If Roy/Hasek/Brodeur had played in the 80s

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by ORHawksFan, Oct 13, 2018.

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  1. ORHawksFan

    ORHawksFan Registered User

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    One of the enduring debates I see in hockey is about Gretzky and how his reputation and stats were inflated by his era - freewheeling offense, subpar defensive systems, bad goalies, etc. Someone on another thread was arguing that no all time great goalies came out of the 80s save for Roy (though they were overlooking guys like Fuhr, Hextall, etc).

    That got me thinking though, three of the all time great goalies, Roy, Hasek, and Brodeur just happened to have their primes during the dead puck era and benefitted from evolved defensive systems. Though Roy's prime definitely started earlier, winning back to back Vezina's in 89-90, however it could be argued that his was extended because of the era.

    Had they started their careers in 1980, would they still have the same reputations they have today?
     
  2. Mike Farkas

    Mike Farkas Grace Personified

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    Roy and Hasek are both '65 birthdays. Brodeur '72. Different youth development. Roy and Hasek were prominent goalies in the 80's...Roy, we know what he did, played four seasons as a split-time guy in the 80s (as was the style at the time...youth development model included playing two goalies in games, etc. due to new rules/model developing around Roy's birth date) - Smythe, First-Team All-Star, Second-Team All-Star...one could reasonably argue that the 80's *finger quotes* extended until 1993. And Roy mopped up there too...there was no better goalie from 1986 to 1993.

    So, is the question, how would he do in an even weaker league (1980-1985, underrated garbage time for hockey...maybe garbage is too strong...but it's not great hockey then with all due respect to all the legends that played then and sprung from that time)...well, I think he would have been fine...talent rises to the forefront generally and Roy had talent...

    Hasek was the best goalie in Europe in the late 80's, so again, we know how he did without a hypothetical...

    Brodeur might be a 100 point man if he played in the 80's and developed the skill set that he did. Brodeur was the smartest goalie and one of the smartest players I have ever seen...he would need adaptation time because he was an anticipator...Brodeur is a player that would be worse in the AHL than the NHL, he would put up worse numbers, and that's a difficult concept to comprehend for some because it sounds ridiculous...since offense was more predictable in the early 80's (the talent was virtually one-way...that's why guys like Dennis Maruk had legendary seasons in this time because the game promoted one-way players like this...as the league's talent pool filled, more multi-dimensional players entered and multi-dimensional players bring a better played game and a better played game is lower scoring as a general rule of thumb) I think Brodeur would have been fine...his paddle down style would have worked out nicely too...but he would be my biggest concern because of the quality of the league, but not because of the quality of the player...I think he also would be the best add of the group for '81 and '87 Canada Cup teams...
     
  3. VanIslander

    VanIslander Don't waste my time

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    Roy beat Calgary in 1986 then lost plentu of times to Gretzky since, none more memorable for me than an all-star game in the 1990's when Gretzky and Lemieux beat him in back to back shots. In terms of tiers of hockey greats, Wayne & Mario are one or more notches higher than Roy, eh?

    Hasek has embarrassed Lemieux and Gretzky. Google it.

    Brodeur is basically what Belfour would have been if Eddie could hsve played mostly this century, not the end of last.
     
  4. Dennis Bonvie

    Dennis Bonvie Registered User

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    An all-star game?
     
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  5. Thenameless

    Thenameless Registered User

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    I'm more of a Hasek fan than a Roy fan, but while all-star games are a fun showcase, the sample size is just too small. I remember Gretzky and Lemieux scoring on Roy on successive breakaways, but I also remember Owen Nolan nailing that called shot on Hasek.
     
  6. VanIslander

    VanIslander Don't waste my time

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    I wasn't citing proof, I was mentioning an apt memory that typifies my impression of them.
     
  7. The Panther

    The Panther Registered User

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    It's generally best not to enter debates based on stupidity.

    Any player from any period in history playing in a different era would be a product of their era. Roy playing in the early 80s would have looked exactly like an early-80s goalie.
     
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  8. quoipourquoi

    quoipourquoi Goaltender

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    Technically he’s referencing the breakaway skills competition in 1997. Pretty cool 5-second YouTube clip to see them shooting back-to-back, but I’m not sure it’s more of a standout than the 1993 Stanley Cup Finals. Didn’t Roy have an fairly good record against Pittsburgh? Something like 21-8-4 in the years with Lemieux.


    Anyway, Patrick Roy definitely had his prime occur earlier than the Dead Puck Era, considering four of his five top-5 Hart placements, four of his five Jennings Trophies, three of his four 1st Team selections, all of his save percentage titles, and three of his four championships happened prior to 1996-97. I usually lump him in with Bourque and Messier anyway.

    He was still a major player in the DPE, particularly in the playoffs, but he was much more streaky, so there would be flashes of his old self but rarely sustained dominance (1996-97, the first half of 1997-98, 2001-02, the second half of 2002-03). Some of it may be attributable to Colorado playing more run-and-gun in the late-1990s than Montreal did from 1985-1995.

    Shifting everything back 5 years means the Sherbrooke Canadiens aren’t existing yet and he’s not meeting Francois Allaire, so you lose the perfect storm of Roy validating his existing playing style with an AHL championship, which might make for a more difficult transition into the NHL. But to dispute what The Panther said, Roy wasn’t going to be the product of an era but rather an era was going to be the product of Roy, so maybe the butterfly effect (ha) is that we see the divergence of two variations of butterfly hockey - an athletic Montreal butterfly and an efficient Sherbrooke butterfly.

    I think Martin Brodeur has the more seamless transition because his father just would have exposed him to a different generation of Canadiens hockey - though the Tretiak school might be out of the question (while Tretiak himself may still serve as an influence). Could be a delay in terms of the stickhandling because I’ve read that this was a direct response to Ron Hextall.
     
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  9. ORHawksFan

    ORHawksFan Registered User

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    Yeah I know, I hate that debate too, but it seems the argument about era tends to only be used to short change Gretzky, so I thought it'd be interesting to use it for discussion on other players.
     
  10. tony d

    tony d Registered User Sponsor

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    Roy played in the 80's and gained a lot of his aura by winning the 1986 Cup. I wonder how Hasek would have fared had he came over to North America a few yrs. earlier. Brodeur was born in '72 so this probably doesn't apply to him.
     
  11. The Panther

    The Panther Registered User

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    Hasek appeared in the 84 and 87 Canada Cups.
     

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