I Need help understanding the 'new' +/- statistic

[Rogie]

I'm confused about +/- stats and how to interpret and put it in context and need some perspective. Especially, with respect to the stat that is being called QofC or RelQofC.

I think because there is 2 different +/- stats and that is part of the confusion for me.

Is this correct? Are there 2 different plus/minus measures.

One measure of the stat is the traditional +/- that measures simply whether a player is on the ice when their team scores, and the player gets a +1, or the player is on the ice when his team is scored against and then he gets a -1, and this is just for even strength - PK and PP goals are NOT part of the traditional +/- measure.
This is the first plus/minus stat that I know and think I understand (maybe not perfectly). I think I can understand arguments about how this stat can be flawed and how to used context in order to use this traditional plus/minus stat.

Then, there is the 'new' plus/minus stat (I think?) and I don't understand how this is measured or what the heck it is. I think (?) it is based on Corsi (Fenwick) events that are basically Corsi events (shots, misses, blocks, etc) and the plus minus is a measure of the difference between shots taken and shots given up. Or, this is all wrong and I am confused! So, to continue, for team X, when player X is on the ice, if the team averages 55 shots/60 mins for (or rather Corsis) and gives up 54 shots/60 against, then player x would have a plus minus of +1. And so on, (kind of in this way) each player has a plus minus based on shots (Corsi events). Then, by extension, a Relative plus minus can be calculated based on comparing plus minuses to other team members only. Above mentioned player X who had a plus/minus of 1 will have a better Relative plus/minus than a teammate who has a plus/minus of -1.

And of course, I realize, (if correct) that the above is, in fact, simply - a player's Corsi number, which is the difference between shots for and against, which is, again, a plus/minus number. Other sites can calculate the raw numbers back into percentages, but, it is still the same data, just presented in % form rather than a number form. The raw number of Corsi can be a rate expressed per/20mins or per/60min.. Nevertheless, it's the same data, just expressed in a different way.

So (?), one method (based on shots plus/minus, NOT traditional plus/minus) of CorsiQofC or Rel Corsi QofC, is a measure based on the average shot plus/minus of the players that a player plays against (but, using the plus/minus average when they weren't playing against him).


Is this kind of the way the new plus/minus stat is calculated? Or, not really at all?

Anyone mind helping - keep it simple if you wouldn't mind.

EDIT: I should have said, the QofC and RelQofC that I am talking about above is what is labelled Corsi QofC and RelCorsi QofC on the Behind the Net site. On Behind the Net site, they also have +/-On/60 and +/-Off60 and that is adding to my confusion. I fear those are the +/-'s numbers that are also being used in another method or measure of QofC and that is adding to my confusion.

Click to read more...

 

[Thesensation19*]

Are you referring to Corsi... where its basically Plus and Minus for shots?

Or do you know what Corsi is and are asking something different.
Quite confused with all the advanced stats too.

Honestly the worst thing about the stats are its presentations.
Graphs and charts and stats are shown with nomenclatures and acronyms and the glossaries are hardly ever helpful in explaining all of them

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Your first batch of stats are quality of competition. +/- QoC is the average measure of the +/- of opponents, weighted by icetime. So if I play equal time against a guy who's a +2 and another who's -1, my +/-Qoc is 1.

The other variation of +/- is on/off, which is just +/- when on the ice compared to overall +/- when you're off it, so if I'm a +1 on the ice and my team allows 2 goals while scoring none in the remainder of the ESTOI, I'm a +3.

Corsi and Fenwick are shot attempt differentials, with Corsi including blocked shots and Fenwick ignoring them.

Also, Behindthenet should have a glossary. I know its explanations are brief, but if you post the parts that are confusing, I can elaborate.

 

[tmg]

One measure of the stat is the traditional +/- that measures simply whether a player is on the ice when their team scores, and the player gets a +1, or the player is on the ice when his team is scored against and then he gets a -1, and this is just for even strength - PK and PP goals are NOT part of the traditional +/- measure.

Shorthanded goals are factored into traditional +/-. PP goals aren't, but SH goals are - players on the ice for a shorthanded scoring team get a +1 and players on the scored-upon power play get a -1.

 

[Rogie]

Shorthanded goals are factored into traditional +/-. PP goals aren't, but SH goals are - players on the ice for a shorthanded scoring team get a +1 and players on the scored-upon power play get a -1.

Thanks for this, yes, I understood the plus minus counts if YOU score when you are shorthanded.

 

[Rogie]

Are you referring to Corsi... where its basically Plus and Minus for shots?

Or do you know what Corsi is and are asking something different.
Quite confused with all the advanced stats too.

Honestly the worst thing about the stats are its presentations.
Graphs and charts and stats are shown with nomenclatures and acronyms and the glossaries are hardly ever helpful in explaining all of them

No, I'm not referring to Corsi per se. I think I understand Corsi and Rel Corsi okay.

It's the Corsi QofC and Corsi Rel QofC AND the other +/-QoC that I was confusing.

I think I am starting to see it now though.

 

[Rogie]

Your first batch of stats are quality of competition. +/- QoC is the average measure of the +/- of opponents, weighted by icetime. So if I play equal time against a guy who's a +2 and another who's -1, my +/-Qoc is 1.

The other variation of +/- is on/off, which is just +/- when on the ice compared to overall +/- when you're off it, so if I'm a +1 on the ice and my team allows 2 goals while scoring none in the remainder of the ESTOI, I'm a +3.

Corsi and Fenwick are shot attempt differentials, with Corsi including blocked shots and Fenwick ignoring them.

Also, Behindthenet should have a glossary. I know its explanations are brief, but if you post the parts that are confusing, I can elaborate.

This is helpful thanks.

My first batch of stats - I assume you mean the traditional plus minus that I talked about? Right, so, on Behind the Net, when I (check) toggle the QualComp box and hit enter, then, I go across to the column that says +/-QofC - that Quality of Competition is then based on traditional +/- to measure a players quality of competition - okay, I see that now. Although, under the Label Heading at the top, it says, 'average RELATIVE plus/minus of opposing players, weighted by head-to-head ice time". So, OKAY, whether it's relative or actual plus/minus, the point is that it IS using traditional plus minus.

So, that is +/-QofC and is often referred to here on HF boards by users. I think I get this now.

You called my first batch of stats Quality of Competition and mention later Corsi and Fenwick are shot differentials. Right, I get that these are shot attempt differentials.

But, Corsi is also used to measure quality of competition - is this correct. So, Corsi QofC and CorsiRel QofC is another way to measure the quality of competition. Is this correct?

They seem to be to me. They measure the average Corsis of a players opponent.

It seems posters use the +/-QofC more and I'm understanding that stat now. I've (for whatever reason I'm not sure) generally always thought about the Corsi stat moreso when thinking about a players quality of competition. This might because people always talk about the tradition plus/minus being more a team stat and, again, having it's flaws.

I guess my confusion is that it seems posters don't think of the CorsiQofC or CorsiRelQofC as measures of competition or as good a measure as the traditional plus minus? It's my impression people don't see the CorsiQoC or CorsiRelQofC as a quality of competition measure - am I wrong here?

 

[Rogie]

Your first batch of stats are quality of competition. +/- QoC is the average measure of the +/- of opponents, weighted by icetime. So if I play equal time against a guy who's a +2 and another who's -1, my +/-Qoc is 1.

The other variation of +/- is on/off, which is just +/- when on the ice compared to overall +/- when you're off it, so if I'm a +1 on the ice and my team allows 2 goals while scoring none in the remainder of the ESTOI, I'm a +3.

Corsi and Fenwick are shot attempt differentials, with Corsi including blocked shots and Fenwick ignoring them.

Also, Behindthenet should have a glossary. I know its explanations are brief, but if you post the parts that are confusing, I can elaborate.

Sorry, is this just a math error?

+2 + -1 / 2 = +.5 not +1