If Phoenix gets expansion. Is Murelo the owner?

[True South]

Atlanta fan here, Coyotes are a fave West team for me. I am so very sorry about everything that happened and I hope you all get a new team in the next five years. Without Meruelo.
Atlanta went through something similar...
When we started out, owned by Turner, things were okay. Not great. But okay. It was poorly run, but it was run all the same.
Then, the team was sold to the Atlanta Spirit Group. They never had enough money. The roof leaked onto fans during games, while they burned through millions making it the first LEED certified arena in its class. Never had a #1 D. Never had a goalie coach until the last year.
But here's why I mention it: Bettman let them buy The Thrashers illegally. A Dallas Car Dealer, David McDavid (no relation) had a higher bid, but Bettman gave the cash-poor Atlanta Spirit Group a sweetheart deal. McDavid sued turner for over $200 MM. My recollection is that they settled in court, but some people in Atlanta say that McDavid won outright.
This is significant, because right after the Thrashers were sold to Winnipeg in 2011, ALEX MERUELO tried to buy the Atlanta Hawks and get 50% control. It was a heavily leveraged deal, some say up to 40% leveraged. The Hawks announced Meruelo as the new owner, and even had Hawks legendary players do testimonials for him. Then the league started looking into the deal and his finances. Once they did that, he abruptly withdrew his bid. Even though he was announced and articles from the media announcing his ownership are still easy to find online.
Bettman KNEW Meruelo was a con artist, and still sold to him.
Bettman KNEW the consequences of selling to a cash-poor owner, because he did it with Atlanta.
I don't think Bettman is going to be commissioner in five years. Here's hoping.
Meruelo wrote to the mayor of Phoenix to get together on April 5th, and again on the 10th. No response.
That he fired the whole media team before the last game, and canceled his press conference is a sign that he's done. After his expenses since 2019, He'll leave Phoenix with a few hundred million dollars profit after this sale technically goes through. The NHL will never hear from him again. If he still bids on the land parcel, he'll just flip it.
Again, very sorry to all of you. You deserve much, much better.

 

[cobra427]

Economics always wins out. AM purchased a scarce asset, only so many sports franchises, the values just keep going up. The NHL wanted to stay in Phoenix and not screw up franchise values by allowing a move in the past. Values have gotten so high now that a buyer shows up willing to pay $1.2 billion, $1 billion for AM, $200 mill for the NHL. It was too good of a deal for the NHL and AM to pass up, while ending the drama in AZ. AM gets an option to buy a new NHL franchise for the same amount in the future. It's like AM has a call option, he can wait and see what happens to franchise values. I think this was the carrot to get the deal completed. Its like saying, sell all your ABC stock at $100 a share, and we will give you an option to buy all your stock back at the same price for 5 years. You get all your money that you can invest in something else now and a free look at the future. This is a smoking deal for AM.

I have always thought the play with the Coyotes was the increasing franchise value, this has allowed AM to sustain losses and help out the ASU arena. With this sale he makes out like a bandit, pockets at least $500 million while retaining an option. The NHL owners get to split $200 million.

All economics at the end of the day.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Economics always wins out. AM purchased a scarce asset, only so many sports franchises, the values just keep going up. The NHL wanted to stay in Phoenix and not screw up franchise values by allowing a move in the past. Values have gotten so high now that a buyer shows up willing to pay $1.2 billion, $1 billion for AM, $200 mill for the NHL. It was too good of a deal for the NHL and AM to pass up, while ending the drama in AZ. AM gets an option to buy a new NHL franchise for the same amount in the future. It's like AM has a call option, he can wait and see what happens to franchise values. I think this was the carrot to get the deal completed. Its like saying, sell all your ABC stock at $100 a share, and we will give you an option to buy all your stock back at the same price for 5 years. You get all your money that you can invest in something else now and a free look at the future. This is a smoking deal for AM.

I have always thought the play with the Coyotes was the increasing franchise value, this has allowed AM to sustain losses and help out the ASU arena. With this sale he makes out like a bandit, pockets at least $500 million while retaining an option. The NHL owners get to split $200 million.

All economics at the end of the day.

Now try this assessment with the understanding that Meruelo is a piece of shit grifting coward who has no intention of doing what he claimed he would.

 

[Mosby]

200M split between 31 other owners is a shit deal, especially after 15 years of this. That’s 6 million each. So you get enough cash to sign a second line forward for your trouble.

 

[True South]

Economics always wins out. AM purchased a scarce asset, only so many sports franchises, the values just keep going up. The NHL wanted to stay in Phoenix and not screw up franchise values by allowing a move in the past. Values have gotten so high now that a buyer shows up willing to pay $1.2 billion, $1 billion for AM, $200 mill for the NHL. It was too good of a deal for the NHL and AM to pass up, while ending the drama in AZ. AM gets an option to buy a new NHL franchise for the same amount in the future. It's like AM has a call option, he can wait and see what happens to franchise values. I think this was the carrot to get the deal completed. Its like saying, sell all your ABC stock at $100 a share, and we will give you an option to buy all your stock back at the same price for 5 years. You get all your money that you can invest in something else now and a free look at the future. This is a smoking deal for AM.

I have always thought the play with the Coyotes was the increasing franchise value, this has allowed AM to sustain losses and help out the ASU arena. With this sale he makes out like a bandit, pockets at least $500 million while retaining an option. The NHL owners get to split $200 million.

All economics at the end of the day.

Agreed. He bought it for $450 MM in 2019, and now pockets $1B. His operating expenses have been really low, especially the last two years. But he's had to shell out $75 MM in salary a year just to players. That's at least $375 MM. Maybe he walks away with 100 - 75 MM tops in profit. But I guess it was still worth it to Meruelo. That's exactly why he won't be building a new stadium or having an expansion franchise.

 

[Kai Yo T]

I think the one free night is lame .. should have been a week.. and more personal.

As far as the blackout out stuff , he likely just gave the certificates that were already mass produced..

Exactly.

Those type of vouchers are designed to get people to the casino where they'll spend money. I mean, it's insulting to give it out as a Christmas present. It's not typical for someone to travel and only spend one night. So AM comps one night, the guest pays for several more nights with their own money andthen they also spends their own money at his Resort/Casino. AM ends up the real winner.

That's not a gift, it's a freakin' coupon, basically.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Exactly.

Those type of vouchers are designed to get people to the casino where they'll spend money. I mean, it's insulting to give it out as a Christmas present. It's not typical for someone to travel and only spend one night. So AM comps one night, the guest pays for several more nights with their own money andthen they also spends their own money at his Resort/Casino. AM ends up the real winner.

That's not a gift, it's a freakin' coupon, basically.

Clark Griswold's jelly of the month membership held more value than Meruelo's piece of shit coupon.

 

[SniperHF]

Bettman KNEW Meruelo was a con artist, and still sold to him.
Bettman KNEW the consequences of selling to a cash-poor owner, because he did it with Atlanta.

Not that he deserves much defense right now, but have you looked into who our prior owners were?

Meruelo didn't pan out but basically every owner we've ever had was a hail Mary pass.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Not that he deserves much defense right now, but have you looked into who our prior owners were?

Meruelo didn't pan out but basically every owner we've ever had was a hail Mary pass.

I should have played the billion dollar lottery. If I had won, I'd have shown Phoenix and the NHL what a real hockey team owner is like.

 

[SniperHF]

I should have played the billion dollar lottery. If I had won, I'd have shown Phoenix and the NHL what a real hockey team owner is like.

I'd have been in if only for you to have moved the team to the loop 303 and lake pleasant road intersection

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I'd have been in if only for you to have moved the team to the loop 303 and lake pleasant road intersection

ROFL... hell no. That place is full of douchebros driving their Polaris off-roaders and shooting the local fauna.

 

[benedictTavares]

Agreed. He bought it for $450 MM in 2019, and now pockets $1B. His operating expenses have been really low, especially the last two years. But he's had to shell out $75 MM in salary a year just to players. That's at least $375 MM. Maybe he walks away with 100 - 75 MM tops in profit. But I guess it was still worth it to Meruelo. That's exactly why he won't be building a new stadium or having an expansion franchise.

I don't disagree with you but he probably ends up in a better position as tons of complex tax maneuvering always takes place in these kinds of deals. Rich people don't get or stay rich by losing money or not wringing out every ounce of profit or tax opportunity from a deal or asset.

Its the same reason player associations across many leagues have no trust with the owners and the numbers they provide from revenue splits.

edit*

I think people also underestimate the bureaucratic nightmare that is Arizona politics. I am not talking about party politics I am talking about land deals, local municipalities and business interests. Look at the craziness just with APS and SRP.

 

[True South]

Not that he deserves much defense right now, but have you looked into who our prior owners were?

Meruelo didn't pan out but basically every owner we've ever had was a hail Mary pass.

So true. It's very disturbing that the NHL can't get good owners in top-ten US markets. I was shocked when nobody stepped up to buy the Thrashers from Atlanta. I mean, they were also looking for someone to buy the arena and the Hawks too. But there are plenty of billionaires in Atlanta. It would be a slam dunk for someone to buy the Thrashers and then make a good stadium in the northern burbs. There is plenty of land still.

 

[cobra427]

Agreed. He bought it for $450 MM in 2019, and now pockets $1B. His operating expenses have been really low, especially the last two years. But he's had to shell out $75 MM in salary a year just to players. That's at least $375 MM. Maybe he walks away with 100 - 75 MM tops in profit. But I guess it was still worth it to Meruelo. That's exactly why he won't be building a new stadium or having an expansion franchise.

AM might have been eating $50 mill a year for 5 years, thats $250 mill+$450 mill he paid=$700 mill all in, sells it for $1 billion, net is $300 mill in 5 years on a $450 mill investment, that is a pretty good return. And to top it off, he still has the option/right for many years to be awarded a new franchise at the same sale price of $1 billion. In 5 years, a new franchise might cost $2 billion. AM put up with and dealt with a major problems, he is getting well rewarded now.

 

[GhostofTommyBolin]

AM might have been eating $50 mill a year for 5 years, thats $250 mill+$450 mill he paid=$700 mill all in, sells it for $1 billion, net is $300 mill in 5 years on a $450 mill investment, that is a pretty good return. And to top it off, he still has the option/right for many years to be awarded a new franchise at the same sale price of $1 billion. In 5 years, a new franchise might cost $2 billion. AM put up with and dealt with a major problems, he is getting well rewarded now.

Plus whatever he benefits off of "operating at a loss" and using the team as a tax break on his other businesses.

 

[Kai Yo T]

Morgan said (from what he knows) the Coyotes had over $60M in operating losses just this season. All that "we're doing better than ever at Mullett" talk was smoke and mirrors.

 

[AZviaNJ]

I should have played the billion dollar lottery. If I had won, I'd have shown Phoenix and the NHL what a real hockey team owner is like.

and you'd have 30 board members here in F40 guiding you every step of the way

 

[SniperHF]

All that "we're doing better than ever at Mullett" talk was smoke and mirrors.

Yes, there's a reason I used scare quotes anytime an article referenced that. Was always a highly questionable assertion. Even if it was true it was always very narrowly regarding ticket revenue and not the whole picture.

 

[PainForShane]

Meruelo is currently on Burns and Gambo -- haven't heard him talk for a very long time.

He starts with "I didn't sell out the team" ok then.

Arizona Sports 98.7

The Local Sports Leader

tuner.bonneville.com

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Meruelo is currently on Burns and Gambo -- haven't heard him talk for a very long time.

He starts with "I didn't sell out the team" ok then.

Arizona Sports 98.7

The Local Sports Leader

tuner.bonneville.com

And Bonneville Burns didn't challenge him on that at all, did he?

 

[Edenjung]

And Bonneville Burns didn't challenge him on that at all, did he?

First time listening to them. But they probe him. At least i think that. But i never listen to interviews.
Especially on the money. AM wants one of those theme park districts to pay for the infrastructure.
Welp as soon as this hits the papers, this thing will sink.

Also he appologizes to the fans.


Also his son picked players.
And the AHL team moves to mullet.

 

[Jagged Ice]

Also his son picked players.

What is this supposed to mean?

 

[PainForShane]

And Bonneville Burns didn't challenge him on that at all, did he?

They do.
First time listening to them. But they probe him.
Especially on the money. AM wants one of those theme park districts to pay for the infrastructure.
Welp as soon as this hits the papers, this thing will sink.

Also he appologizes to the fans.


Also his son picked players.
And the AHL team moves to mullet.

I'm listening too, disagree that they're probing him. I think they're going very soft on him honestly, and his answers aren't consistent with themselves. They're asking good initial questions, getting BS answers, and no followup.

For instance they asked something about 'what went wrong here' -- rambly answer which included something around "the move to Tempe was a success."

They're now talking about the land in Desert Ridge, Meruelo's like, "we need support from Phoenix to make this project" and few mins later "I haven't met the mayor of Phoenix yet"

Also something about, "we still have the IP, logo, we still own the team and nothing has changed." A sentence later, "Oh I apologize to the fans about losing the players, I picked these players with my son and Bill Armstrong and love them" WTF Alex Meruelo.

These guys aren't good interviewers, and Meruelo's actively gaslighting. In 5 years from what I understand his expansion window expires, we'll see what happens then

 

[Edenjung]

What is this supposed to mean?

He said:
"BA, me and my son picked the personell for this team".
And something about putting the right guys on the ice.

@PainForShane
I have never heard them before so i cannot compare at all.
So that is just what i heard and thought. Do i believe him?
Nope. He is lying throuh his teeth.

 

[DustyDangler]

These guys aren't good interviewers, and Meruelo's actively gaslighting. In 5 years from what I understand his expansion window expires, we'll see what happens then

It was as disappointing an interview as I expected.