If the '07-08 Canucks played the current Canucks' system

[Ziostilon]

You know those team portraits that they hand out at the SuperSkills challenge

I was just looking at the 07-08 one, which caught my eye. Edler, Bieksa, Kesler all looked so young.

This was Naslund and Trevor Linden's last season with the Canucks. Brendan Morrison had that long-term injury. Matt Cooke was traded for Matt Pettinger. Names that jump out at you: Isbister, Aaron Miller, Byron Ritchie

Had that team play the system currently utilized by the Canucks. Do you think that team could've at least for into the playoffs

Click to read more...

 

[Zombotron]

Daniel Sedin | Henrik Sedin |
Markus Naslund | Brendan Morrison | Mason Raymond
Alexandre Burrows | Ryan Kesler | Matt Cooke
Taylor Pyatt | Ryan Shannon | Trevor Linden
Brad Isbister
Byron Ritchie
Jeff Cowan

Willie Mitchell | Kevin Bieksa
Mattias Ohlund | Sami Salo
Mike Weaver | Alexander Edler
Aaron Miller
Lukas Krajicek

Luongo
Sanford

------

2008 Kesler and Burrows would have been incredible third-line players under a hypothetical WD system. Burrows was a PK monster back in the day.



------

In this season, Markus Naslund was the same age the Sedins are now (34 years old). The team also lacked a PMD and top-six scorers...

 

[JA]

Markus and Vigneault didn't exactly see eye-to-eye, especially with the system. There was drama at the end of the season regarding whether Vigneault or Naslund would be the one to leave the team.

I think under Desjardins' offensive system, Markus would have thrived. In his two years under Vigneault, the frequent line-juggling resulted in no chemistry between Markus and his linemates, and at times he played on lines that were instructed to play defense before offense. Markus thought the team's system was too robotic.

Vigneault, Naslund clash over Canucks' offensive frustration; Vancouver coach, star player knock heads: [Early Edition]
Ziemer, Brad. Calgary Herald [Calgary, Alta] 24 Oct 2007: D5.

...

Vancouver Canucks coach Alain Vigneault remains steadfast in the belief his sub-.500 team is headed in the right direction, a day after his captain took issue with the Canucks' offensive system.

Vigneault insisted Tuesday he is beginning to see the same positive signs that preceded the Canucks' post-Christmas run last season.

"I am optimistic," Vigneault said on what was a day off for the 4- 5-0 Canucks, who meet the Detroit Red Wings (6-2-10) tonight. "Our results aren't quite there, but our process is pretty close. We are doing a lot of good things, and I really think we are close to turning that corner and winning games on a consistent basis."

That clearly is not a universal view in the Canuck camp. Following Monday night's 3-1 loss in Carolina, captain Markus Naslund expressed his frustration with the team's offensive system. Naslund said the Canucks are too quick to give up the puck and expressed a distaste for Vancouver's dump-it-in, dump-it-out game.

"We're not getting enough chances and I think we have to work too hard to get our chances compared to other teams," Naslund said. "I have my own views. I think we're throwing away way too many pucks instead of trying to be creative and not giving the puck away when we've got it."

Vigneault would not directly address Naslund's concerns, saying he had not yet read the comments, but he took a veiled swipe at some of his team's "skill players."

"A lot of our players are minus players and a lot of those players are our most skilled players," he said. "Our grinders have as many points and they are doing it by hard forechecking, going to the tough areas. That's the way the game is played now. You have to have that willingness to want to do that."

...

He said the team's offence is being hindered by the inability of the defence to get shots through from the point. He is also concerned about the number of penalties his players are taking.

...

This wasn't Vigneault's plan, but ...; Naslund-Sedins line was about the last thing the coach wanted: [Final Edition]
Botchford, Jason. The Province [Vancouver, B.C] 23 Nov 2007: A71.

...

Naslund knows all too well about Vigneault's line juggling. He played with 13 different combinations last season.

It was a difficult year offensively for Naslund, who saw his goal totals decline for the third straight season -- from a career high 48 in 2002-03 to 35, 32 and 24.

He never really found any chemistry and people wondered if he could ever be the same player he was with Todd Bertuzzi.

...

Naslund is a $6M checker; Vancouver coach Vigneault shifts the former NHL scoring star to checking unit: [Final Edition]
Botchford, Jason. Alberni Valley Times [Port Alberni, B.C] 15 Jan 2008: 13.

...

Naslund, surprisingly, finds himself heading into today's game at Columbus on the wing of the Canucks' shutdown line with Burrows and Ryan Kesler.

"(Naslund's) role is going to change a little," Kesler said. "He knows he's going to be playing against other teams' top lines. Our job is to shut them down, worry about defence first, then go on the offence.

"As much as you want to give him the puck and provide as much offence as you can for him, it's kind of tough. If you take chances then their top line is going to get chances. If their top line gets chances it's likely going to end up in the back of your net."

Has it really come to this for Naslund?

Alain Vigneault said there's method to what some would call his madness. In fact, he said, it makes perfect sense. He pointed out that Naslund's new linemates rank fifth and sixth, respectively, in scoring among the active roster.

"If you look at what we have as far as available forwards, they're top in production," the coach said. "So we have our top six forwards playing together, the guys who are getting us the most points."

...

"(Naslund's) got to be real sharp because they're going up against the top lines and he's got to make sure he plays well without the puck," Vigneault said. "He's going to get some chances with those two guys because they're playing well."

The fact he's playing with defence-first forwards isn't lost on Naslund, who as he's done all year is taking the latest gear shift in stride, remaining publicly unfazed, even welcoming the challenge.

"It's obviously going to be different for me and I do have to be a little more cautious," he said. "They're obviously out there to shut other people down. But, that being said, they're good enough to take advantage of other teams. "It's a little bit of a new challenge for me. I do want to be able to play in all different scenarios. I like those guys. They're not just defensive guys. They can skate and they can put the puck in the net."

Worried how Kesler and Burrows react with Naslund on their wing, Vigneault's implored them not to change their game.

"I was very clear to them that I didn't want them to change the way they play, that I didn't want them to look for Markus," the coach said. "I want them to play the same way, with speed, get in on the forecheck and create the turnovers. Now you have someone on the left side who might be able to finish for you."

Markus had 25 goals, 55 points spending much of the 2007-08 season on an assortment of different lines. Just before Vigneault's arrival in the summer of 2006, Markus had a 32 goal, 47 assist, 79 point season (2005-06).

Markus used his intuition. Vigneault took that away from him. The team's structured, defensive style stifled his offense, and the dump-and-chase system killed many rush offense opportunities Markus may have wanted to attempt.

The reel below is from 2005-06.



His shots weren't as perfect post-lockout as they were prior to the lockout, but I also noticed that his seasonal shot totals were much lower beginning in 2006-07 than they had been since 1999.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/n/nasluma02.html

Works Cited

Botchford, Jason. "Naslund is a $6M Checker; Vancouver Coach Vigneault Shifts the Former NHL Scoring Star to Checking Unit." Alberni Valley Times: 13. Jan 15 2008. ProQuest. Web. 10 Jan. 2015 .

Botchford, Jason. "This Wasn't Vigneault's Plan, but ...; Naslund-Sedins Line was about the Last Thing the Coach Wanted." The Province: A71. Nov 23 2007. ProQuest. Web. 10 Jan. 2015 .

Ziemer, Brad. "Vigneault, Naslund Clash Over Canucks' Offensive Frustration; Vancouver Coach, Star Player Knock Heads." Calgary Herald: D5. Oct 24 2007. ProQuest. Web. 10 Jan. 2015 .

 

[Regal]

^ Vigneault was such a terrible coach that year. When he put out a line of I think Ritchie and Isbister while trailing in the final minute their do or die game to make the playoffs at the end of the year, I was shocked he wasn't canned. Luckily, he got his head out of his butt with regards to the offense in subsequent years.

Man for man, that team was fairly similar, and probably better than this year's squad. The Sedins and Naslund were roughly the level of the current twins and Vrbata, Morrison and Kesler were a much better 2-3 center combo, the defense was deeper, and Luongo was a much better goalie. This year's team has a bit better winger depth and has been healthier. I think with a better system in '08 they should have made the playoffs, but wouldn't have been anything special.

 

[Barney Gumble]

Naslund never was the same after that hit by "you know who".

Blueline was deeper - but then again look a how many 'man games lost' due to injuries that season.

 

[CherryToke]

what If the 09-12 Canucks played the current system?

 

[B-rock]

Naslund was a shadow of his former self that season. He then went on to NY and did absolutely nothing before shutting it down.

With him done, there wasn't enough depth to accomplish much.

 

[Bure All Day]

Daniel Sedin | Henrik Sedin |
Markus Naslund | Brendan Morrison | Mason Raymond
Alexandre Burrows | Ryan Kesler | Matt Cooke
Taylor Pyatt | Ryan Shannon | Trevor Linden
Brad Isbister
Byron Ritchie
Jeff Cowan

Willie Mitchell | Kevin Bieksa
Mattias Ohlund | Sami Salo
Mike Weaver | Alexander Edler
Aaron Miller
Lukas Krajicek

Luongo
Sanford

------

2008 Kesler and Burrows would have been incredible third-line players under a hypothetical WD system. Burrows was a PK monster back in the day.



------

In this season, Markus Naslund was the same age the Sedins are now (34 years old). The team also lacked a PMD and top-six scorers...

**** I used to love our team. Burrows feasting and beasting on the PK back then. We are seriously just a washed up, wrung out version of our old selves.

Luongo >> Miller
Sedins then > Sedins now (slightly but I think over the course of the season the gap will increase.
Naslund < Vrbata
Kesler ~ Bonino

Defense now, when healthy is probably better than it was then.

I think all in all, the 07-08 team has it.

 

[Bure All Day]

His shots weren't as perfect post-lockout as they were prior to the lockout, but I also noticed that his seasonal shot totals were much lower beginning in 2006-07 than they had been since 1999.

Still unreal, practically every single one of his goals was a perfectly placed wrist shot.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

what If the 09-12 Canucks played the current system?

ballard for norris

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

**** I used to love our team. Burrows feasting and beasting on the PK back then. We are seriously just a washed up, wrung out version of our old selves.

Luongo >> Miller
Sedins then > Sedins now (slightly but I think over the course of the season the gap will increase.
Naslund < Vrbata
Kesler ~ Bonino

Defense now, when healthy is probably better than it was then.

I think all in all, the 07-08 team has it.

Nope.

 

[Jyrki21]

That team was good enough to make the playoffs but, like, the 2005-06 Canucks, got killed by blueline injuries.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Lol Ritchie and Invisibister.

 

[Zombotron]

That team was good enough to make the playoffs but, like, the 2005-06 Canucks, got killed by blueline injuries.

Their full, healthy defense core was really solid 1 through 6.

Invisibister.

I remember that one. And Alexander Edler was known as Automatic Alex because he was dynamite in the shootout.

----

 

[thenextone]

AV was such a dick.

 

[Bure All Day]

Nope.

Wow, yeah what a great argument, I definitely see your point

 

[TheWanderer]

Lol Ritchie and Invisibister.

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

Wow, yeah what a great argument, I definitely see your point

Didn't think it required explanation. That was a pretty clearly superior defensive team. The big problem with that team was offense and injuries.

Willie Mitchell | Kevin Bieksa
Mattias Ohlund | Sami Salo
Mike Weaver | Alexander Edler
Aaron Miller

vs.

Alex Edler | Chris Taven
Dan Hamhuis | Kevin Bieksa
Luca Sbisa | Ryan Stanton
Yannick Weber

Mitchell = Tanev
Bieksa then >>> Bieksa now
Ohlund = Hamhuis
Edler now = Salo
Then Edler >>>>>>>> Sbisa
Weaver >> Stanton
Miller/Weber... ehhh.

 

[God]

Daniel Sedin | Henrik Sedin |
Markus Naslund | Brendan Morrison | Mason Raymond
Alexandre Burrows | Ryan Kesler | Matt Cooke
Taylor Pyatt | Ryan Shannon | Trevor Linden
Brad Isbister
Byron Ritchie
Jeff Cowan

Willie Mitchell | Kevin Bieksa
Mattias Ohlund | Sami Salo
Mike Weaver | Alexander Edler
Aaron Miller
Lukas Krajicek

Luongo
Sanford

Good lord, Nonis.

 

[CherryToke]

AV was such a dick.

they don't call him Mr. Gant for nothing.

 

[Jyrki21]

Willie Mitchell | Kevin Bieksa
Mattias Ohlund | Sami Salo
Mike Weaver | Alexander Edler
Aaron Miller

Krajicek and Miller were the bottom pairing. Edler, Weaver and later Bourdon were on the roster because of injuries, although Edler cemented his spot pretty fast.

Bieksa had his first major injury that year, but even before he went down he was getting heavily criticized.

 

[Bure All Day]

Didn't think it required explanation. That was a pretty clearly superior defensive team. The big problem with that team was offense and injuries.

Willie Mitchell | Kevin Bieksa
Mattias Ohlund | Sami Salo
Mike Weaver | Alexander Edler
Aaron Miller

vs.

Alex Edler | Chris Taven
Dan Hamhuis | Kevin Bieksa
Luca Sbisa | Ryan Stanton
Yannick Weber

Mitchell = Tanev
Bieksa then >>> Bieksa now
Ohlund = Hamhuis
Edler now = Salo
Then Edler >>>>>>>> Sbisa
Weaver >> Stanton
Miller/Weber... ehhh.

Weaver >> Stanton is a sick joke. He had literally zero offense and wasn't particularly great in his own end. Stanton brings more offense, which isn't really saying much, and is as good or better than Weaver in the d-zone.

07-08 Edler wasn't that much better than Sbisa either. Yeah he was definitely better but ">>>>>>>>>" is ridiculous.

All in all, I'd say it's basically a wash, 07-08 might have been a bit better but to call them a "defensively superior team" is a stretch.

 

[Shareefruck]

Weaver >> Stanton is a sick joke. He had literally zero offense and wasn't particularly great in his own end. Stanton brings more offense, which isn't really saying much, and is as good or better than Weaver in the d-zone.

07-08 Edler wasn't that much better than Sbisa either. Yeah he was definitely better but ">>>>>>>>>" is ridiculous.

All in all, I'd say it's basically a wash, 07-08 might have been a bit better but to call them a "defensively superior team" is a stretch.

For my money, Edler >>>>>>>> Sbisa is reasonable, but Salo > Edler (unless injuries are factored in).

I see it more like

Salo > Edler
Mitchell < Tanev (this one's tough)
Ohlund = Hamhuis
Bieksa >>> Bieksa
Edler = Stanton
Miller > Sbisa
Krajicek = Weber
Weaver > Corrado

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

Weaver >> Stanton is a sick joke. He had literally zero offense and wasn't particularly great in his own end. Stanton brings more offense, which isn't really saying much, and is as good or better than Weaver in the d-zone.

07-08 Edler wasn't that much better than Sbisa either. Yeah he was definitely better but ">>>>>>>>>" is ridiculous.

All in all, I'd say it's basically a wash, 07-08 might have been a bit better but to call them a "defensively superior team" is a stretch.

Weaver has been an outstanding defensive D-Man for going on 7 years now. He was a guy that we made a mistake in letting go (albeit not as bad as letting Mitchell go).

Also, the Canucks were SEVENTH in goals against that season. Edler had 20 points in 75 games and was a +6. Sbisa is on pace for 8 points and -16.

That team was extremely strong defensively and was brought down by injuries and a pathetic offense.

 

[vanuck]

Daniel Sedin | Henrik Sedin |
Markus Naslund | Brendan Morrison | Mason Raymond
Alexandre Burrows | Ryan Kesler | Matt Cooke
Taylor Pyatt | Ryan Shannon | Trevor Linden
Brad Isbister
Byron Ritchie
Jeff Cowan

Willie Mitchell | Kevin Bieksa
Mattias Ohlund | Sami Salo
Mike Weaver | Alexander Edler
Aaron Miller
Lukas Krajicek

Luongo
Sanford

------

2008 Kesler and Burrows would have been incredible third-line players under a hypothetical WD system. Burrows was a PK monster back in the day.



------

In this season, Markus Naslund was the same age the Sedins are now (34 years old). The team also lacked a PMD and top-six scorers...

We had the makings of a terrific checking line back then with some strong possession guys in Cooke-Kesler-Burrows but it was too bad AV forced Cooke out because they didn't get along. In yet another example of Nonis' wonderful eye for talent we ended up trading him for a guy who was practically out of the NHL in a year.

An underrated piece on the blueline was Weaver who I'm a little surprised we let go in hindsight given the moneypuck approach Gillis brought to player evaluation.