Friedman: "If I'm the Edmonton Oilers, I'm calling the Montreal Canadiens and asking for Max Pacioretty"

[bleuetbio]

Im ok to trade Pacioretty in a trade inclding RHN ++ .... but only in a rebuilding perspective. There's no way to do this trade if we want to stay competitive. Mark my words, Pacioretty with McJesus can be an easy 75 pts player, even more

 

[yababy]

It's gotta be RNH + A or B+ prospect + first rounder. Otherwise, I pass.

Then you pass.
Canadiens aren't in an enviable negotiating position to get a Centre.

 

[bleuetbio]

Nope. No scenario where Montreal scoops both RNH and Puljujarvi with Pacioretty being the only piece that helps now. Byron is completely meh.

You meant Byron is completly your best player. Yes you're right

 

[elmaco]

It would be either Poolparty/RNH + maybe a 2nd.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

If we rebuild and trade Patch it will likely be for someone between 18 to ~22. Basically someone who's less good than Patch, but has potential to become very good. RNH is less good than Patch, but has also stopped developing. He's just a ~45 pt center now.

RNH has gotten worse in pt production since the last 3 years. He's also not the same player as he was earlier in his career. He basically lost all creativity than he had back then. And the way he played in the playoffs doesn't help his cause either.

RNH's contract is not a positive, it's a negative. He's overpaid...
And like I said before swapping RNH with Pacioretty makes the habs offense much worse even though he's a center... The difference between Patch and RNH is that great.

The only player of the oilers that makes sense for the habs is Puljujarvi.

I was never discussing the prospect of a rebuild. I claimed RNH for Pacioretty makes both teams better.

RNH's has averaged over 50 points per 82 games the last 3 seasons. 46 over the last two. This is while not being used in a featured offensive role. You're painting a dishonest picture about his production. Nobody is denying that it has gone down, but there's no reason to believe he couldn't return to a 55-60 point type low end 1st line producer in a featured role with top linemates and top PP minutes. He's a tier below that right now.

RNH's contract is a positive because he's locked down for 4 seasons. If the Canadiens were to trade for him right now, there'd be no anxiety about his long term status with the team. He's paid too much for the role Edmonton has place him in, but on a team using him as a 1st liner, his salary would be representative of what he brings. This is a league where there is a premium on what centres makes. Frans Nielsen who was 32 at the time of signing his most recent contract only got 750k less than RNH makes right now, and that's on a 6 year term. You might say "well RNH was an RFA", but in the context of acquiring him as an already signed contract, that isn't relevant. The relevant portion is what it might cost the Canadiens cap wise to bring in a comparable C, and when you look at recent contracts it very clearly dictates that RNH's salary isn't bad if he is going to be used as a low end 1C.

I won't comment on Puljujarvi because my post which you replied to had absolutely nothing to do with him. The premise of my post was that RNH for Pacioretty would be a great trade because it makes both teams better. You've said nothing to convince me otherwise.

 

[sansabri]

I was never discussing the prospect of a rebuild. I claimed RNH for Pacioretty makes both teams better.

RNH's has averaged over 50 points per 82 games the last 3 seasons. 46 over the last two. This is while not being used in a featured offensive role. You're painting a dishonest picture about his production. Nobody is denying that it has gone down, but there's no reason to believe he couldn't return to a 55-60 point type low end 1st line producer in a featured role with top linemates and top PP minutes. He's a tier below that right now.

RNH's contract is a positive because he's locked down for 4 seasons. If the Canadiens were to trade for him right now, there'd be no anxiety about his long term status with the team. He's paid too much for the role Edmonton has place him in, but on a team using him as a 1st liner, his salary would be representative of what he brings. This is a league where there is a premium on what centres makes. Frans Nielsen who was 32 at the time of signing his most recent contract only got 750k less than RNH makes right now, and that's on a 6 year term. You might say "well RNH was an RFA", but in the context of acquiring him as an already signed contract, that isn't relevant. The relevant portion is what it might cost the Canadiens cap wise to bring in a comparable C, and when you look at recent contracts it very clearly dictates that RNH's salary isn't bad if he is going to be used as a low end 1C.

I won't comment on Puljujarvi because my post which you replied to had absolutely nothing to do with him. The premise of my post was that RNH for Pacioretty would be a great trade because it makes both teams better. You've said nothing to convince me otherwise.

There's nothing positive about an overpaid player. RNH does not make us a better team. He didn't make the Oilers a better team, either.

 

[Wingsfan 4 life]

Friedman attempting to be an armchair GM is more overrated than any player mentioned in this thread.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

There's nothing positive about an overpaid player. RNH does not make us a better team. He didn't make the Oilers a better team, either.

RNH is not overpaid. He is overpaid relative to the role the Oilers use him in. The role they use him in also does not put him in a position to produce up to the standard he would need to produce to justify his contract.

Saying he didn't make the Oilers a better team isn't really an argument. Was he their GM? What about Max Pacioretty? Last time I checked, the Canadiens stink so far this season and did WORSE than the Oilers last year. So would it be fair for me to make a stupid argument like Canadiens stink therefore Max Pacioretty could not make anybody better? Sounds kinda silly....

 

[Frank Drebin]

This thread was good before all the Habs fans got to it. Enjoy your stay in NHL purgatory as Patches leaves for nothing via FA.

Guys, after reading what this guy has to say, maybe we should reconsider and take what we can get for Max. Lucic str8 up

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

I was never discussing the prospect of a rebuild. I claimed RNH for Pacioretty makes both teams better.

RNH's has averaged over 50 points per 82 games the last 3 seasons. 46 over the last two. This is while not being used in a featured offensive role. You're painting a dishonest picture about his production. Nobody is denying that it has gone down, but there's no reason to believe he couldn't return to a 55-60 point type low end 1st line producer in a featured role with top linemates and top PP minutes. He's a tier below that right now.

RNH's contract is a positive because he's locked down for 4 seasons. If the Canadiens were to trade for him right now, there'd be no anxiety about his long term status with the team. He's paid too much for the role Edmonton has place him in, but on a team using him as a 1st liner, his salary would be representative of what he brings. This is a league where there is a premium on what centres makes. Frans Nielsen who was 32 at the time of signing his most recent contract only got 750k less than RNH makes right now, and that's on a 6 year term. You might say "well RNH was an RFA", but in the context of acquiring him as an already signed contract, that isn't relevant. The relevant portion is what it might cost the Canadiens cap wise to bring in a comparable C, and when you look at recent contracts it very clearly dictates that RNH's salary isn't bad if he is going to be used as a low end 1C.

I won't comment on Puljujarvi because my post which you replied to had absolutely nothing to do with him. The premise of my post was that RNH for Pacioretty would be a great trade because it makes both teams better. You've said nothing to convince me otherwise.

I know the habs need better center depth, but I still can't understand how you think the huge downgrade between Pacioretty to RNH makes the habs better.

RNH had only 8 more pts than Pacioretty had goals last season. I feel like that's the only thing that is needed to say to prove that swapping Pacioretty with RNH won't make the habs better.

Also your post was made with the assumption that the habs want to get better now. So trading the habs captain and top scorer for a guy who maybe, but very likely not, fill the 1C hole (which I think Drouin is doing a fine job) is far from a smart trade to do.

If Habs want to have a better team right now, they should add good players to the team without removing their top scorer...

 

[sansabri]

RNH is not overpaid. He is overpaid relative to the role the Oilers use him in. The role they use him in also does not put him in a position to produce up to the standard he would need to produce to justify his contract.

Saying he didn't make the Oilers a better team isn't really an argument. Was he their GM? What about Max Pacioretty? Last time I checked, the Canadiens stink so far this season and did WORSE than the Oilers last year. So would it be fair for me to make a stupid argument like Canadiens stink therefore Max Pacioretty could not make anybody better? Sounds kinda silly....

Really? He's stuck in that role because he isn't good enough to be a top flight C - not even a low end one. That showed when the Oilers stank for several more years until they caught lightning in a bottle.

 

[FerrisRox]

patches a good two-way player???????

He is undoubtably a good two way player, what's with the question marks?

 

[FerrisRox]

I was never discussing the prospect of a rebuild. I claimed RNH for Pacioretty makes both teams better.

The Canadiens trading Pacioretty straight up for RNH certainly does not make them better.

 

[ismelofhockey]

So fill in the blanks:

Edmonton trades: Nurse + ???
Edmonton receives: Pacioretty + ???
Colorado trades: Duchene +???
Colorado receives: Nurse + ???
Montreal trades: Pacioretty + ???
Montreal receives: Duchene + ???

 

[Fazkovsky]

Rnh+Puljujärvi would make sense

 

[Joey Moss]

Rnh+Puljujärvi would make sense

That's an insane price for a guy with 1 year left after this one. I'd be disappointed with that unless MTL added a player like Gallagher.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Something along Puljujärvi + Prospect + cap dump makes the most sense. Maybe a conditional pick is thrown in there, but that's about it. Going after RNH now makes no sense. He's not going to catapult the Habs into a playoff berth, especially without Pacioretty. So we need younger, promising assets to rebuild with a hopefully competent GM. If we finish near the bottom this season, we could potential solve our center woes ourselves.

 

[McVespa99]

This is a terrible deal, Montreal are trading the two best players in the deal and not even getting any kind of cap relief.

Just in case you have not looked at his cap hit, term and foot speed, Weber IS the cap relief.
There is zero chance Edmonton would be interested in Weber for anything. He would destroy our cap for years to come.

 

[McVespa99]

How is it terrible? Stop bashing the habs so hard.

They give up two massive pieces for RNH, Poolpart and bits and pieces.

Weber > RNH+
Pacs > Poolparty+

Good for Edm, not so good for mtl. The gap b.w those 2 players is certainly more than Nurse and a 1rst. That trade gives EDM the firepower to win NOW without sacrificing anything, in terms of present, relatively. Get a grip dude.

Weber at this point is nothing more than a cap dump. And a huge dump at that. Yes he is still effective but he is on the decline and his contract goes on forever at a very high cap hit. If you subtracted age and contracts what you say may be correct but the reality of the cap Nhl is that Weber is a dump. I doubt the Habs could get anything for him at this point. Trading Subban for him was a huge mistake

 

[ChaoticOrange]

You meant Byron is completly your best player. Yes you're right

Yes, on a team with McDavid, Draisaitl, Klefbom, Larsson, Talbot, RNH and more, Paul freaking Byron is our best player.

both our teams are warm garbage right now and Byron is a replacement level piece at absolute best.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Really? He's stuck in that role because he isn't good enough to be a top flight C - not even a low end one. That showed when the Oilers stank for several more years until they caught lightning in a bottle.

RNH is in the role he is in because he is not as good as Connor McDavid or Leon Draisaitl.

One player doesn't make a team. You wouldn't trade for Oliver Ekman-Larsson because Arizona has stunk during his tenure there? (Insert any other great player on a bad team if for some reason you think OEL sucks). Again, you're using the exact same poor argument that I already addressed in my last post, you've just slightly altered how you're saying it. It's flimsy.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

Guys, after reading what this guy has to say, maybe we should reconsider and take what we can get for Max. Lucic str8 up

Well, yes, you would generally trade a player nearing free agency for the best thing you can get. I know Bergevin has lowered the bar substantially for what passes as a competent general manager in Montreal, but surely Habs fans haven't forgotten the basics of the sport and asset management in that time.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Weber at this point is nothing more than a cap dump. And a huge dump at that. Yes he is still effective but he is on the decline and his contract goes on forever at a very high cap hit. If you subtracted age and contracts what you say may be correct but the reality of the cap Nhl is that Weber is a dump. I doubt the Habs could get anything for him at this point. Trading Subban for him was a huge mistake

Weber is nothing more than a cap dump

 

[These Are The Days]

Wow... the Oil fans are giving up on JP in a hurry. They must know something's up that we don't.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Well, yes, you would generally trade a player nearing free agency for the best thing you can get. I know Bergevin has lowered the bar substantially for what passes as a competent general manager in Montreal, but surely Habs fans haven't forgotten the basics of the sport and asset management in that time.

Yep, maximise return. Is rnh the best return?