know about Karlsson, what do you think his feelings are about Melnyk, given the Alfie debacle and the lack of spending this year?

I think we can pretty much kiss Karlsson goodbye at the end of his contract, if not sooner, all because of Melnyk's refusal to spend.

tell me what we know about karlsson...if anything Karlsson is counting the days he becomes captain knowing how confident he is