I don't get the NHL. What is the point of drafting now?

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by Puckclektr, Aug 11, 2005.

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  1. Puckclektr

    Puckclektr Registered User

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    I just don't get the leauge now. What is the point of drafting a star player when he is free to go anywhere he wants before he even hits his prime? Pittsburgh drafted Sidney who I am sure will be an excellent player, but how can you build a team around him if he has the right to go when he is 25? He won't even be at his best. All these young star players, like Thornton, Nash, Staal, Ovechkin, Crosby could most likely be leaving their teams. Apparently Gomez wants a two year deal so he can leave at the end of the contract to go play with whoever he wants. HE has to be replaced, but with someone willing to go to NJ. That is when the bidding wars begin...
    HOw is a well drafted/managed team supposed to pay their players without going over the cap? Look at a team like Ottawa. HOw can you possible pay Hossa, HAvlat, Spezza, Chara, Redden, Phillips, Alfredson etc. whithout going over the cap? It isn't like they are UFA's. I can understand a team that has signed all kinds of UFA's going over the cap because it is unfair, as anybody can sign a UFA. A ten year old can manage a good hockey team buy signing UFA's. But try being a great GM and try to pay YOUR players without going over the cap? What is going to happen to a teams that draft great and lose players because they can only pay out so much to their stars?
    The NHL has done a great job trying to improve the style of the game especially if they enforce the rules(obstruction). But what I don't understand is how you can run a league where everyone is running around picking and choosing what teams they can play for at such a young age. What is the point of drafting good players? I would rather have a team with by a bunch of players in their prime, than a team full of good young prospects. What is a good youthful prospect team going to get you if you acn't afford to pay them in a few years. What if they all leave? I would be trading the majority of my picks and prospects as they are almost useless now....
    Your thoughts?
     
  2. Resolute

    Resolute Registered User

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    Well, there is an obvious reason: You get that player for seven years.

    Are you trying to argue that these guys are useless to the clubs that draft them for those first seven years, and only gain value once they leave for another team?
     
  3. Puckclektr

    Puckclektr Registered User

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    No. I even said he will be an excellent player, but will be even better after he leaves. A player reaches their prime after 25.
     
  4. Larionov

    Larionov Registered User

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    What everyone forgets is that under the cap, other teams are facing the same financial restrictions you are. This will prevent the big market teams from making outrageous offers to your free agents, because they also have a cap. That wasn't the case before, but the landscape has now changed.

    So if you are Sidney Crosby seven years from now, comfortable in Pittsburgh, happy with your team and your community, why are you leaving? Your team's offer is going to be comparable to what anyone else can offer. Players may want to leave in order to "play for a winner", be closer to home, etc., but the payscale for top end guys is going to be pretty standardized.
     
  5. Puckclektr

    Puckclektr Registered User

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    No. I even said he will be an excellent player, but will be even better after he leaves. A player reaches their prime after 25. Why not just draft players when they are 25? When you purchase a steak that you want medium well, are you going to eat it before when it is medium rare, or would you rather wait until it was just right. Now this steak isn't a meal. This is something that could make your break your business.
     
  6. Oilerfan120582

    Oilerfan120582 Registered User

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    Exactly, a lot of players want to test the market, but unless their team is in cap trouble I imagine we'll see a larger percentage of UFAs staying put.
     
  7. An excellent question, and one not being considered at all by those criticizing Doug MacLean for attempting to reach a quick, haggle-free deal w/Nash.

    Dealing with young stars in such a manner that, when UFA does come at 25, they don't recall having been bent over a barrel earlier --- and want to stay --- will become a huge part of this new CBA.
     
  8. Drake1588

    Drake1588 UNATCO

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    The answer is that you don't play a guy when he's 18 years old. Make him a rookie at age 20. Or 21.

    Stash the average to good guys for two more years in junior, then give them some seasoning in the AHL until they are 21.

    There is no rule that says a player selected #1 overall has to play in the NHL when he's 18 years old. Or even 21.

    Only short-sighted GMs will be quick to play their star prospects at age 18. Play them at 21, and as a result the players will not have the seven years under their belts until they are 28, when the standard UFA age kicks in.
     
  9. Puckclektr

    Puckclektr Registered User

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    Star players also sell seats/merchandise....Some players are ready for the NHL right away.
     
  10. ClosetOilersFan

    ClosetOilersFan Registered User

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    I'm with Resolute on this one.

    By drafting you get access to a young star for five-seven years, generally at compensation that is far below what you'd be dishing out when they're 25 or 27 [depending on age when signed for the NHL]. If they were UFA's from the get go, guys like Crosby would be earning way more, way faster.

    The Nash signing is the exception, remember that. Very few rookies make this kinda money on their second signing... lol.

    The owners won almost everything, the players won on free agency and arbitration - I think it's only fair.

    but yes, there is definitely still a point in drafting... It's having a good set of young guys for 5-7 years that gives the strong teams an edge when they have a solid set of verterns with them. Look at Colorado several years ago...

    Trick: Just continue investing in scouting and always have decent prospects. One of the most effective tools under the new CBA is having intelligent management.
     
  11. PeterSidorkiewicz

    PeterSidorkiewicz HFWF Tourney Undisputed Champion

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    Well this is why from the beginning my ideal CBA would have been something like the NBA's. Where the NBA rewards teams for drafting and keeping their drafted players and penalises teams who go through free agency. But of course the CBA is hard cap style, so were gonna see NFL type movement, which we are beginning to see already. Basically the other poster is right, the players had to win something and that is a younger UFA status, it sucks for the fans and being an Ottawa fan in particular with Hossa now, but we all gotta learn to deal I guess.
     
  12. Resolute

    Resolute Registered User

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    Why are you assuming the player will leave?
     
  13. Puckclektr

    Puckclektr Registered User

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    Why wouldn't I? There is a great chance..
     
  14. MojoJojo

    MojoJojo Registered User

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    So dont play them as 18 year olds, keep them until they are 27 instead.

    The point of the draft is to bring in good, CHEAP, young players. Without those, you would never be able to sign enough free agents to build a contender within the limitations of a cap. You could argue that while lowering the age of free agency reduces their value, drafted players are more valuable as a way of keeping costs down under the cap.
     
  15. CanuckistanFlyerfan

    CanuckistanFlyerfan Registered User

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    Make the player happy to be there.If he is,he'll stay.Do you think it's fair for a team that sucks every year,trades away and underpays it's good players to pick 1st every year?
     
  16. ej_pens

    ej_pens Registered User

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    You can reach a civilized deal with a young player that would make him feel welcomed without giving him whatever he wants. All MaLean did was make it that much harder for him to refuse to pay other players according to the rate he set with Nash.

    Players have very short memories when you wave a bunch of money in their face.
     
  17. PeterTheGr8

    PeterTheGr8 SavoringEveryMoment

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    :clap:

    Great positive response! It's refreshing to hear clear, upbeat thinking in a sports fan.
     
  18. Cawz

    Cawz Registered User

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    Well, strictly statistical speaking, Gretzky's best seasons were his 3rd, 5th, 6th and 7th seasons in the NHL. His 7th season, he got his most points, his 5th season he had his best ppg.

    Lemieux's best seasons were his 4th and 5th seasons in the NHL (total points wise).

    Food for thought.
     
  19. FangFingers

    FangFingers Registered User

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    I have to agree with the earlier post.

    There simply is no good reason for players to leave teams like Pittsburgh or Calgary anymore.

    Toronto and New York cannot throw wads of cash at a guy.

    Sure, Crosby at 25 might be a UFA. But why would he leave Pittsburgh. It wont be because the Pens couldnt offer him more cash.

    Most of the movement this offseason was due to the fact that you had 2 years worth of contracts expire (twice the # of FA), and teams either had to get under a cap or spend to get near the cap.

    After this off-season, I think you'll see alot less movement, especially as the GM's learn to work within the framework of the new CBA.

    I think its going to be alot harder to assemble a team through free agency than you think.
     
  20. dolfanar

    dolfanar Registered User

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    I was thinking the same thing. A couple more (best 7 seasons):

    Wayne Gretzky, 6th, 8th, 4th, 7th, 5th, 9th, 10th.
    Mario Lemieux, 5th, 9th, 11th, 4th, 6th, 8th, 2nd.
    Ray Bourque, 5th, 8th, 12th, 15th, 6th, 11th, 14th.
    Paul Coffey, 6th, 4th, 5th, 9th, 10th, 3rd, 11th.
    Steve Yzerman, 6th, 10th, 7th, 5th, 8th, 11th, 13th.
    Mark Messier, 11th, 9th, 8th, 4th, 14th, 5th, 17th.


    I think that under the current environment we will gradually see fewer 18 year old rookies, to the point where only phenoms like Sid the kid make the league @ 18. I hope we don't see defensemen make the league at 18, and they should be rare even at 19, and goalies just shouldn't be making the league under 20... ever.

    Most forwards hit their peak around their 4th year, so having them around for 7 isn't such a bad deal, but defensemen and goalies are a completely different matter. I think we will see the value of defensemen and goalies fall in the draft since they almost assuredly will hit their prime at or near free agency (the only reason btw that I hated the Carey Price Habs pick). And ofcourse there will always be exceptions (Paul Coffey and Mark Messier above)
     
  21. Ford Prefect

    Ford Prefect Registered User

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    New word of the day - PARITY

    par·i·ty1 Audio pronunciation of "parity" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pr-t)
    n. pl. par·i·ties

    1. Equality, as in amount, status, or value.
    2. Functional equivalence, as in the weaponry or military strength of adversaries

    (credit: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=parity)

    No longer will any team be able to stock an entire teams of stars (like Detroit and Colorado) to the detriment of a team who has none. The cap will mean that every team will have the opportunity to have a superstar in its market. In order to get the cap, the owners had to give a little and reducing the age of free agency only seems fitting. This bodes quite well for the marketing of the NHL. Take a team like Carolina, for instance. They've struggled to sell tickets and had little luck with corporate support (I believe that the naming rights for their arena was sold to a Canadian bank). Now they'll have the opportunity to sign a Thornton or a Heatly and generate some interest in the team. I like the idea.
     
  22. Douggy

    Douggy Registered User

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    Why shouldn't a team be able to stock up using draft picks or smart trading??

    Ottawa sucked for a long time, so that helped them get high draft picks, and good players. Then they made some smart draft picks (Hossa, Havlat) and some smart trades (Spezza, Chara).

    Now the core of this team will likely have to be dismantled within the next 3-4 years when the good players hit UFA age. Why?? What did they do wrong?
     
  23. Puckclektr

    Puckclektr Registered User

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    Exactly my point. Now a team that drafted horribly can come in and take whoever they want. So what is the point of drafting now? :dunno:
     
  24. Douggy

    Douggy Registered User

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    On the other hand, if a team like Ottawa knows that say after this year they're going to lose Alfredsson, they can trade him for someone lesser and some picks and just keep the pipeline comming.

    Kinda like the Yashin for Spezza/Chara trade.

    It seems to work for the Oakland Athletics in Baseball. :)
     
  25. EventHorizon

    EventHorizon Bring Back Ties!

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    My question is, what was the point of drafting before if the small market teams worked pretty much as feeder clubs to the big market teams? At least now, when a player reaches free agency his current team has as much of a chance to sign him as anyone else.
     
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