If the Pens win the Cup, what does Rinne have to do to win the Smythe?

[Boxscore]

Let me preface this by saying, I am 150% rooting for the Preds and hope (and think they will) beat the Pens. That said, Rinne has 0% chance of winning the Conn Smythe IMO.

And, I know I'm gonna get heat for this, but I think he's been one of the LEAST impressive Predators all things considered these playoffs (which is crazy because they're in the Cup Finals). I think the Preds are winning IN SPITE of Rinne. I watched games these playoffs where he's let in awful goals at the worst times and the Preds still raly to win. Last night was an example... the Preds battle all the way back and Rinne lets in a short-side, back-breaking goal. Yes, the shot was a good shot, but Rinne was terrible with cutting off the angle. There's no way that puck shouldn't have hit Rinne in the shoulder if he played the angle correctly.

Rinne needs to make the HUGE saves at crucial times, starting immediately.

Now... GO PREDS!

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

You were a day late posting this. He needs 3 shutouts now and a game 7 OT loss to win the Smythe.

 

[GrkFlyersFan]

He'd have to make Forsberg disappear and he'd start playing like he did in the first two rounds. While he's had some great stretches in the playoffs, IMO he's their biggest question mark right now. Gibson's injury and Bernier playing like he was back in Toronto obscured a very up and down WCF for him.

Going back to game 1 against the Ducks, the first shot of the series beat him clean from the perimeter. It was a bomb but you can't get beat from there as an NHL goalie.

His performance in game 2 was worse than last night. Vatanen's goal to put Anaheim on the board was brutal and Richie's GWG was even worse. There was a lot of chaos on the Ducks' third goal so that one goes in the stoppable but not soft category.

Game 4 - Rakell's goal to open the scoring was definitely soft, the second goal was less clear cut as it's tough to judge how well he was able to track the shot through the defenseman's legs.

Don't get me wrong. When Rinne is playing well, he has a combination of size and athleticism that makes me wonder how anyone ever scores on him. He's perfectly capable of completely shutting Pittsburgh down for the rest of the series. I just think he's been pretty inconsistent lately.

Edit: BTW, Marty was robbed in '03.

Well those 16 save shutouts were impressive(sarcasm)

 

[Pharrell Williams]

You were a day late posting this. He needs 3 shutouts now and a game 7 OT loss to win the Smythe.

i was going to but then i forgot to but figured i would post it anyway just for fun even though everybody is pretty much in consensus that it is impossible or he would need 3 shutouts and 3 1-0 losses to scorers who are not malkin or crosby but still.

 

[Hockeyholic]

If he keeps playing like last night, the Penguins should petition for Rinne to win the CS. After all, he would be their most " Valuable" player right?

Otherwise, no shot at all.

 

[madinsomniac]

For a guy on a losing team to get it the winning team has to have few legit contenders... its likely the pens will finish with the playoffs leading scorer, goalscorer, and assist guy... it will be hard to ignore a crosby or malkin for a losing goalie... if the preds win though its prett much gonna be him most likely

 

[SpeedDemon]

Would be extremely unlikely, particular after last night. With Crosby and Malkin putting up big point #s in the playoffs, they would both have to go ice cold the rest of the way and Rinne pick up a couple shutouts on the way to a 7 game loss to even bring it up. I think he pretty much has no chance at this point.

Malkin and Crosby are expected to put points. Not to mention the Penguins can win without Malkin and Crosby.

That's why the trophy is given to "the player viewed most valuable to his team in the playoffs.." (i.e. the one player the team would not have won without). I don't care if Malkin and Crosby both put up 60 points. It's what they're expected to do.

Without Rinne the Preds wouldn't be in the Stanley Cup Final. Considering they lost 2 of their top 6 early to mid into the playoffs and are still here the only way I see Rinne not winning is the same way I see the Penguins winning games right now............ BRIBERY!!!!!

You look at the '98 Finals. I think Vanbiesbrouck was robbed of the Conn Smythe despite the fact that the Panthers got swept by the Avs that year.

Now If Guentzel end up leading the team in scoring (maybe scores the cup winning coal) While Crosby and Malkin come up empty ............ by all means give it Guentzel.

That's I didn't like Brad Richards winning the Conn Smythe in '04 when Tampa won the Cup. Because he did not perform a role that was above what was expected.

 

[PWiz30]

Well those 16 save shutouts were impressive(sarcasm)

There were some of those, but he also had two 29 save shutouts and two 24 save shutouts, one of which was a 1-0 win over Ottawa, who won the President's Trophy that season. Not to mention 3 shutouts including game 7 plus a 1-0 overtime loss in the finals.

Also, 1 goal or fewer allowed in 12 of 24 playoff games. In those 12 games he averaged just over 25 shots per game.

 

[Pick87your71Poison]

Malkin and Crosby are expected to put points. Not to mention the Penguins can win without Malkin and Crosby.

That's why the trophy is given to "the player viewed most valuable to his team." (i.e. the one player the team would not have won without). I don't care if Malkin and Crosby both put up 60 points. It's what they're expected to do.

Without Rinne the Preds wouldn't be in the Stanley Cup Final. Considering they lost 2 of their top 6 early to mid into the playoffs and are still here the only way I see Rinne not winning is the same way I see the Penguins winning games right now............ BRIBERY!!!!!

You look at the '98 Finals. I think Vanbiesbrouck was robbed of the Conn Smythe despite the fact that the Panthers got swept by the Avs that year.

The award is not for most most outstanding unexpected performance... it's just for the best player... period. So guys like Gretzky and Lemieux should never have won it then because obviously they were expected to have huge production every year so nothing they do should justify winning it.

You are defining the award in a way you want it to be, but not what it is actually awarded for.

The Pens can win what exactly without Crosby and Malkin anyway? They tried it once and lost in the first round... so it seems those guys may be pretty important.

 

[SpeedDemon]

The award is not for most most outstanding unexpected performance... it's just for the best player... period. So guys like Gretzky and Lemieux should never have won it then because obviously they were expected to have huge production every year so nothing they do should justify winning it.

You are defining the award in a way you want it to be, but not what it is actually awarded for.

The Pens can win what exactly without Crosby and Malkin anyway? They tried it once and lost in the first round... so it seems those guys may be pretty important.

The way it reads is "awarded to the player judged most valuable to his team during the playoffs." Unless they changed it the past two years. In my book MOST valuable is the one they might not have won without.

btw- would it have been wrong to have Matt Murray win the Conn Smythe last year instead of Sidney Crosby. I mean seriously when Fleury went down the Pens chances were seriously in doubt. Would they have won with Zatkoff in net even if Malkin and Crosby scored hat tricks every other game????

 

[Pick87your71Poison]

The way it reads is "awarded to the player judged most valuable to his team during the playoffs." Unless the changed it the past two years."

btw- would it have been wrong to have Matt Murray win the Conn Smythe last year instead of Sidney Crosby. I mean seriously when Fleury went down the Pens chances were seriously in doubt. Would they have won with Zatkoff in net???

Yes, exactly so it doesn't matter what the expectations of the player were. Crosby and Malkin being expected to produce has absolutely 0 impact on what they actually do on the ice.

And no Murray wouldn't have been horrible, he was def in the mix of 4-5 guys that people mentioned having a shot. Crosby, Kessel, Letang, Murray, Bonino prob in that order or so.

 

[madinsomniac]

nobody ever votes for an mvp award based on how much their team needs them... its called an mvp but its awarded to the best player by performance and they often look at the impact to the finals more than the rest of the playoffs as well... if kessel or ff lit it up and drove their team to a win they'd have a chance...

 

[Cletus Marley]

Rinne was awful last night.

I feel Rinne needs to win the Cup to win the Smythe. He won't win it if the Penguins win.

Def. He shouldn't win the Smythe if the Preds don't win the series.

 

[Pick87your71Poison]

Def. He shouldn't win the Smythe if the Preds don't win the series.

No player on either team has been dominant enough relative to options on the other team to this point to win it unless their team wins the Cup and that is extremely likely to change from this point. I'm not sure I can even construct reasonable scenario where it happens, but there's always some extreme chance.

 

[SpeedDemon]

Def. He shouldn't win the Smythe if the Preds don't win the series.

Apparently many posters here, yourself included the award is accounted for the entire playoffs

Rinne was a major reason the Preds got past the Hawks and Blues. When they needed the most against the Ducks he was there as well.

 

[Peat]

Chris Boyle who works for MSG media did a small piece on that Rinne deserves credit for his play but his team deserves credit themselves as Rinne is facing a below average shots per game that come off of cross ice passes.

Lots of respect to the coaching staff for finding out the best way to make Rinne effective.

Good read, thanks for posting that. Feels like the Pens are definitely targeting those cross ice passes.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

If the Penguins were to win the Cup, what numbers would Rinne have to put up in these final few games to be one of the rare Conn Smythe winners on a losing team?

For comparison, JS Giguere won the Conn Smythe as a member of the losing Mighty Ducks of Anaheim in 2003 with a stat line of:

21 GP, 15 W, 6 L, .945%, 1.62 GAA, 5 SO

Rinne's current stats are:

17 GP, 12 W, 5 L, .934%, 1.83 GAA, 2 SO


Presumably the series would have to go 7 games and Malkin/Crosby would have to struggle to put up points, but is there any chance Rinne could pull it off?

Considering he is up against the Pens, those numbers are going to go up a little, it already has quite a bit from the 5-3 loss.

He'd have to lose every single game here on out at 1-0, putting up 35-40 save performances.

 

[Riptide]

Apparently many posters here, yourself included the award is accounted for the entire playoffs

Rinne was a major reason the Preds got past the Hawks and Blues. When they needed the most against the Ducks he was there as well.

Doesn't change the fact that the award gets weighted towards the conference finals and cup finals. The odds of Rinne winning it - even if Nashville wins is slim.

 

[TorstenFrings]

Apparently many posters here, yourself included the award is accounted for the entire playoffs

Rinne was a major reason the Preds got past the Hawks and Blues. When they needed the most against the Ducks he was there as well.

Sure, but in RL no one has ever won it with an okay-ish performance in a lost final just on the strength of the earlier rounds. At that point you may as well argue for Karlsson.If they win that is different. He still needs to be better than in game 1 obvs, but that's probably implied by a Preds win.

 

[mrzeigler]

It's almost impossible, no matter what he does. That's primarily because the defensemen who help him do his job are too good at theirs for him to be recognized as doing something on his own ... other than faltering.


In other words, all of the following conditions must be met for Rinne to win Conn Smythe in a losing effort:

* Malkin goes ice cold (possible, not probable)
* Crosby goes ice cold (possible, not probable)
* Guentzel does not score two more big goals this series (mildly probable)
* Nashville pushes the series to seven games but loses (possible)
* Nashville defense plays terrible during games 2-7, enabling Rinne to get full credit for the team taking PGH to seven (not likely at all)

While any one or two of those could happen, it's extremely unlikely that all five conditions would be met, especially that last one.

 

[Fugazy]

It's almost impossible. They'll almost always give it to someone on the winning team anyway.

 

[Sentinel]

I don't care if Malkin and Crosby both put up 60 points. It's what they're expected to do.

You seriously expect Crosby and Malkin to put up 60 points? Something no player has ever done in playoffs? Perhaps you should be watching basketball.

You look at the '98 Finals. I think Vanbiesbrouck was robbed of the Conn Smythe despite the fact that the Panthers got swept by the Avs that year.

Aha. Especially given that neither the Avalanche, nor the Panthers, nor Beezer even played in the Finals that year, as the Conn Smythe justly went to Steve Yzerman.

Everything else is equally absurd.

 

[tony d]

Take it to Game 7 but even then I think a Pens player gets the Smythe if they win the Cup.

 

[Rectify]

Here is the only scenario I can think of:

- Rinne gets hurt during warmups tonight
- Pens win the next 2 games 5-0 then 5-1
- Rinne comes back in and pinches 3 straight shutouts
- Preds lose game 7 in 4OT 1-0 on a goal that was kicked in by a defenseman

That's the only way I can see it if the PENS win. If the PREDS win I'm sure he will be a frontrunner.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Steal 3 games