Hurricanes sale formally closed, Tom Dundon now majority owner

[powerstuck]

I think you guys got some great news with this change of power in Carolina.

One question I have tho...up until now, my impression (and I am sure I wasn't the only one) was that Karmanos has holding 80% (just guessing) of shares of the Canes, making him in the control. In other words there were a few minor investors but nothing major.

With the way things developed, everywhere I look, I see that Dundon bought 52% of the Canes and Karmanos keeps 48%, which totals to 100%.

What happened to the previously mentioned minority owners ?

 

[powerstuck]

On this day 12/07/2017 we can officially put these Hurricane to Quebec city rumors to an end. It's over with QC, you are not getting the hurricanes.

Thank you.

For what it's worth, I personally never wanted to do anything with your Hurricanes...because they were Whalers in their history.

But I can bet you one thing, if you were in the situation in which we are (have arena, have passion for hockey, no team), you too would be looking and potential relocation candidates so you can enjoy this great sport that unites us all.

 

[MinJaBen]

I think you guys got some great news with this change of power in Carolina.

One question I have tho...up until now, my impression (and I am sure I wasn't the only one) was that Karmanos has holding 80% (just guessing) of shares of the Canes, making him in the control. In other words there were a few minor investors but nothing major.

With the way things developed, everywhere I look, I see that Dundon bought 52% of the Canes and Karmanos keeps 48%, which totals to 100%.

What happened to the previously mentioned minority owners ?

It is only a guess on my part, but they may have either seen the opportunity to cash out given the rise in valuation of the team from when they bought their share, or they may have had a clause in their ownership that stated upon a sale, the new owners had the right to buy them out. My guess is the latter of the two as I doubt all of them would have come to the sell decision simultaneously, but it is just a guess.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Raiders maybe.

This obsessive nature and bitterness that some have towards certain NHL teams and where they should be relocated to is amazing. It's got to be unhealthy.

I don't see this kind of mindset from most NBA/MLB/NFL fans.

It happens in the other leagues. People slam Atlanta and Miami all the time. People say jacksonville shouldnt have an NFL team.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

I think you guys got some great news with this change of power in Carolina.

One question I have tho...up until now, my impression (and I am sure I wasn't the only one) was that Karmanos has holding 80% (just guessing) of shares of the Canes, making him in the control. In other words there were a few minor investors but nothing major.

With the way things developed, everywhere I look, I see that Dundon bought 52% of the Canes and Karmanos keeps 48%, which totals to 100%.

What happened to the previously mentioned minority owners ?

Ostensibly they either A) got bought out or B) Their stakes are bound in Karmanos's 48%. If it's A) I wouldn't be surprised to see some of the bigger fish investors (Kahn and Goodmon, especially) reinvest.

 

[CorbeauNoir]

It happens in the other leagues. People slam Atlanta and Miami all the time. People say jacksonville shouldnt have an NFL team.

It's the equivalent of saying Atlanta or Miami should be moved to Boise, Idaho though.

 

[GoldiFox]

What an amazing development for Canes fans. We really get everything we dreamed for. A new Billionaire owner to dump money into the team. Like an endless fountain of cash and happiness for the people of Raleigh. What a great day.

Think of the possibilities. The Canes could add Tavares and Karlsson to their current team at $10 million a piece without making Cap moves. Tons of money and flexibility. What a boon.

 

[Flukeshot]

Assuming this is $500M valuation for the ENTIRE franchise and not his payment price for X% of it?

 

[gstommylee]

Assuming this is $500M valuation for the ENTIRE franchise and not his payment price for X% of it?

I believe that's the case. He's only paying 52% of the full variation now then in a few years has the option to buy and pay the rest of the amount.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I watch a lot of hockey games. If the Rangers aren't playing, I will usually flip around betweeen 2-3 different games every night. Maybe you get a special camera in your package, but when I watch games, the cameras are focused on the ice and I am not really concerned with how many people are in the arena if I am watching on tv. I have also been to many games. Most with packed houses. A few times with the place 1/2 empty. There are benefits when it is 1/2 empty. Short bathroom lines, much easier getting in and out of the parking lot, etc.

I get the special camera that focuses on the crowd.

 

[Svechhammer]

I believe that's the case. He's only paying 52% of the full variation now then in a few years has the option to buy and pay the rest of the amount.

Correct.

Current sale is for 52% of a valuation at $460m ($239.2m)
Within 3 years, Dundon can buy out the remaining 48% at a franchise valuation of $550m ($264m)

Overall franchise sale price - $503.2m

 

[blueandgoldguy]

Doesn't the purchase of a portion of this team include some portion of its debt as well?

 

[blueandgoldguy]

Dundon could finance and build himself an arena in Raleigh, or even the local government could build a new arena with a sweetheart lease for 50 years, and Canadian media would still be writing about potential relocation so you aren't saying much.

We need to keep in mind the lease (with 7 years remaining?) and the agreement to not move the team for the next 7 years. This is why there will always be whispers of relocation - there is medium-long term stability with this purchase, not necessarily a long term guarantee (10 - 20 years?) the team will remain in its current location.

 

[BattleBorn]

There's only whispers for as long as there's a place for them to go that wants a team.

With all due respect to Quebec, I don't think you purchase a team with the 7-10 year plan of going there. If/when Seattle and Houston are covered, there's only a few other places with the means and desire. Toronto/Hamilton, perhaps Virginia Beach/Norfolk if they figure out their arena situation, San Antonio (I guess.)

Places like Kansas City will be deep into the current lifespan of an arena, so perhaps they can work something out with a portion of arena ownership in trade for renovations.

The well is kind of drying up for the next decade unless Arizona figures out an arena and Houston doesn't get a team.

 

[CandyCanes]

We need to keep in mind the lease (with 7 years remaining?) and the agreement to not move the team for the next 7 years. This is why there will always be whispers of relocation - there is medium-long term stability with this purchase, not necessarily a long term guarantee (10 - 20 years?) the team will remain in its current location.

There's been talks of a major upgrade project to PNC Arena, but has been looming due to the sale of the team. So there's also been "whispers" that Dundon is already planning on getting involved with Gale Force Holdings, the company that manages the arena and these potential upgrades.

The chairman of Gale Force, Thomas McCormick, spoke previously with Dundon before the sale was official and said this.

"If he indeed acquires the team, it will be of great benefit to the arena and the whole region,” McCormick said afterward.

If Dundon is going to invest into the arena in Raleigh like that quote basically hinting at, why would he waste that money and even consider moving the team when that 7 year lease it over? Investing into the stadium is something you do when you believe you're keeping this team in Raleigh long term.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

There's been talks of a major upgrade project to PNC Arena, but has been looming due to the sale of the team. So there's also been "whispers" that Dundon is already planning on getting involved with Gale Force Holdings, the company that manages the arena and these potential upgrades.

The chairman of Gale Force, Thomas McCormick, spoke previously with Dundon before the sale was official and said this.

"If he indeed acquires the team, it will be of great benefit to the arena and the whole region,” McCormick said afterward.

If Dundon is going to invest into the arena in Raleigh like that quote basically hinting at, why would he waste that money and even consider moving the team when that 7 year lease it over? Investing into the stadium is something you do when you believe you're keeping this team in Raleigh long term.

If he is investing significant money in the arena I agree with you.

 

[powerstuck]

We need to keep in mind the lease (with 7 years remaining?) and the agreement to not move the team for the next 7 years. This is why there will always be whispers of relocation - there is medium-long term stability with this purchase, not necessarily a long term guarantee (10 - 20 years?) the team will remain in its current location.

7 year clause is the standard NHL business requirement.
It is not new nor does it have any link what so ever to the Lease of PNC (which expires in 7 years).

Heck, even Foley has a 7 year no movement clause for the VGK.

 

[MNNumbers]

There's been talks of a major upgrade project to PNC Arena, but has been looming due to the sale of the team. So there's also been "whispers" that Dundon is already planning on getting involved with Gale Force Holdings, the company that manages the arena and these potential upgrades.

The chairman of Gale Force, Thomas McCormick, spoke previously with Dundon before the sale was official and said this.

"If he indeed acquires the team, it will be of great benefit to the arena and the whole region,” McCormick said afterward.

If Dundon is going to invest into the arena in Raleigh like that quote basically hinting at, why would he waste that money and even consider moving the team when that 7 year lease it over? Investing into the stadium is something you do when you believe you're keeping this team in Raleigh long term.

I thought that GFH was an arm of the team, and that the team and GFH would have to be sold together, because the lease on PNC requires that the team owner also be arena manager.

Do I have that wrong?

 

[Rob]

What an amazing development for Canes fans. We really get everything we dreamed for. A new Billionaire owner to dump money into the team. Like an endless fountain of cash and happiness for the people of Raleigh. What a great day.

Think of the possibilities. The Canes could add Tavares and Karlsson to their current team at $10 million a piece without making Cap moves. Tons of money and flexibility. What a boon.

How do you know for sure that the teams payroll will increase?

 

[Roboturner913]

LOL 10 percent stake in one business was 900 million, this guy is friggin loaded

How do you know for sure that the teams payroll will increase?

Guy with a couple billion (at least, probably more) purchases a sports team and then doesn't spend to try and be competitive?

 

[cptjeff]

LOL 10 percent stake in one business was 900 million, this guy is friggin loaded

Is that the business where he got 700m of his buyout in cash? He's loaded and liquid. Karmanos has never had much liquidity since he was pushed out of Compuware.

 

[Negan4Coach]

For what it's worth, I personally never wanted to do anything with your Hurricanes...because they were Whalers in their history.

But I can bet you one thing, if you were in the situation in which we are (have arena, have passion for hockey, no team), you too would be looking and potential relocation candidates so you can enjoy this great sport that unites us all.

Look, you guys clearly should have a team. I just don't get why the old one left if it was that great. You should get that one back. And never mind the Whalers- that was a dumb idea in a crappy town like Hartford anyway, surrounded by 4 other teams within a 2 hour drive...

 

[Gnashville]

This obsessive nature and bitterness that some have towards certain NHL teams and where they should be relocated to is amazing. It's got to be unhealthy.

I don't see this kind of mindset from most NBA/MLB/NFL fans.

It is media driven from what I have seen. The media plays up Bettman as some supervillan and the Southern US markets as a bunch of fan less teams in cities that never even wanted them, stealing Revenue from Canadian fans that have to pay outrageous prices to support those empty arenas.
For some reason People in Toronto celebrated Winnipeg getting a team as if it's some national holiday. A freaking business moving was celebrated because one of Bettman's teams was moved "home". (MOD)

 

[GoldiFox]

How do you know for sure that the teams payroll will increase?

You think a Billionaire bought an NHL team as a hobby to see it toil in mediocrity as Cap Floor team?

Occam's Razor. Karmanos was a total hands-off dud living on a legacy and old, illiquid money. The new Billionaire will spend the money to take the team to the next level. Literally one of Dundon's first quote on the team was "I'm ready to get to work".

Usually a Billionaire buying a team wouldn't lead to so much delusion. Because it is in a market marked as a struggling franchise, all of a sudden people try to draw meaning from the void. Pretty transparent.

 

[Killion]

It is media driven from what I have seen. The media plays up Bettman as some supervillan and the Southern US markets as a bunch of fan less teams in cities that never even wanted them....

Some in the Canadian media do, absolutely, and its disgusting.... But dont paint fans with the same broad brush Gnash. Yes, some do, a small minority, they buy that crap but on the whole, no. Canadian media, some, particularly in Toronto where its highly competitive, they "say stuff", Neanderthal stuff, idiocy, purely click bait. Your wildly generalizing... Its like assuming everyone in Nashville wears cowboy boots, drives a pickup & all you'll hear down there is C&W when in fact... one of the most radical things you can do in Nashville is play C&W & if you wanna buy cowboy boots, be prepared to shell out some serious coin for high-end designer. People listen to all kinds of music, generally dont wear ####kickers or nosepickers, drive cars just like everybody else.