Prospect Info: Hurricanes Prospect Info and Discussion - Part VII - Cliff Pu and other shit

[emptyNedder]

I’d love to see a line in Clt this year of Saarela-Pu-Gauthier.

The Checkers should have at least three really good lines this year. Presuming Zykov and Foegele both make it in Raleigh:

Wallmark, Kuokkanen, Saarela, Roy, Maenalanen, Pu, Gauthier, Geekie, Shilkey, McKegg, Poturalski, and Bishop.

 

[NotOpie]

The Checkers should have at least three really good lines this year. Presuming Zykov and Foegele both make it in Raleigh:

Wallmark, Kuokkanen, Saarela, Roy, Maenalanen, Pu, Gauthier, Geekie, Shilkey, McKegg, Poturalski, and Bishop.

Not saying I have any inside info or anything, but my guess at the lines in Raleigh is:

Zykov/Aho/Teravainen
McGinn/Staal/Svechnikov
Ferland/Necas/Williams
DiGiuseppe/Rask/Martinook

Sure that middle 6 could easily be re-arranged, but the point is, Foegele is going to have to beat out somebody (and I think his best shot is beating out PDG). Put him on a line w/Necas and Williams and they'd be draggin' JWilly up and down the ice, but that could be super interesting....all that speed to burn.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Maybe not this year, but down the road how about Foegele-Necas-Svechnikov. Speed galore and a good mix of skill and size.

I really don’t see Svechnikov starting the year on Staals line. Staal is going to go up against top competition with less o-zone starts. Don’t put a rookie in that spot

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

While Carolina may benefit from having a player with his tools on the 4th line now, the organization may be better off giving him a chance to further develop offensively in Charlotte. Off all of the B forward prospects, he’s the one that I’d love to see pan out the most. A LW with the speed to push back the defense and the size to get to the net is a perfect 3rd wheel stylistically for either the Finns (with Aho at center) or Necas/Svechnikov.

 

[spockBokk]

Zykov/Aho/Teravainen
McGinn/Staal/Svechnikov
Ferland/Necas/Williams
DiGiuseppe/Rask/Martinook

I’d also flip flop Svechnikov and Williams. I still not sold on Aho as a full time C, especially now with Skinner gone. With Aho at C, our top LW is Ferland, not good.

Barring a trade for another top 6 guy, this is how I’d line them up:

Aho-Staal-TT
McGinn-Rask-Williams
Ferland-Necas-Svechnikov
Foegele-Martinook-Zykov/Maenalanen/Random Checker

With Aho at C, I like your original lines, with the Williams and Svechnikov changes, and I’d sub PDG for Foegele. He seemed to do just fine on the 4th line in Charlotte last year while also killing penalties.

 

[CandyCanes]

I’d also flip flop Svechnikov and Williams. I still not sold on Aho as a full time C, especially now with Skinner gone. With Aho at C, our top LW is Ferland, not good.

Barring a trade for another top 6 guy, this is how I’d line them up:

Aho-Staal-TT
McGinn-Rask-Williams
Ferland-Necas-Svechnikov
Foegele-Martinook-Zykov/Maenalanen/Random Checker

With Aho at C, I like your original lines, with the Williams and Svechnikov changes, and I’d sub PDG for Foegele. He seemed to do just fine on the 4th line in Charlotte last year while also killing penalties.

That 2nd line might be the worst 2nd line in the NHL if that somehow ends up being our 2nd line.

 

[Vagrant]

Here’s an interesting article on Pu:



Hopefully, he can hit his “potential” as a 2/3C. His skating seems to be his greatest strength. I’d love to see a line in Clt this year of Saarela-Pu-Gauthier.

hoping to see pu-brown-wallmark

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

That 2nd line might be the worst 2nd line in the NHL if that somehow ends up being our 2nd line.

If you look strictly at scoring, then they'd be near the bottom, but probably not the worst (although a lot depends on if McGinn takes another step). If you look at the overall game and what they bring on both sides of the ice, the competition they'd face, etc...they move up in the rankings IMO.

I think people get too caught up in line designations. First, the Canes don't have a legit top line C right now, so they really have more like a 2A, 2B, 2C type line that will likely be used differently based on situations and matchups. Staal's line, no matter who is on it, will likely face the toughest competition. Aho's line (if he's not on Staal's) will probably be the all situations line. The rookies will probably get more offensive zone starts against weaker competition. For instance, last year, Jeff Skinner, Sebastian Aho, and Justin Williams were the top 3 forwards for EV TOI in Carolina, yet the 3 rarely played together and Skinner, who has the most EV TOI had 1197 minutes and Lindholm, who was #6 had 1128. Second, the chances of any line sticking together for more than a dozen or so games until mid season is pretty remote so no matter what they start with, they more than likely won't end with.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

hoping to see pu-brown-wallmark

Shouldn't that be Brown-Pu on the Wallmark line?

 

[NotOpie]

Maybe not this year, but down the road how about Foegele-Necas-Svechnikov. Speed galore and a good mix of skill and size.

I really don’t see Svechnikov starting the year on Staals line. Staal is going to go up against top competition with less o-zone starts. Don’t put a rookie in that spot

Yeah, I could easily see the FNS line down the road. One of the reasons that I believe Roddy will consider Svechnikov on Staal's line is that he's allegedly very responsible defensively and plays a very heavy game. While he's a rookie and will make mistakes, I anticipate that he might be harder to play against from both a skill and physicality standpoint. I also like McGinn on a line w/Svech as he's more skilled than some give him credit for and also has good vision.

That said, I certainly understand your point and expect Staal's line to get the toughest match ups....so they might now want to throw a rookie out there.

I’d also flip flop Svechnikov and Williams. I still not sold on Aho as a full time C, especially now with Skinner gone. With Aho at C, our top LW is Ferland, not good.

Barring a trade for another top 6 guy, this is how I’d line them up:

Aho-Staal-TT
McGinn-Rask-Williams
Ferland-Necas-Svechnikov
Foegele-Martinook-Zykov/Maenalanen/Random Checker

With Aho at C, I like your original lines, with the Williams and Svechnikov changes, and I’d sub PDG for Foegele. He seemed to do just fine on the 4th line in Charlotte last year while also killing penalties.

My gut tells me that you'll see JWilly w/Necas. There's no other reason except that I've got a feeling they'll want to maximize the veteran teacher thing with young Martin.

Also, I expect a bounce back year for Rask, even if he's on the 4th line. He'll get a good bit of power play time and likely ends up moving around the line up throughout the year. I think they're going to give him a good chance to redeem himself.

I think people get too caught up in line designations. First, the Canes don't have a legit top line C right now, so they really have more like a 2A, 2B, 2C type line that will likely be used differently based on situations and matchups. Staal's line, no matter who is on it, will likely face the toughest competition.

Agree totally w/the multiple 2nd lines concept for the Canes this year. Without a clearcut 1C it seems inevitable. They may be more inclined to attempt to roll 4 true scoring lines, but that would presuppose that guys like Martinook, PDG, potentially Foegele, and/or Ferland have offensive potential to be tapped. Certainly the latter two seem to fit that bill. The former two, well, it's yet to be seen.

 

[tarheelhockey]

My gut tells me that you'll see JWilly w/Necas. There's no other reason except that I've got a feeling they'll want to maximize the veteran teacher thing with young Martin.

They would also be a good stylistic fit, I think. Williams is a smart player who can take advantage of Necas’ playmaking and find the open space he creates. The only awkward thing is they’re both RHS which makes the passing angles a little more challenging, but I still think they’d do pretty well together.

 

[MinJaBen]

hoping to see pu-brown-wallmark

Done.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Williams is slow and a turn-over machine. Are we sure we want him on a line with our fastest player who happens to be a rookie?

I guess maybe the veteran presence will help.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Williams is slow and a turn-over machine. Are we sure we want him on a line with our fastest player who happens to be a rookie?

I guess maybe the veteran presence will help.

Well the other option is to have the slow, turnover machine on the Staal line facing top competition. I’m not sure where he belongs to be honest.

 

[MinJaBen]

I’m not sure where he belongs to be honest.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

Fishin in Ontario?

 

[Unsustainable]

Pu is better off at center

I’d see:

Brown - Pu - Wallmark

 

[tarheelhockey]

Williams is fine as a trailing winger. Give Necas a quicker option at LW (Teuvo?) and you’ll see Williams get a lot of chances in the slot after the D gets pushed back.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Williams is fine as a trailing winger. Give Necas a quicker option at LW (Teuvo?) and you’ll see Williams get a lot of chances in the slot after the D gets pushed back.

Ah, that makes sense. Necas and the other forward get in deep, then Williams trails, gets the puck, turns it over and leads to a 3-2 the other way. Good thing we have stellar goaltending which will bail us out!

 

[GoldiFox]

Ah, that makes sense. Necas and the other forward get in deep, then Williams trails, gets the puck, turns it over and leads to a 3-2 the other way. Good thing we have stellar goaltending which will bail us out!

This was my first thought too. Williams was worse than Skinner with brain-dead turnovers in the neutral zone and he doesn't have the recovery speed to make up for his regular mistakes as a trailing forward. I'd rather see Williams with Staal and let the two utilize their experience to play a suffocating possession game against top competition. Opens up the offensive side for Aho + Svechnikov lines.

 

[SaskCanesFan]

No to Svech with JStaal. Don't Lindholm the kid and try to turn him into a grinder taking on the tough matchups. Let him create offense and develop those skills.

 

[A Star is Burns]

It doesn't really matter much, as lines change all the time, but I assume they'll give Necas and Svechnikov a chance to work together a lot. They seemed to be big on them working together and getting chemistry at all the prospect stuff.

 

[NotOpie]

Williams is slow and a turn-over machine. Are we sure we want him on a line with our fastest player who happens to be a rookie?

I guess maybe the veteran presence will help.

Ah, that makes sense. Necas and the other forward get in deep, then Williams trails, gets the puck, turns it over and leads to a 3-2 the other way. Good thing we have stellar goaltending which will bail us out!

This was my first thought too. Williams was worse than Skinner with brain-dead turnovers in the neutral zone.

I believe you guys are conflating one year's worth of admittedly bad turnovers with a career's worth. Last season JWilly had 85 giveaways (best proxy I could find for turnovers). That's more than 1 per game. However, the 3 years prior to that he had 44, 48, 57, so there's a bit of recency bias. Don't get me wrong, for as long as they've been keeping the stat, Williams has about a 56 giveaway per 82 games metric. Not great, but not the worst ever. The key thing is that JWilly doesn't pair this stat with a good takeaway number.

My point is that he's susceptible to turnovers, but last year was a bit of an anomaly in how awful he actually was.

 

[GoldiFox]

I believe you guys are conflating one year's worth of admittedly bad turnovers with a career's worth. Last season JWilly had 85 giveaways (best proxy I could find for turnovers). That's more than 1 per game. However, the 3 years prior to that he had 44, 48, 57, so there's a bit of recency bias. Don't get me wrong, for as long as they've been keeping the stat, Williams has about a 56 giveaway per 82 games metric. Not great, but not the worst ever. The key thing is that JWilly doesn't pair this stat with a good takeaway number.

My point is that he's susceptible to turnovers, but last year was a bit of an anomaly in how awful he actually was.

I only have my own eyes and one year of play to go on. I didn't watch Williams enough on other teams to compare at this stage of his career.

Williams was significantly worse last year than any other Cane in recent history:

(Past 3 years aggregated):

Player	Giveaways/60 mins
Williams	3.75
Frk	3.61
Kuokkanen	2.71
Skinner	2.48
Stempniak	2.45
Aho	2.34
Ryan	2.22
Staal	1.85
McGinn	1.50

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Williams up in the "who let this rookie on the ice before he was NHL-ready?"-level of turnovers. 50% more turnovers than Jeff Skinner level of turnovers.

I hope it was just an outlier year as you state. Not quite the on-ice accountability one wants to see from a Captain.

 

[bleedgreen]

Yeah the William’s turnover thing is overblown. He’s always been a very solid two way guy, it’s literally his calling card. One season in a new role with a crap team expecting big things from him. He had a few moments that were flat out bad luck in big moments in games that really blew up, and for some reason those plays end up defining him last season.

I don’t remotely consider him a hindrance or someone who needs to be sheltered. Brindy is probably going to name him captain, and obviously doesn’t view him that way. I’d assume the team has a 180 degree different take on jwill than many around here do.

He also turned the puck over many times trying to make a play happen creatively with a pass that was the right play with good execution that just didn’t work. That’s not a turnover to me, that wasn’t a dangle or a cough up. A guy driving the net getting rewarded with a pass he doesn’t catch or bounces over his stick, or the dman lifts the stick and jwill has a turnover that’s the right play. That seemed to happen frequently as he has some of the best vision on the team. He tried plays others wouldn’t. I wouldn’t change a thing. Unless that’s not how they are counted.

I would really like to see all these turnovers.