Iafrate Points

tabness

be a playa
Apr 4, 2014
2,006
3,540
We all know that Al Iafrate does not like empty net goals. The story goes that Iafrate was in clear but elected to shoot the puck in the corner rather than into the open net and when asked about it afterwards was quoted as saying:

"empty net goals are for [sissies/pansies/wussies/losers/and some other terms that are more likely to be the actual quote but I will refrain from posting so I don't get banned]"

(does anyone have the actual video of this game and the interview?)

In any case I also think that in general empty net goals are cheap. Sure there are exceptions and some empty net goals are actually pretty impressive and certainly a goalie scoring an empty net goal is almost always cool (and I certainly wouldn't call Ron Hextall for example a "sissy" or whatever) and also empty net goals may be good indicators that a coach trusts a player to protect a lead at the end of the game but in general I do not think they are a good indicator of offensive performance at all.

So I always remove empty net goals from player stats in my (offensive) evaluations. The NHL website makes this easy in their stats page by having a column for empty net goals in their goals by type report (NHL.com - Stats).

But what about assists on empty net goals? Not every hockey player does the honorable thing like Brett Hull and make sure other players don't get cheap empty net assists. I think these in general are even cheaper than empty net goals and I would expect them to be more common than empty net goals just like assists in general.

Despite these issues I was unaware of empty net assists being tracked anywhere and so it was definitely a goal of mine to ensure I tracked empty net assists when gathering boxscore data. As I continue to work on that project recently I stumbled upon the goal finder from Hockey Reference and noticed it allows you to explicitly search for empty net goals which shows not only the goal scorer but also who assisted on the goal among other information (Goal Finder | Hockey-Reference.com). While the data only goes back to the 1979-1980 season and there is some missing data (for example Mario Lemieux scored 69 goals in 1995-1996 but the Hockey Reference goal finder only has 68 goals for him that season) it is still a good basis for starting on Iafrate points.

Iafrate points are simply points excluding empty net points named in honor of Al Iafrate for his principled stance. Let us refer to empty net points as simply cheap points for the purposes this forum. Please note that I did not attempt to correct for any issues in actually granting cheap points (there is data where a goalie is actually present for a empty net goal and I know from going through the NHL statsapi that there are goals with no goalie but that are still not marked as empty net goals)

There were 6707 empty net goals recorded from 1979-1980 to 2017-2018 and 2270 players had a cheap point in that time frame

Highest career cheap points 1979-1980 to 2017-2018

cheap pointsplayer
85Wayne Gretzky
60Marian Hossa
56Jarome Iginla
55Joe Thornton
53Eric Staal
51Ron Francis
50Jaromir Jagr
48Mark Messier
45Mark Recchi
44Mario Lemieux
42Teemu Selanne
41Bryan Trottier
40Patrice Bergeron
40Sidney Crosby
40Steve Yzerman
39Keith Tkachuk
39Ray Bourque
38Alex Ovechkin
37Daniel Alfredsson
37Henrik Zetterberg
36Brendan Shanahan
36Mike Modano
35Blake Wheeler
35David Backes
35Henrik Sedin
35Pavel Datsyuk
34Gary Roberts
34Ilya Kovalchuk
34Jari Kurri
34Nicklas Backstrom
34Zach Parise
33Doug Gilmour
33Mike Bossy
33Patrick Kane
33Rick Nash
33Rod Brind'Amour
32David Legwand
32Evgeni Malkin
32Patrick Marleau
31Anze Kopitar
31Jonathan Toews
31Max Pacioretty
31Pavel Bure
31Rick Tocchet
31Ryan Kesler
30Brad Marchand
30Craig Conroy
30Daniel Sedin
30Olli Jokinen
29Guy Carbonneau
29John Tavares
29Jordan Staal
29Justin Williams
29Mike Ridley
29Shane Doan
29Theoren Fleury
29Tomas Plekanec
28Doug Weight
28Dustin Brown
28Jeremy Roenick
28Joe Pavelski
28Kelly Miller
28Mikko Koivu
28Patrik Elias
27Alexandre Burrows
27Brent Sutter
27Joe Sakic
27Martin St. Louis
27Ray Whitney
27Sergei Fedorov
27Trevor Linden
26Al Macinnis
26Antoine Vermette
26Chris Kelly
26Jamie Langenbrunner
26Keith Primeau
26Michael Grabner
26Michal Handzus
26Mike Fisher
26Milan Lucic
26Peter Stastny
26Radim Vrbata
26Scott Stevens
26Todd Marchant
26Zdeno Chara
25Brandon Dubinsky
25Brian Rolston
25Chris Pronger
25Dale Hunter
25Mats Sundin
25Nicklas Lidstrom
25Patrick Sharp
25Saku Koivu
25Tony Amonte
25Vincent Damphousse
25Vincent Lecavalier
24Alex Kovalev
24David Krejci
24Dino Ciccarelli
24Jason Spezza
24Marian Gaborik
24Paul Coffey
24Paul Kariya
23Adam Oates
23Ed Olczyk
23Jeff Carter
23Loui Eriksson
23P.J. Axelsson
23Paul Stastny
23Tom Fitzgerald
23Troy Murray
22Alex Steen
22Dave Poulin
22Daymond Langkow
22Glenn Anderson
22Logan Couture
22Miroslav Satan
22Murray Craven
22Rob Niedermayer
21Andrew Cogliano
21Chris Chelios
21Corey Perry
21Drew Doughty
21John Maclean
21Mike Gartner
21Radek Bonk
21Rick Middleton
21Steve Kasper
21Steve Larmer
20Brett Hull
20Brian Gionta
20Claude Lemieux
20Denis Savard
20Duncan Keith
20Jamie Benn
20Jason Pominville
20Joel Ward
20Jussi Jokinen
20Kelly Buchberger
20Michael Peca
20Mike Grier
20Peter Forsberg
20Ryan Callahan
20Ryan O'Reilly
20Tyler Seguin
20Valtteri Filppula
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I cut it off at 20 because it simply got too unwieldy to go further. Some real good players are sadly on this list. Yet another record for Wayne Gretzky which he has a large margin of victory but there likely isn't much pride in this one. Some active players have probably already moved up as this table does not account for cheap points from the current season.

Highest career cheap assists 1979-1980 to 2017-2018

cheap assistsplayer
31Ron Francis
29Wayne Gretzky
28Jaromir Jagr
28Joe Thornton
26Mark Recchi
26Patrice Bergeron
24Jarome Iginla
24Nicklas Backstrom
23Craig Conroy
23Eric Staal
23Henrik Zetterberg
23Mark Messier
23Pavel Datsyuk
23Sidney Crosby
22Paul Coffey
22Ray Bourque
21Chris Pronger
21Rod Brind'Amour
20Anze Kopitar
20Jari Kurri
20Marian Hossa
19Al Macinnis
19David Legwand
19Drew Doughty
19Duncan Keith
19Henrik Sedin
19Joe Pavelski
19Ryan Kesler
19Zdeno Chara
18Adam Oates
18Chris Chelios
18Dale Hunter
18Jonathan Toews
18Michal Handzus
18Mike Bossy
18Mike Modano
18Mikko Koivu
18Sergei Fedorov
18Steve Yzerman
17Brandon Dubinsky
17Brendan Shanahan
17Bryan Trottier
17Daniel Sedin
17Doug Gilmour
17Loui Eriksson
17Mike Fisher
17Olli Jokinen
17Ryan Suter
17Saku Koivu
17Scott Niedermayer
17Scott Stevens
17Teppo Numminen
16Blake Wheeler
16Brent Sutter
16David Krejci
16Jordan Staal
16Keith Tkachuk
16Ray Whitney
16Ryan O'Reilly
16Teemu Selanne
16Thomas Steen
16Todd Marchant
15Alex Kovalev
15Brent Seabrook
15Jason Spezza
15Jeremy Roenick
15Kelly Miller
15Murray Craven
15Nicklas Lidstrom
15P.J. Axelsson
15Patrick Kane
15Tomas Plekanec
15Vincent Lecavalier
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Gretzky is probably happy to let Ron Francis have this record. 1415 cheap goals were left unassisted.

Highest cheap points in a season 1979-1980 to 2017-2018

playerseasoncheap points
Jaromir Jagr2000-200110
Wayne Gretzky1986-19879
Mike Ridley1992-19939
Keith Tkachuk1996-19979
Mario Lemieux1996-19979
Pavel Bure1999-20009
Jamie Benn2015-20169
Eric Staal2016-20179
Craig Ramsay1979-19808
Wayne Gretzky1988-19898
Theo Fleury1997-19988
Mike Modano2002-20038
Alex Ovechkin2008-20098
Eric Staal2009-20108
Olli Jokinen2011-20128
Joe Thornton2014-20158
Jean-Gabriel Pageau2015-20168
Patrick Kane2016-20178
Sidney Crosby2017-20188
Vincent Trocheck2017-20188
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I cut it off at the 20 seasons of 8 or more cheap points as there were 40 seasons of 7! Jaromir Jagr is the only player with double digit cheap points in a season (from 1979-1980 to 2017-2018).

Season by season cheap points leaders 1979-1980 to 2017-2018

seasonplayer(s)cheap points
1979-1980Craig Ramsey8
1980-1981Bryan Trottier
Mike Bossy
Wayne Gretzky
7
1981-1982Mike Bossy7
1982-1983Paul Coffey
Ron Francis
5
1983-1984Wayne Gretzky7
1984-1985Dwight Foster6
1985-1986Murray Craven
Troy Murray
Wayne Gretzky
6
1986-1987Wayne Gretzky9
1987-1988Denis Savard6
1988-1989Wayne Gretzky8
1989-1990Brent Sutter7
1990-1991Ray Bourque7
1991-1992Mike Ridley
Wayne Gretzky
7
1992-1993Mike Ridley9
1993-1994Brendan Shanahan6
1994-1995Dino Ciccarelli
Keith Primeau
4
1995-1996Keith Tkachuk7
1996-1997Keith Tkachuk
Mario Lemieux
9
1997-1998Theo Fleury8
1998-1999Alexei Yashin
Chris Pronger
Craig Conroy
Tony Amonte
5
1999-2000Pavel Bure9
2000-2001Jaromir Jagr10
2001-2002Bryan Smolinski6
2002-2003Mike Modano8
2003-2004Jason Blake
Mike Peca
6
2005-2006Michal Handzus
Vinny Prospal
5
2006-2007Jarome Iginla7
2007-2008Evgeni Malkin6
2008-2009Alex Ovechkin8
2009-2010Eric Staal8
2010-2011Nicklas Backstrom
Patrice Bergeron
7
2011-2012Olli Jokinen8
2012-2013Blake Wheeler5
2013-2014Andrew Cogliano
Jarome Iginla
Max Pacioretty
6
2014-2015Joe Thronton8
2015-2016Jamie Benn9
2016-2017Eric Staal9
2017-2018Sidney Crosby
Vincent Trocheck
8
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Iafrate point leader different from scoring leader

  • 1979-1980 (was tied): Wayne Gretzky 134 (Marcel Dionne 132)
  • 1994-1995 (was tied): Eric Lindros 68 and Jaromir Jagr 68
  • 2000-2001: Joe Sakic 116 (Jaromir Jagr 111)
  • 2002-2003: Markus Naslund 104 and Peter Forsberg 104
  • 2014-2015: Jamie Benn 84 and John Tavares 84
The highest scoring player who never scored a cheap point from 1979-1980 to 2017-2018 is Reijo Ruotsalainen with 344 wholesome Iafrate points

Technically speaking Guy Chouinard and Steve Shutt scored more points in the time frame without scoring a cheap point but since their careers predate 1979-1980 I cannot give them such an honor without confirming

Al Iafrate himself unfortunately scored 3 cheap points

dateteamopponentgoalfirst assistsecond assistperiodtimesituation
12/15/87toronto maple leafswashington capitalsed olczykal iafratetom fergus3rd19:51ev
2/18/92washington capitalssan jose sharksal iafratedale hunterkelly miller3rd19:25ev
12/5/92washington capitalsnew york islandersmike ridleydale hunteral iafrate3rd19:52ev
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I bet the goal is an error in scorer transcription and I can only imagine what happened in the locker room after the game after the other two empty net goals were scored

No excuse for these cheap points

I know some of you will come at me with the talk that cheap points are valuable for ensuring the win. Well these guys don't even have that going for them. These are the empty net goals (not at weird times discussed below) that didn't win the game in regulation (four empty net goals were actually scored in games where the player's team lost but they were all at weird times):

dateteamopponentlocationresultgoalfirst assistsecond assistperiodtime
12/30/88minnesota north starsst louis bluesroadtiemarc habscheidneal brotenbrian maclellan3rd19:27
11/24/08new york islandersmontreal canadiensroadwin (so)bill guerin 3rd15:13
4/4/10vancouver canucksminnesota wildhomewin (ot)alexander edler 3rd19:05
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Empty net goals due to brilliant coaching (brought to you by Patrick Roy)

Coaches having been pulling the goalie earlier in recent seasons but I remember that Patrick Roy was on another level at doing this and even though it worked sometimes it seemed to backfire just as much and I never understood why (maybe he was still traumatized by a game where he felt he should have been pulled earlier :sarcasm:). So here are the empty net goals at really weird times (not in the last 5 minutes of the third):


dateteamopponentresultgoalfirst assistsecond assistperiodtime
11/28/79new york islanderscolorado rockieslossbilly smith 3rd4:50
11/29/87new york rangersnew york islanderswindavid shaw 2nd8:59
3/27/88new jersey devilsnew york rangerswinpat conacherrandy velischekclaude loiselle3rd14:43
4/1/89st louis bluestoronto maple leafswin (ot)gino cavallinibernie federkogreg paslawskiot4:10
4/2/89pittsburgh penguinsphiladelphia flyerswin (ot)mario lemieuxtroy loney ot3:38
4/16/92winnipeg jets (1979)san jose sharkswined olczyk 2nd19:46
4/12/93washington capitalsmontreal canadienswin (ot)mike ridleybob carpenterkevin hatcherot4:12
11/2/93detroit red wingsboston bruinswinpaul coffey 2nd3:30
12/4/97new jersey devilspittsburgh penguinswinbob carpenterkevin dean 3rd8:44
11/25/98toronto maple leafsvancouver canuckswindmitry yushkevich 3rd10:58
12/29/98montreal canadiensedmonton oilerswinmark recchi 1st5:56
1/2/99ottawa senatorsnew jersey devilswindamian rhodes 1st8:14
2/15/00new jersey devilsphiladelphia flyerswinmartin brodeur 3rd9:43
4/7/00edmonton oilersvancouver canuckswinrem murray ot4:01
3/25/03columbus blue jacketslos angeles kingswin (ot)andrew cassels ot4:12
12/31/05mighty ducks of anaheimst louis blueswin (so)vitaly vishnevski 2nd7:27
4/15/06nashville predatorsphoenix coyoteswinchris mason 3rd10:47
1/16/08chicago blackhawksst louis blueswinpatrick kanerobert langbrent seabrook3rd14:38
3/21/09phoenix coyotesvancouver canuckswinviktor tikhonov 2nd10:30
1/12/14edmonton oilerschicago blackhawkslossboyd gordon 2nd11:29
3/29/14buffalo sabrestampa bay lightningloss (ot)cory conacher 3rd8:14
11/28/14vancouver canuckscolumbus blue jacketswinbrad richardsonnick bonino 3rd14:38
12/20/14vancouver canuckscalgary flameswin (ot)yannick weber 1st4:40
2/19/15washington capitalswinnipeg jets (2011)wintroy brouwer 3rd13:33
2/24/15nashville predatorscolorado avalanchewineric nystromroman josi 3rd8:28
3/17/15st louis bluescalgary flameswindavid backes 3rd14:25
1/26/16san jose sharkscolorado avalanchewinpaul martinbrent burns 3rd8:21
2/4/16florida panthersdetroit red wingswinvincent trocheckreilly smithjussi jokinen3rd14:19
2/21/16minnesota wildchicago blackhawkswinerik haula 3rd13:49
2/21/16vancouver canuckscolorado avalanchewinchris tanevhenrik sedindaniel sedin3rd11:37
3/22/16dallas starschicago blackhawkswincody eakinjamie benn 3rd13:48
3/26/16minnesota wildcolorado avalanchewinmikael granlunderik haula 3rd11:06
4/9/16ottawa senatorsboston bruinswinjean-gabriel pageau 3rd11:33
4/9/16ottawa senatorsboston bruinswinzack smithjean-gabriel pageau 3rd14:29
10/15/16calgary flamesvancouver canucksloss (so)troy brouwer 1st9:14
12/13/16dallas starsanaheim duckswinradek faksajordie benn 3rd13:57
1/5/17nashville predatorstampa bay lightningwincolton sissonscalle jarnkrok 3rd14:02
1/14/17st louis bluessan jose sharkswinalex steenjaden schwartzkevin shattenkirk3rd14:37
2/9/17ottawa senatorsdallas starswinchris kelly 1st17:55
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Some are likely own goals and I'd imagine the overtime ones were due to pulling the goalie to try and win for playoff positioning but yeah...

Wouldn't a shooter tutor be better than a goalie who lets in empty net goals?

dateteamopponentgoalfirst assistsecond assistgoalieperiodtime
10/14/16edmonton oilerscalgary flamesleon draisaitlmilan lucicdarnell nursebrian elliott3rd18:40
11/30/16new york islanderspittsburgh penguinsnikolai kulemincasey cizikas matt murray3rd19:36
1/16/17san jose sharkswinnipeg jets (2011)joe thornton michael hutchinson3rd19:50
2/4/17pittsburgh penguinsst louis bluessidney crosby jake allen3rd19:42
11/3/17nashville predatorsanaheim ducksp.k. subbanpekka rinneaustin watsonjohn gibson3rd19:42
11/21/17dallas starsmontreal canadienstyler seguinalexander radulov charlie lindgren3rd19:33
12/1/17winnipeg jets (2011)vegas golden knightskyle connormark scheifeleblake wheelermaxime lagace3rd18:52
12/14/17columbus blue jacketsnew york islandersjosh anderson thomas greiss3rd19:59
12/22/17florida panthersminnesota wildjonathan huberdeaualeksander barkov alex stalock3rd19:54
2/2/18minnesota wildvegas golden knightseric staalmathew dumbajonas brodindevan dubnyk3rd18:31
2/16/18new york islanderscarolina hurricanesjohn tavares cam ward3rd19:28
2/24/18washington capitalsbuffalo sabreslars elleralex chiassonmatt niskanenrobin lehner3rd17:48
3/8/18san jose sharksst louis bluestomas hertlbrent burns jake allen3rd19:45
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

This is either scorer transcription error or perhaps they are now starting to call it a goal against the goalie and an empty net goal when the goalie is out of the net but hasn't made it to the bench but it must suck to be a goalie that lets in empty net goals.

ALL OF THIS IS JUST JOKES AND INTERESTING STATS NO OFFENSE TO ANY PLAYERS OR ANYONE :]
 

Howie Hodge

Zombie Woof
Sep 16, 2017
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Vujtek

Registered User
Oct 7, 2007
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Wouldn't a shooter tutor be better than a goalie who lets in empty net goals?

dateteamopponentgoalfirst assistsecond assistgoalieperiodtime
10/14/16edmonton oilerscalgary flamesleon draisaitlmilan lucicdarnell nursebrian elliott3rd18:40
11/30/16new york islanderspittsburgh penguinsnikolai kulemincasey cizikasmatt murray3rd19:36
1/16/17san jose sharkswinnipeg jets (2011)joe thorntonmichael hutchinson3rd19:50
2/4/17pittsburgh penguinsst louis bluessidney crosbyjake allen3rd19:42
11/3/17nashville predatorsanaheim ducksp.k. subbanpekka rinneaustin watsonjohn gibson3rd19:42
11/21/17dallas starsmontreal canadienstyler seguinalexander radulovcharlie lindgren3rd19:33
12/1/17winnipeg jets (2011)vegas golden knightskyle connormark scheifeleblake wheelermaxime lagace3rd18:52
12/14/17columbus blue jacketsnew york islandersjosh andersonthomas greiss3rd19:59
12/22/17florida panthersminnesota wildjonathan huberdeaualeksander barkovalex stalock3rd19:54
2/2/18minnesota wildvegas golden knightseric staalmathew dumbajonas brodindevan dubnyk3rd18:31
2/16/18new york islanderscarolina hurricanesjohn tavarescam ward3rd19:28
2/24/18washington capitalsbuffalo sabreslars elleralex chiassonmatt niskanenrobin lehner3rd17:48
3/8/18san jose sharksst louis bluestomas hertlbrent burnsjake allen3rd19:45
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
This is either scorer transcription error or perhaps they are now starting to call it a goal against the goalie and an empty net goal when the goalie is out of the net but hasn't made it to the bench but it must suck to be a goalie that lets in empty net goals.

Both of those goals in Penguins' games (by Crosby and Kulemin) were definitely empty-net goals. They both were scored straight after a faceoff in the neutral zone with goalies already on bench for the faceoff. They also aren't counted as GA for goalies in the official scoresheet or on the goalies official stats so must be some transcription error where you took the stats from.

As for situations when the goalie is out of the net but hasn't made it to the bench - those are always goals scored on a goalie and not empty-net goals on statsheets.
 

Hockey Outsider

Registered User
Jan 16, 2005
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We all know that Al Iafrate does not like empty net goals. The story goes that Iafrate was in clear but elected to shoot the puck in the corner rather than into the open net and when asked about it afterwards was quoted as saying:

Great research and great thread title!

It would also be interesting to see EN points percentages. For example, Gretzky is by far the leader in EN points, but it's only 2.9% of his career total. Proportionally, that puts him well behind the next several players on the list - ie Hossa, Iginla, Thornton, Staal, etc.

That being said, there's definitely some value in the EN points. If nothing else, it shows that the player was trusted by his coach late in close games. For example, Bergeron has more than 5% of his career points coming from EN goals - that sounds really high, but it means he got a lot of ice time in these tough situations.
 
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MakeTheGoalsLarger

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Brett Hull complained about not getting playtime while the other net is empty during his 86 goals season. If I recall correctly he had 0 empty netters and if it weren't for empty netters scored by Gretzky during his 92 goals season, Hull would have the season record.
 

tmg

Registered User
Jul 10, 2003
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Both of those goals in Penguins' games (by Crosby and Kulemin) were definitely empty-net goals. They both were scored straight after a faceoff in the neutral zone with goalies already on bench for the faceoff. They also aren't counted as GA for goalies in the official scoresheet or on the goalies official stats so must be some transcription error where you took the stats from.

In these games .... did the trailing team later score a goal, resulting in the empty-netter being the GWG?

I wonder if whatever statkeeping had to be done to assign the loss to a goalie-of-record, rather than have the loss suffered by the empty net as no goalie actually conceded the GWG, is the root of this bookkeeping weirdness.
 

tmg

Registered User
Jul 10, 2003
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Brett Hull complained about not getting playtime while the other net is empty during his 86 goals season. If I recall correctly he had 0 empty netters and if it weren't for empty netters scored by Gretzky during his 92 goals season, Hull would have the season record.

Maybe the OP can break down how many ENG Gretzky had in 81-82, but we can see from the above stats that the empty net points leader that year was Mike Bossy, alone with 7. The chart shows ties if they exist so Gretzky couldn't have had more than 6 empty net points. If Gretzky had exactly 6 empty net points and all six were goals then the case could be made Hull earned a share of the record. Did he?
 

Vujtek

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Oct 7, 2007
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In these games .... did the trailing team later score a goal, resulting in the empty-netter being the GWG?

I wonder if whatever statkeeping had to be done to assign the loss to a goalie-of-record, rather than have the loss suffered by the empty net as no goalie actually conceded the GWG, is the root of this bookkeeping weirdness.

No. The ENG in those games were the last goals scored in the game.
 

tabness

be a playa
Apr 4, 2014
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I forgot to post total empty net goals by season (the recent trend is yet another thing for those who say the league has become softer :sarcasm:):

seasoncheap goalsgamesrate
1979-19801088400.13
1980-19811258400.15
1981-19821118400.13
1982-19831138400.13
1983-19841258400.15
1984-19851028400.12
1985-19861168400.14
1986-19871218400.14
1987-1988918400.11
1988-19891328400.16
1989-19901458400.17
1990-19911098400.13
1991-19921338800.15
1992-199313810080.14
1993-199415410920.14
1994-1995966240.15
1995-199615910660.15
1996-199717910660.17
1997-199817510660.16
1998-199915211070.14
1999-200018211480.16
2000-200120812300.17
2001-200220112300.16
2002-200318512300.15
2003-200418612300.15
2005-200617812300.14
2006-200720512300.17
2007-200821512300.17
2008-200922712300.18
2009-201020312300.17
2010-201122712300.18
2011-201223812300.19
2012-20131387200.19
2013-201422312300.18
2014-201529212300.24
2015-201636812300.30
2016-201729612300.24
2017-201835112710.28
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Both of those goals in Penguins' games (by Crosby and Kulemin) were definitely empty-net goals. They both were scored straight after a faceoff in the neutral zone with goalies already on bench for the faceoff. They also aren't counted as GA for goalies in the official scoresheet or on the goalies official stats so must be some transcription error where you took the stats from.

As for situations when the goalie is out of the net but hasn't made it to the bench - those are always goals scored on a goalie and not empty-net goals on statsheets.

Thanks for checking on those. It seemed weird that goalies were only in for recent seasons. Must be a issue with Hockey Reference transcription.

Great research and great thread title!

It would also be interesting to see EN points percentages. For example, Gretzky is by far the leader in EN points, but it's only 2.9% of his career total. Proportionally, that puts him well behind the next several players on the list - ie Hossa, Iginla, Thornton, Staal, etc.

That being said, there's definitely some value in the EN points. If nothing else, it shows that the player was trusted by his coach late in close games. For example, Bergeron has more than 5% of his career points coming from EN goals - that sounds really high, but it means he got a lot of ice time in these tough situations.

Yeah I wish I had done that but I do not have player career totals ready to quickly calculate in a spreadsheet yet.

Brett Hull complained about not getting playtime while the other net is empty during his 86 goals season. If I recall correctly he had 0 empty netters and if it weren't for empty netters scored by Gretzky during his 92 goals season, Hull would have the season record.

Maybe the OP can break down how many ENG Gretzky had in 81-82, but we can see from the above stats that the empty net points leader that year was Mike Bossy, alone with 7. The chart shows ties if they exist so Gretzky couldn't have had more than 6 empty net points. If Gretzky had exactly 6 empty net points and all six were goals then the case could be made Hull earned a share of the record. Did he?

Checking on empty net goals is pretty easy on the NHL website:

NHL.com - Stats

Looks like Gretzky is the leader with 88 Iafrate goals in 1981-1982 but Hull moves up to second with 86 in 1990-1991 (Gretzky 1983-1984 only has 81 Iafrate goals)
 

biotk

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Jan 3, 2017
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Maybe the OP can break down how many ENG Gretzky had in 81-82, but we can see from the above stats that the empty net points leader that year was Mike Bossy, alone with 7. The chart shows ties if they exist so Gretzky couldn't have had more than 6 empty net points. If Gretzky had exactly 6 empty net points and all six were goals then the case could be made Hull earned a share of the record. Did he?

Gretzky had 4 ENG during the season he scored 92.

(edit - I didn't realize someone had already posted this)
 
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93LEAFS

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Nov 7, 2009
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If I had a player on my team with Iafrete's supposed attitude, I might bench him in empty net situations with that attitude. I get they may not feel earned, but not scoring (unless you are talking about with like 3 seconds left), is a detriment to your team.

Great article/write-up and interesting research. They are ticky-tacky points and possibly should be categorized differently. But, dumping it into the corner is insane with a one-goal lead. At least skate it into the corner scrum it.
 

BigBadBruins7708

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Dec 11, 2017
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I get the premise and all, I disagree that they are "cheap" points for a few reasons.

1. they are earned because you are scoring 5 on 6 against a team at its most desperate point. it takes all out effort just to not give up a goal there, nevermind score one

2. more often than not, it takes very good defensive plays and fighting through the neutral zone to get an EN shot

3. they are arguably the truest definition of a GWG. Scoring an empty netter slams the door shut. And are far more "game winning" than most GWG players get credited for.

such as scoring to make it 4-1 in the 2nd, and getting that as a "GWG" because your team gave up 2 to make it 4-3


edit: its no coincidence the "cheap points" list is littered with very good 2 way forwards like Bergeron, Marchand, Hossa, Messier, Toews, Dastyuk, Zetterberg, Kopitar, Kessler
 
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VoluntaryDom

Formerly DominicBoltsFan / Ⓐ / ✞
Oct 31, 2016
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i dont get the OT empty netters lol

i remember the conacher vs tampa one. stamkos passed it to the point and mike kostka couldnt control it and it went all the way back into the empty net iirc. it was a delayed call. not even sure conacher was still on the ice but he got the goal lol. iirc the penalty may have been on him?
 

Oddbob

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Jan 21, 2016
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Empty netters aren't about getting easy points, they are about making sure your team wins the hockey game. If your team is only up one, and they do the "honourable" (laughable when used in this instance) thing and not score, and then moments later they get scored on to force overtime and then lose, is that a good way to be???

While Brett Hull's fixation with not doing this is comical and enjoyable, no one deserves to have their scoring into an empty net turned into some being cheap, when every coach everywhere would be screaming at their players to put the puck in the empty net, and not fart around with it, risking a loss. Dallas did win their game, but ask Patrik Stefan if he wishes he hadn't messed up his empty net chance.
 

SotasicA

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Aug 25, 2014
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The story goes that Iafrate was in clear but elected to shoot the puck in the corner rather than into the open net and when asked about it afterwards was quoted as saying:

"empty net goals are for [sissies/pansies/wussies/losers/and some other terms that are more likely to be the actual quote but I will refrain from posting so I don't get banned]"
He missed trying to score an empty netter. Then defended himself with "empty nets are for sissies", which then took off as a sort of a meme, before memes were a thing.

He may have avoided scoring one later on, instead opting to clear the puck, but it was mostly tongue-in-cheek to begin with.

I miss the Wild Thing.
 
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The Panther

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Mar 25, 2014
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Interesting post, thanks. (Slightly scary how much time the OP must have put into it, but nevertheless interesting.)

Just one thing to add: I don't think it's quite right/fair to simply subtract empty-net goals/points from a player's theoretical total. To use Gretzky as the obvious example (lots of EN points; long career), if he has 85 or whatever EN points, that means he was on the ice for at least -- what? -- 85 minutes late in third periods. In normal Gretzky terms, 85 minutes is like 3.5 games' worth of ice-time. And 3.5 games of Gretzky is around 8 points under normal circumstances.

So, by subtracting 85 points off Gretzky's total, it's actually slightly misleading, as he probably would have scored 8 or whatever points with the goaltender in the net. And the same goes for all players, roughly proportional to how many points they would have normally scored under normal circumstances.

Hossa and Iginla are very surprising to me... I mean, to be 2nd and 3rd all-time in total points.
 

masa2009

Registered User
May 11, 2011
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Do you have any idea of what was the longest point streak without the streak being kept alive by an empty net point (at least during the era you researched)?
When Gretzky scored in 51 straight games, how long was his streak once you factor in the empty net points?
 

Vujtek

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Oct 7, 2007
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Do you have any idea of what was the longest point streak without the streak being kept alive by an empty net point (at least during the era you researched)?
When Gretzky scored in 51 straight games, how long was his streak once you factor in the empty net points?

Lemieux's 46 game point streak was done without the help of empty-net points. That is to say he scored atleast one non-empty-net point in each of those 46 games.

Gretzky extended his point streak to 44 games by scoring an empty-net goal two seconds before the end of the game against Chicago. That was Gretzky's only point in that game. Gretzky scored atleast one "regular point" in every other game during that 51 game point streak. But for Gretzky his point streak was 43 games without being kept alive by an empty net point.
 
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sr edler

gold is not reality
Mar 20, 2010
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The story goes that Iafrate was in clear but elected to shoot the puck in the corner rather than into the open net

Seems outstandingly stupid and egotistical to shoot the puck into the corner if there's time left on the clock, risking giving away the puck to your opponents. Why not hold on to the puck instead through skating or pass it to one of your teammates if you're too edgy and early 90s cool to score on empty nets? Or was Iafrate (and Brett Hull) not good enough to keep it through skating? If I was his coach and he did that I would healthy scratch him for the next 5 games and then never let him protect a lead in the dying minutes again.

Just seems like something someone who wants attention (and is probably not getting enough through his regular play) would do.

Only time you shouldn't try to score on an empty net is if the other team is penalized and you risk icing the puck and end up losing possession in your defensive zone through a face-off.
 

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